Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Sandisw]

Is there anywhere in the contract that says we cannot contact the renters directly? I want to just contact them and say that I am willing to change their reservation but it is time dependent.

Not technically, but the owner contract you have with Davids does not allow you to change the reservation. So, you would be violating that aspect. Only you can decide if it is worth the risk of Davids declaring you in breach and requiring the return of the 70%

 

[Dracula]

Not technically, but the owner contract you have with Davids does not allow you to change the reservation. So, you would be violating that aspect. Only you can decide if it is worth the risk of Davids declaring you in breach and requiring the return of the 70%

When you are in breach of the contract, you may be liable for more than just 70%. The liability may extend over other costs incurred by the renter, according to the contract.

 

[Amymouse13]

Not technically, but the owner contract you have with Davids does not allow you to change the reservation. So, you would be violating that aspect. Only you can decide if it is worth the risk of Davids declaring you in breach and requiring the return of the 70%

I would think if you emailed David's as owner saying you and renter have agreed to amend the contract he'd be an **** not to permit it. Seems they should welcome such problem solving as it's far above and beyond the solutions they have made... My point being bringing him in before changing, bc then he agreed to it right? I mean heck three way contract agreed to by all parties... That's the first time that has come up here...

 

[Phatscott25]

I think this may be the clause to which you are referring:

"[Broker] or the Member shall not be responsible for any injuries, damages, or losses caused to the Guest or Guest's travel party in connection with terrorist activities, social, or labor unrest, mechanical or construction failures or difficulties, diseases, local laws, climatic conditions, criminal acts or abnormal conditions or developments, or any other actions, omissions, or conditions outside the [Broker]'s or the Member's control."

Not a lawyer, though my read of this passage is that it is general liability re: don't try to sue us if you get sick while on your trip or if the monorail isn't working. This does not appear to be a force majeure clause, and certainly doesn't explicitly cover what happens if the broker is unable to provide the contracted service. Especially considering the next passage begins "Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member..."

I don't believe this will absolve them from not being able to deliver on the contract in a similar manner being discussed regarding David's and they'll face the same risks on chargebacks. I'd suspect there is less complaining here as this is an owner heavy part of the board, and from what I can tell this broker is still trying to make owners whole.

The rest of that portion of the contract you mentioned is as follows:

"Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with broker, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $xx US Dollars."

You may very well be correct, as far as the broker having liability to refund the renter. As an owner my concern is whether I'd be contractually forced to offer a refund. And my interpretation of the contract is that I would not.

I received an identical email that someone else posted recently in this thread. I was asked to help if possible, but told I would receive full payment regardless. So I think my interpretation of the contract, as far as it concerns me as an owner, is correct. Either that or they value their relationship with owners much better than David's apparently does.

Thankfully, I was able to help the renter out with a reschedule.

 

[Phatscott25]

Please refer to this in regards to DIS policies about businesses.
DIS guidelines

100% NOT true. Sponsors have no input into what other businesses may be discussed on the DIS. Please do not spread this incorrect information. This is from the pinned thread at the top of every DIS DVC forum:

From the DIS Guidelines:

7. ADVERTISING

The advertisers/sponsors who you see on the DIS are carefully chosen. ...

We do welcome discussion of DIS advertisers/sponsors as well as other businesses that you have information or questions about. ...............(snip)............

Suggestion that DIS advertisers and sponsors have influence over how the forums are run is far from the truth. They are provided advertising space on the DIS and, if they have registered usernames, will have an "Approved Advertiser" icon in their profile. Otherwise, they play no role in what may be posted on the DIS about them or their competitors.

From the DIS Guidelines:

FILTERED WORDS, NAMES and URLS

The DIS is a privately owned web site and we reserve the right to restrict any outside commercial ventures at our discretion. We will not discuss the reasons behind why specific websites are filtered and any discussion regarding the word filter may be deleted.

Here are some of the DVC resale brokers often mentioned on the DIS:

The Timeshare Store (a DIS sponsor) - http://www.dvc-resales.com
Fidelity Resales - http://fidelityresales.com/
DVC by Resale - http://www.dvcbyresale.com/
Selling Timeshares - http://www.sellingtimeshares.net
DVC Magic Resales - http://www.DVCmagicresales.com
DVC Resale Market - http://www.dvcresalemarket.com/

Here are few other options for DVC resale purchases:

Timeshare Users Group - http://www.tug2.net (Also a great resource for information about other Timeshare programs)
Timesharing Today - http://www.tstoday.com
Redweek - http://www.redweek.com
Ebay - http://www.ebay.com

...and here are some other sites frequently posted on the DIS DVC Forums:
Owners Locker - http://www.ownerslocker.com
DVC Request - http://www.DVCrequest.com
DVC News - DVCNews.com

If you wish to promote a business or site not mentioned in this post or without posting a link, please recognize that you will be doing so at your own risk.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

My apologies.

