Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Madame]

All valid points but I don't think anyone here will agree with you. Davids is a mom and pop kind of operation, small, simple office space not in a high rent building. I think I read they have about 30 employess.
I think I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He is trying to do something to help all parties. He could have just walked away, declared bankruptcy and left us all hanging. I don't know if his solution is the best, its probably the best he could come up with and stay in business. There probably needs to be some compromise on all sides, but I don't know what that looks like.

It’s not Mom & Pop. Bankruptcy would probably help renters with their chargebacks. It is possible that the bankruptcy of the business would lead to personal bankruptcy as well due to Canadian law. He’s trying to save himself.

 

[LawrenceFamily]

Posters here have made a similar case (i.e., that owners are responsible for the closures, even if indirectly. In the end, that may very well be how this all pans out. But the fact that he is flat out telling owners now that they are, essentially in breach of the contract because "they" cancelled the reservation indicates that he may be getting desperate and may start playing hardball to get all of "his" money back from owners.


Survival instinct. Every penny he has (not to mention many he's already spent) is on the line.

You say that but last week we rented points with them for next February - the points went live one day, the agreement was secured the next day and I had received 70 of the money in my account the next day.

If money was a problem, surely they wouldn't have passed me the 70% of my agreement so quickly?

I'm concerned with what im reading on here but my experience has been pretty positive so far. I just hope the hotels are open by February 2021! Haha.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

All valid points but I don't think anyone here will agree with you. Davids is a mom and pop kind of operation, small, simple office space not in a high rent building. I think I read they have about 30 employess.
I think I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He is trying to do something to help all parties. He could have just walked away, declared bankruptcy and left us all hanging. I don't know if his solution is the best, its probably the best he could come up with and stay in business. There probably needs to be some compromise on all sides, but I don't know what that looks like.

Many of us on both sides did attempt to give the benefit of the doubt but the way this has been handled has been frustrating at best. Eventually people are going to put their own best interests first.

I bet being communicative and open could have bought them some goodwill and faith. And of course there are still a number of people who are happy with the credit.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

If money was a problem, surely they wouldn't have passed me the 70% of my agreement so quickly?

I was alluding to what Madame also referred to above... that he is now also facing personal bankruptcy due to the way his company is set up. My comment about money he's already spent was a bit of a jab about his somewhat extravagant vacations that were posted all over social media.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

LOL! They are literally reading through this thread and throwing our suppositions at us . They are scrambling to try to save the business and destroying it with their one-size-fits-all ridiculous voucher scheme.

Why in the world are they not looking at which situations are salvageable (eg owner can return funds with points still usable, or owners who can rebook their renter)??? Dealing with those, then seeing which situations are a write off and making renters whole themselves??? They’re all over the map!!! And they’ve had a month to start to sort this out

Well, he last logged in on a Wednesday morning. He and his minions have been regulars here.


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[momincolorado]

Just curious, if this was to happen with points rented from your friend, and David was not involved at all, how would you have worked things out?

For my reservation, David's used June 2018 use year points that have already been banked into the 2019 use year and will exp on May 31, 2020. Not something I would expect my friend would do. Nevertheless, in the event of resorts closure and assuming that I would find myself in this situation, I would propose to split the losses between us. In this case, in two separate e-mails to David's, I have specifically suggested seeing if a compromise could be worked out among the 3 parties. David's was not interested and kept pushing the voucher idea instead. It now appears he is also putting pressure on the owners (at least some owners) for the 70% arguing contract frustration etc. I have no way of knowing who, at this point, has the 70%. Is it the still owner or did the money go back to David's? Either way, it's clear that David's has a cash flow problem so I seriously question the value of the so-called credit. This leaves chargeback as the only viable option.

 

[Sandisw]

You say that but last week we rented points with them for next February - the points went live one day, the agreement was secured the next day and I had received 70 of the money in my account the next day.

If money was a problem, surely they wouldn't have passed me the 70% of my agreement so quickly?

I'm concerned with what im reading on here but my experience has been pretty positive so far. I just hope the hotels are open by February 2021! Haha.

The money you got paid came from a new renter. So, he had to send you that as had he not, he would have had to refund the renter right away, as you would have canceled the reservation.

