Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[McCrae]

Yes but regardless renters have no reservation and owners have most of their money. Let your conscience be your guide.

Or if they have taken out adequate insurance as advised renters would have no losses.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Here is the travel credit email from David:

Thank you for your patience in waiting for our communications.

Below are the Terms and Conditions for the David's Vacation Club Rentals Travel Credit. Once you've had the opportunity to review the information, we look forward to receiving your response and would ask that you please indicate your reply by clicking on a button below.

Terms & Conditions:

1. The Credit will be for the entire value of the original booking, less any compensation already received, and the Credit can only be applied to one subsequent booking. If the value of the Credit exceeds the value of the subsequent booking, the remaining differential in value will not be refunded, nor will it be available for extra's or add-on's such as dining plans or park tickets. If the value of the subsequent booking exceeds the value of the Credit, the guest will be responsible for paying the difference.
2. You may not assign or transfer the Credit or any rights, interests or obligations hereunder. You may not combine this Credit with any other credit or promotional offer.
3. Any Reservation booked using the Credit is FINAL SALE – NO EXCEPTIONS. This includes, but is not limited to, date modification, resale and changes to the Guest names used for the original booking.
4. Credit has no cash value.
5. The Travel Credit will not be reissued if it is lost or stolen. Keep this information in a safe location.
6. Credit is available for use up to 24 months after the date of issue. Credit must be used within 24 months.
7. Credit can be used for any service offered by David's Vacation Club Rentals including but not limited to Point Rentals, Cash Bookings at Disney owned resorts, Cruise Bookings or Adventure by Disney bookings.
8. Credits cannot be applied to Park Tickets, Dining Plans, or insurance plans.
9. In the case of Point Rentals, upon requesting a reservation with your credit code, you will be asked to authorize a new deposit. Once the code has been confirmed, your deposit will be refunded and the reservation process will continue.
10. In the event of a global pandemic, natural disaster, force Majeure or any other event outside the reasonable control of David's Vacation Club Rentals, this Credit remains non-refundable and no modification, cancelations or rebooking will be permitted.
11. David's Vacation Club Rentals does not guarantee the availability of services. The Credit is subject to availability of the selected product at time of booking.
12. No terms and conditions, other than those stated herein, and no agreement or understanding, oral or written, in any way purporting to modify these Terms and Conditions shall be binding.
13. These terms and conditions shall be governed by, and interpreted in accordance with, the laws of the Province of Ontario and the laws of Canada applicable therein.
14. David's Vacation Club Rentals reserves the right to change, add, modify, or eliminate any element of the Credit or any type of service or activity currently available with the Credit.
15. Credit represents full and final satisfaction of any and all obligations set out in the original Rental Agreement and David's Vacation Club Rentals is released from any further rights, obligations or performance of the original Rental Agreement.

Haven’t seen this posted here so thought I would share. Doesn’t seem like David cares about either the renter or owner.

 

[Madame]

Yes but regardless renters have no reservation and owners have most of their money. Let your conscience be your guide.

And when the money is given to the renter & the owner is on the hook to PayPal to refund. Owners might end up with useless points, and DOUBLE loss on monies paid to the renter and David’s. You’re right, you have no stake in this. If you did, I promise you that you would not be advocating return of funds in possible violation of a contract.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes but regardless renters have no reservation and owners have most of their money. Let your conscience be your guide.

It has nothing to do with that, It has to do with an owner putting themselves in a legal position in which they lose,

Now, if Davids was letting owners and renters work it out, then absolutely,

But, saying an owner is somehow at fault for not wanting to violate the terms of a legal contract is just plain wrong,

 

[New Mouse]

Yes but regardless renters have no reservation and owners have most of their money. Let your conscience be your guide.

? Davids owes them their money back. Davids is sitting on 30% so if they feel that bad give back the 30% and go from there. Why is it up to the ownet to make it right when the company they purchased from isnt even doing a base level of support?

 

[cmrdgrs]

That’s what’s really shady! As a renter, I already signed a contract with him that I thought gave me some protection, but now in order to get anything, I have to sign a new contract that is basically s**t? If you accept the voucher, I would still expect the previous contract to still be in effect. How can he change the terms of the agreement in order for you to get what you paid for?

He can change the terms of the agreement only if you agree to let him change the terms of the agreement. By agreeing to this email, you willingly agreed with the broker to change the terms of your previous agreement.

No way in heck I would agree to these new terms. I'd simply file a chargeback and see what happens.

 

[stlrod]

"In the case of Point Rentals, upon requesting a reservation with your credit code, you will be asked to authorize a new deposit. Once the code has been confirmed, your deposit will be refunded and the reservation process will continue. "

Give David's more money to check to see if they can find availability to use the credit? That takes gall!