 

[McCrae]

Is there anywhere in the contract that says we cannot contact the renters directly? I want to just contact them and say that I am willing to change their reservation but it is time dependent.

David’s didn’t give me the option to help the renter I was originally linked with. The re-renting of points would be with different renter.

 

[foodiddiedoo]

So it's Saturday has anyone who was a Renter received any communication from David's whatsoever on his credit system? I have seen nothing... Would have been checking in at Aulani in an hour or so.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

So it's Saturday has anyone who was a Renter received any communication from David's whatsoever on his credit system? I have seen nothing... Would have been checking in at Aulani in an hour or so.

Nope. We would have been one of the first groups impacted by the WDW closure if they are going in order. In fairness we also made it clear a credit is not a solution for us weeks ago when they announced it. But no standard email or anything.

 

[banzai75]

Hello everyone. I am a renter. It sounds like most of you are owners and I am trying to understand my options with David. We were scheduled for first week of April. I am not a lawyer.

My original contract from January doesn't state anything about a force majeure clause. My thought is that I entered into a contract whereby I pay money and owner was supposed to provide accommodations. Since resorts closed, and service not provided I am entitled to a refund. From Disney sites, it says that all reservations are cancelled automatically and points are returned to owners automatically.

I don't understand why I can't just a refund and why I have to do this future credit. The owners got their points back. I should get my money back? It's very restrictive. I'm thinking of just initiating a chargeback dispute with Chase Sapphire.

Here is the travel credit email from David:

Thank you for your patience in waiting for our communications.
Below are the Terms and Conditions for the David's Vacation Club Rentals Travel Credit. Once you've had the opportunity to review the information, we look forward to receiving your response and would ask that you please indicate your reply by clicking on a button below.
Terms & Conditions

1. The Credit will be for the entire value of the original booking, less any compensation already received, and the Credit can only be applied to one subsequent booking. If the value of the Credit exceeds the value of the subsequent booking, the remaining differential in value will not be refunded, nor will it be available for extra's or add-on's such as dining plans or park tickets. If the value of the subsequent booking exceeds the value of the Credit, the guest will be responsible for paying the difference.
2. You may not assign or transfer the Credit or any rights, interests or obligations hereunder. You may not combine this Credit with any other credit or promotional offer.
3. Any Reservation booked using the Credit is FINAL SALE – NO EXCEPTIONS. This includes, but is not limited to, date modification, resale and changes to the Guest names used for the original booking.
4. Credit has no cash value.
5. The Travel Credit will not be reissued if it is lost or stolen. Keep this information in a safe location.
6. Credit is available for use up to 24 months after the date of issue. Credit must be used within 24 months.
7. Credit can be used for any service offered by David's Vacation Club Rentals including but not limited to Point Rentals, Cash Bookings at Disney owned resorts, Cruise Bookings or Adventure by Disney bookings.
8. Credits cannot be applied to Park Tickets, Dining Plans, or insurance plans.
9. In the case of Point Rentals, upon requesting a reservation with your credit code, you will be asked to authorize a new deposit. Once the code has been confirmed, your deposit will be refunded and the reservation process will continue.
10. In the event of a global pandemic, natural disaster, force Majeure or any other event outside the reasonable control of David's Vacation Club Rentals, this Credit remains non-refundable and no modification, cancelations or rebooking will be permitted.
11. David's Vacation Club Rentals does not guarantee the availability of services. The Credit is subject to availability of the selected product at time of booking.
12. No terms and conditions, other than those stated herein, and no agreement or understanding, oral or written, in any way purporting to modify these Terms and Conditions shall be binding.
13. These terms and conditions shall be governed by, and interpreted in accordance with, the laws of the Province of Ontario and the laws of Canada applicable therein.
14. David's Vacation Club Rentals reserves the right to change, add, modify, or eliminate any element of the Credit or any type of service or activity currently available with the Credit.
15. Credit represents full and final satisfaction of any and all obligations set out in the original Rental Agreement and David's Vacation Club Rentals is released from any further rights, obligations or performance of the original Rental Agreement.

Thanks everyone!

 

[banzai75]

I, ????, accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit as they're listed above.

I, ????, do not accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit and agree to keep my reservation as is, understanding that there are no refunds or modifications allowed.

Doesn't it sound like if I hit no than i am out of luck?

 

[Grnl706]

I, ????, accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit as they're listed above.

I, ????, do not accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit and agree to keep my reservation as is, understanding that there are no refunds or modifications allowed.

Doesn't it sound like if I hit no than i am out of luck?

First, thank you for posting this. I was wondering how this would look. Could you just initiate the charge back and not respond? I don't like how they pigeon hole you into not accepting AND keeping your reservation as is. Seems shady. How can you keep a reservation that's cancelled?