 

[Dracula]

For my reservation, David's used June 2018 use year points that have already been banked into the 2019 use year and will exp on May 31, 2020. Not something I would expect my friend would do. Nevertheless, in the event of resorts closure and assuming that I would find myself in this situation, I would propose to split the losses between us. In this case, in two separate e-mails to David's, I have specifically suggested seeing if a compromise could be worked out among the 3 parties. David's was not interested and kept pushing the voucher idea instead. It now appears he is also putting pressure on the owners (at least some owners) for the 70% arguing contract frustration etc. I have no way of knowing who, at this point, has the 70%. Is it the still owner or did the money go back to David's? Either way, it's clear that David's has a cash flow problem so I seriously question the value of the so-called credit. This leaves chargeback as the only viable option.

Thank you for the answer. I am really interested how these 2-party transactions work out, especially between friends, and especially with expiring points. Assuming the price of the “friendly“ point was $16, do you think your friend would have refunded $8, or maybe $4 (allocating the first $8 to the annual fees, then splitting the remaining $8)?

 

[starry_solo]

For owners who have been paid by David's (through PayPal), look up your transaction history with PayPal and see what it shows up as.,...family/friends or goods/services.

NOTE: If David's does go the PayPal dispute route, he is going to expose his account to PayPal as violating the user agreement and it will likely get frozen.....

 

[lawboy2001]

The plot thickens... does David's combined points from multiple owners? I don't see how that could be possible because the renter would have two separate reservations and would possibly have to change rooms (would be hard to link two completely different reservations). Maybe they are co-owners of the same DVC membership?

No. The two owners on that renters contract is simply because they are the two owners of the DVC contact. David's doesn't commingle points.

I assume your DH is looking at the owner's contract. The renter's contract clearly states that the renter will be due a refund if accommodation is not secured, not 30% of the amount!!
"Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Owner, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Owner and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Owner, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $XXXX US Dollars. "

Yes, the poster was referring to the owners' contract. And clearly, under the renters' contract, the renter is due a full refund. So that refund can be funded from the 30% held back from the owners, and the rest....from wherever David can scrounge it up!

 

[McCrae]

For owners who have been paid by David's (through PayPal), look up your transaction history with PayPal and see what it shows up as.,...family/friends or goods/services.

NOTE: If David's does go the PayPal dispute route, he is going to expose his account to PayPal as violating the user agreement and it will likely get frozen.....

In my history it has no description. Other companies do.

 

[lawboy2001]

You say that but last week we rented points with them for next February - the points went live one day, the agreement was secured the next day and I had received 70 of the money in my account the next day.

If money was a problem, surely they wouldn't have passed me the 70% of my agreement so quickly?

I'm concerned with what im reading on here but my experience has been pretty positive so far. I just hope the hotels are open by February 2021! Haha.

I believe David's charges renters 20$ a point now. So if you rented 100 points with him, the renter gave him 2000$ and David's gave you 70% of $15.50 (1085$), meaning that as a result of your transaction, David's now has 900$ in increased cash flow. That's why your transaction was so smooth. Whether it was a good transaction in the end, depends on if David's is around in February to pay you your 30% holdback funds.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

I have been giving David all credit for trying to help fix a bad situation. Not anymore.

Size and mom/pop are not that important to me now because he is really treading close to the area between lying and hoping.

He is a not a company, if he goes bankrupt his house and cars go with.

All valid points but I don't think anyone here will agree with you. Davids is a mom and pop kind of operation, small, simple office space not in a high rent building. I think I read they have about 30 employess.
I think I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He is trying to do something to help all parties. He could have just walked away, declared bankruptcy and left us all hanging. I don't know if his solution is the best, its probably the best he could come up with and stay in business. There probably needs to be some compromise on all sides, but I don't know what that looks like.

 

[Sandisw]

For owners who have been paid by David's (through PayPal), look up your transaction history with PayPal and see what it shows up as.,...family/friends or goods/services.

NOTE: If David's does go the PayPal dispute route, he is going to expose his account to PayPal as violating the user agreement and it will likely get frozen.....