 

[tubtruck]

Has anyone considered that this once in a lifetime event has, and is, ruining businesses. How about giving David a break and accept the credit. He is otherwise likely to be bankrupt and 30 odd peoples livings will be destroyed.
Over here in the UK, even the government has asked if people could accept credit notes if not immediately desperate for the money, rather than insist on refunds even if legally they are entitled to it, otherwise airlines and very large travel companies and many other companies will go bankrupt causing massive misery to millions.
David never envisaged this, no company or individual did, but things happen in life and this is probably the most devastating world wide event even since the second world war. Lets not all make it worse if we don't need to, whats morally right and whats legally right are not always the same.

 

[Sandisw]

Has anyone considered that this once in a lifetime event has, and is, ruining businesses. How about giving David a break and accept the credit. He is otherwise likely to be bankrupt and 30 odd peoples livings will be destroyed.
Over here in the UK, even the government has asked if people could accept credit notes if not immediately desperate for the money, rather than insist on refunds even if legally they are entitled to it, otherwise airlines and very large travel companies and many other companies will go bankrupt causing massive misery to millions.
David never envisaged this, no company or individual did, but things happen in life and this is probably the most devastating world wide event even since the second world war. Lets not all make it worse if we don't need to, whats morally right and whats legally right are not always the same.

As an owner, though, he could have done both, He could have let all owners who could help reschedule renters do so. He could have given the renter back the money that owners have refunded to him,

He would then have Then been left with only renters and owners whose points were not going to be valid,

Instead, he has come Upwith a scheme that only works for him, and could even makes him more money. For every voucher that goes unused, he pockets that money since he has expected the owner to refund or rerent,

Sorry, but he has done this to himself as far as I am concerned and I will not ever use him again

 

[mort1331]

So Dave is a member of TICO in Ontario. It is a type of travel insurance for travel agents and buyers. ie when airlines go belly up, or cruises,,,or this..it might apply. I have not gone thru the whole website or what can be claimed, but both Dave and the customer might have a route this way.
Just adding this since I have not seen in on this thread yet.
FYI

The Ontario Travel Industry Compensation Fund – Always travel with TICO
The Ontario Travel Industry Compensation Fund is governed by Ontario Regulation 26/05 made under the Travel Industry Act, 2002. The Fund is totally financed by registered travel agents and travel wholesalers in Ontario and is administered by the Travel Industry Council of Ontario (TICO), whose Board of Directors determine whether a claim or a part of one, meets the requirements of the Regulation. The Board is comprised of individuals appointed by the Association of Canadian Travel Agencies, the Canadian Association of Tour Operators, the Ontario Motor Coach Association, the Ontario Government and individuals elected by registered travel agents and wholesalers.
Subject to the Regulation, the Fund provides reimbursement of monies paid to an Ontario registered travel agent for travel services that are not provided due to the bankruptcy or insolvency of an Ontario registrant or an end supplier airline or cruise line, where a reimbursement has not otherwise been provided. As long as the consumer has dealt through a registered Ontario travel retailer, a claim may be filed against the Compensation Fund for the non-provision of travel services.
Claims may also be filed against the Compensation Fund to provide the reimbursement of reasonable expenses incurred (transportation, accommodation and meals) to complete a trip where the travel services have not been provided as the result of the closure of a TICO registered travel retailer or a TICO registered travel wholesaler. Provided that the consumer purchased their original travel services from an Ontario registered travel retailer, trip completion claims may be eligible when the consumer's travel services commenced prior to the failure of the TICO registrant and the consumer is in destination and unable to receive the travel services purchased to complete their travel plans.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Owners do not need to hide behind the agreement with David’s. That is another issue that does not concern the renter. Wish people would do the right thing.

I totally disagree. Owners which have used David’s don’t have any agreement with the renter directly. Owners only have that with David’s.

In this case what is the “right” thing? Owners have only received 70% of the pay but renters have paid 100%. IMO owners and renters could bypass David’s but I would ask that the renter pay the remaining 30% as that is what the owners haven’t received. It’s of no concern to the owner that the renter have already paid 100%.

 

[New Mouse]

Has anyone considered that this once in a lifetime event has, and is, ruining businesses. How about giving David a break and accept the credit. He is otherwise likely to be bankrupt and 30 odd peoples livings will be destroyed.
Over here in the UK, even the government has asked if people could accept credit notes if not immediately desperate for the money, rather than insist on refunds even if legally they are entitled to it, otherwise airlines and very large travel companies and many other companies will go bankrupt causing massive misery to millions.
David never envisaged this, no company or individual did, but things happen in life and this is probably the most devastating world wide event even since the second world war. Lets not all make it worse if we don't need to, whats morally right and whats legally right are not always the same.

I received a fairly snide reply from them a few weeks before any of this was close to going down so I am not overly sympathetic to their plight. Im looking to finalize current business with them and move on to someone else as I dont think they run a business that cares about either of their customers.