Mine says payment received vs. money received from some of my friends and family. I assume that means its goods and service’s

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

That was great advice and a good starting place. Thank you.
I was paid by Capital Technologies but it even has David's picture from the web site next to it. I do not seeing anything about family/friends or goods/services. I will be grateful for any further assistance.


Capitol Technologies
Nov 29, 2019Payment Received
Loading transaction details for
Capitol Technologies
Nov 29, 2019Payment Received

Paid byCapitol Technologies800-610-5791http://www.dvcrequest.comdavid@dvcrequest.com

For owners who have been paid by David's (through PayPal), look up your transaction history with PayPal and see what it shows up as.,...family/friends or goods/services.

NOTE: If David's does go the PayPal dispute route, he is going to expose his account to PayPal as violating the user agreement and it will likely get frozen.....

 

[cmrdgrs]

Bit strong - I'm not arguing with you at all

But I personally don't think a renter has a case in court to get a full refund based on the agreement they signed.

I think David's will be offering a voucher to save their reputation and business. It's a good will gesture as a way to ensure their customers stay happy and continue to use them in the future.

I have to say I disagree. Just because a contract was drawn and signed by all parties doesn't mean a court might not overturn the agreement and side with the renter (or in this case the Plantiff). I've been in several lawsuits over contracts and have won in court as the Plaintiff.

Contracts are overturned all the time in court. Question is, will anybody sue David's? Probably not.

 

[CraigInPA]

[QUOTE="Sandisw, post: 61796806, member: 217917"
It is a mess for sure, Nothing an owner can do to get that 30% except sue Davids foe it. I think most will just walk away,
[/QUOTE]

...And will never rent points through David's again.

David's has to know that they are killing their supply chain, without which he has no business. Because he is organized as a sole proprietorship, he is likely facing personal bankruptcy so he will say and do whatever he can to get cash back from the owners (whether supported by the contract terms or not).

 

[cmrdgrs]

That was great advice and a good starting place. Thank you.
I was paid by Capital Technologies but it even has David's picture from the web site next to it. I do not seeing anything about family/friends or goods/services. I will be grateful for any further assistance.


Capitol Technologies
Nov 29, 2019Payment Received
Loading transaction details for
Capitol Technologies
Nov 29, 2019Payment Received

Paid byCapitol Technologies800-610-5791http://www.dvcrequest.comdavid@dvcrequest.com

This is interesting. For years DVC owners who rent always wondered how David got around the PayPal restrictions for a timeshare rental. I personally know owners who had their PayPal accts frozen over DVC Rentals. Is it possible that David misrepresented the transaction to PayPal?

 

[JasonV]

From the TICO website:

1. Do I have any protection if the company that issued my travel voucher goes out of business?

If you are unable to redeem a voucher or similar document issued by a TICO-registered travel agency or tour operator for future travel services because the TICO-registered travel agency or tour operator has become bankrupt or insolvent or ceased to carry on business and that failure is related to COVID-19, you can make a claim against the Travel Industry Compensation Fund until March 31, 2022.

Coverage under the Travel Industry Compensation Fund has expanded. If you have redeemed a voucher or similar document but the TICO-registered travel agency or tour operator or airline or cruise line becomes bankrupt or ceases operations prior to travel taking place, and travel services are not provided, you can make a Travel Industry Compensation Fund claim, subject to the provisions of the Regulation.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

[QUOTE="Sandisw, post: 61796806, member: 217917"
It is a mess for sure, Nothing an owner can do to get that 30% except sue Davids foe it. I think most will just walk away,

...And will never rent points through David's again.

David's has to know that they are killing their supply chain, without which he has no business. Because he is organized as a sole proprietorship, he is likely facing personal bankruptcy so he will say and do whatever he can to get cash back from the owners (whether supported by the contract terms or not).
[/QUOTE]

I agree, I think they do know and their actions have all been last resort because they believe they owe renters money and their contracts will not be enough to stop chargebacks.

If they thought their non refundable contracts held up through resort closure, seems like it would be much better for the long term health of the company to allow nothing but rebooking should it work out on a case by case basis, angering some renters but keeping owners happy. I would guess owners are harder to replace, also considering that plenty of potential renters not seeing anything wrong by standing with standing by their non refundable contracts.