 

[cmrdgrs]

Has anyone considered that this once in a lifetime event has, and is, ruining businesses. How about giving David a break and accept the credit. He is otherwise likely to be bankrupt and 30 odd peoples livings will be destroyed.
Over here in the UK, even the government has asked if people could accept credit notes if not immediately desperate for the money, rather than insist on refunds even if legally they are entitled to it, otherwise airlines and very large travel companies and many other companies will go bankrupt causing massive misery to millions.
David never envisaged this, no company or individual did, but things happen in life and this is probably the most devastating world wide event even since the second world war. Lets not all make it worse if we don't need to, whats morally right and whats legally right are not always the same.

Never envisioned a world event that might disrupt the world as we know it? Really? I don't run a multi million dollar business and in my little world I envisioned the day this could happen. Maybe not a global pandemic, but how about another War? How about a terrorist attack? I don't say this to be smug, I say this because he has repeatedly stated and he has slammed owners over the years touting his "reputation" and "that he protects the renters" Back when the world was rosy he was smug.

The reason people won't accept the credit is because his new terms in the email basically say that once the credit is issued his business has fulfilled their obligation. He also won't allow anyone to re-book in the event this happens again -- one rebook -- no ifs ands or buts. His new credit is unreasonable, and although I'm not a lawyer, IMO this extremely one sided contract would not hold up in court.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Frankly I’m sick of this pitting owners and renters against one another. We all used David’s as an intermediary (at a cost) to shield ourselves from this kind of thing, my issue is with them and I really could care less what goes on between them and my owner at this point.

To be perfectly honest I hope they don’t see a dime back from my owner either. I’m frustrated with the mishandling of this whole thing.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

David's Vacation Club Rentals reserves the right to change, add, modify, or eliminate any element of the Credit or any type of service or activity currently available with the Credit.

I missed this one when I read those terms and conditions. Not only is "Darth David" altering the deal, he explicitly reserves the right to alter it further!

And everything about this tells me David’s has a cash flow problem. He has been living off of the holdback money. That money has not been properly secured to be available to pay the owner.

Apparently, the evidence of this is all over Facebook.

As for future owners 30%, if I am ever to use a broker again, I would require my money be kept in escrow. Looking back, there is no reason he shouldnt have a pool of money right now that isnt allowed to be touched.

But if that money was in escrow, what would he use to finance his vacations?

 

[stlrod]

whats morally right and whats legally right are not always the same.

Completely agree, but David's touted itself as the safe alternative to directly renting from an owner and advertised heavily to legitimize its business. Was that morally right?

Also, whether anyone envisaged this is subject to debate. While I never saw the extent of this pandemic coming, we all saw what could happen with David's initial response to those whose vacations were cancelled due to the last hurricane. It was at first very much, "sorry, there are no refunds." It was at that time I stopped renting any points for trips more than 7 days after my banking deadline.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Has anyone considered that this once in a lifetime event has, and is, ruining businesses. How about giving David a break and accept the credit. He is otherwise likely to be bankrupt and 30 odd peoples livings will be destroyed.
Over here in the UK, even the government has asked if people could accept credit notes if not immediately desperate for the money, rather than insist on refunds even if legally they are entitled to it, otherwise airlines and very large travel companies and many other companies will go bankrupt causing massive misery to millions.
David never envisaged this, no company or individual did, but things happen in life and this is probably the most devastating world wide event even since the second world war. Lets not all make it worse if we don't need to, whats morally right and whats legally right are not always the same.

So I, as an individual renter, should be okay with potentially throwing away thousands of dollars out of pity, but David’s, a company who is (was) arguably the leader in this space had no responsibility to have contingency plans for these kinds of things nor should they consider the financial plight of all their renters who are also living through this same pandemic.

It’s ironic that renters have been condescendingly told they should have got insurance (many did), known the risks of renting, etc. but David’s was fine to operate in this space for years apparently without a solid plan for this type of scenario or any proper insurance that could cover it.

 

[cmrdgrs]

Frankly I’m sick of this pitting owners and renters against one another. We all used David’s as an intermediary (at a cost) to shield ourselves from this kind of thing, my issue is with them and I really could care less what goes on between them and my owner at this point.

To be perfectly honest I hope they don’t see a dime back from my owner either. I’m frustrated with the mishandling of this whole thing.

Some owners are reaching out to the renters directly in an effort to salvage things. I know renters have also looked up owners using public records (depending on the last name). It seems that in some cases that has worked well for renters/owners.

 

[lawboy2001]

How can he change the terms of the agreement in order for you to get what you paid for?

He can't, on his own. That's why he needs you to click 'accept' so you agree to the new terms and you have a new deal with him.

 

[lawboy2001]

I am also not a lawyer. Can someone please explain how they can make changes to an original contract, then say that this new one goes in place of the one thrown out? Wouldn’t that require all parties to agree and sign acknowledging such?

They can't make unilateral changes to the contract, but if the renters click 'accept' to the voucher offer, the renter agrees to David's new terms and there is a new agreement with David's agreed to by both parties.