ETA: The more I think about it, is this a way to try to stop charge backs in their tracks? If you hit no and do a charge back they now have something of you agreeing to keep the reservation and get no refund.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Hello everyone. I am a renter. It sounds like most of you are owners and I am trying to understand my options with David. We were scheduled for first week of April. I am not a lawyer.

My original contract from January doesn't state anything about a force majeure clause. My thought is that I entered into a contract whereby I pay money and owner was supposed to provide accommodations. Since resorts closed, and service not provided I am entitled to a refund. From Disney sites, it says that all reservations are cancelled automatically and points are returned to owners automatically.

I don't understand why I can't just a refund and why I have to do this future credit. The owners got their points back. I should get my money back? It's very restrictive. I'm thinking of just initiating a chargeback dispute with Chase Sapphire.

Here is the travel credit email from David:

Thank you for your patience in waiting for our communications.
Below are the Terms and Conditions for the David's Vacation Club Rentals Travel Credit. Once you've had the opportunity to review the information, we look forward to receiving your response and would ask that you please indicate your reply by clicking on a button below.
Terms & Conditions

1. The Credit will be for the entire value of the original booking, less any compensation already received, and the Credit can only be applied to one subsequent booking. If the value of the Credit exceeds the value of the subsequent booking, the remaining differential in value will not be refunded, nor will it be available for extra's or add-on's such as dining plans or park tickets. If the value of the subsequent booking exceeds the value of the Credit, the guest will be responsible for paying the difference.
2. You may not assign or transfer the Credit or any rights, interests or obligations hereunder. You may not combine this Credit with any other credit or promotional offer.
3. Any Reservation booked using the Credit is FINAL SALE – NO EXCEPTIONS. This includes, but is not limited to, date modification, resale and changes to the Guest names used for the original booking.
4. Credit has no cash value.
5. The Travel Credit will not be reissued if it is lost or stolen. Keep this information in a safe location.
6. Credit is available for use up to 24 months after the date of issue. Credit must be used within 24 months.
7. Credit can be used for any service offered by David's Vacation Club Rentals including but not limited to Point Rentals, Cash Bookings at Disney owned resorts, Cruise Bookings or Adventure by Disney bookings.
8. Credits cannot be applied to Park Tickets, Dining Plans, or insurance plans.
9. In the case of Point Rentals, upon requesting a reservation with your credit code, you will be asked to authorize a new deposit. Once the code has been confirmed, your deposit will be refunded and the reservation process will continue.
10. In the event of a global pandemic, natural disaster, force Majeure or any other event outside the reasonable control of David's Vacation Club Rentals, this Credit remains non-refundable and no modification, cancelations or rebooking will be permitted.
11. David's Vacation Club Rentals does not guarantee the availability of services. The Credit is subject to availability of the selected product at time of booking.
12. No terms and conditions, other than those stated herein, and no agreement or understanding, oral or written, in any way purporting to modify these Terms and Conditions shall be binding.
13. These terms and conditions shall be governed by, and interpreted in accordance with, the laws of the Province of Ontario and the laws of Canada applicable therein.
14. David's Vacation Club Rentals reserves the right to change, add, modify, or eliminate any element of the Credit or any type of service or activity currently available with the Credit.
15. Credit represents full and final satisfaction of any and all obligations set out in the original Rental Agreement and David's Vacation Club Rentals is released from any further rights, obligations or performance of the original Rental Agreement.

Thanks everyone!

They are offering credits not refunds because they don’t have the cash available to refund us all. We can only assume, at least. IMO if they were confident in the strength of their contracts with renters they would have let us take the loss, maybe contacting those whose owners had points expiring far enough away to rebook. Their actions are souring them to a lot of their owners who are I would guess harder to replace than us renters, so my guess is they took this path because they had to, not to be “generous“ and offer a credit vs nothing.

Anyways, if a credit is not adequate in your opinion absolutely initiate a dispute. You are not required to accept it.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I, ????, accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit as they're listed above.

I, ????, do not accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit and agree to keep my reservation as is, understanding that there are no refunds or modifications allowed.

Doesn't it sound like if I hit no than i am out of luck?

Take a page from their playbook and due to the volume of emails in your inbox, you are addressing them in order of receipt and you’ll get to theirs sometime in July.

 

[banzai75]

I'm just confused on the cash flow position and how moneys are transferred.

1. I renter paid 3000 to DVC for aulani
2. Owner uses 50 points and books Aulani on my behalf
3. David takes percentage broker fee and pays owner 2100 to owner

Now Aulani closes

4. Owner gets refunded 50 points. Per Disney website
5. Is owner supposed to pay David back the 2100 since he didn't provide service?
6. David then pays 3000 back to me

Is step 5 the sticking point? Please excuse me if I simplified this to much. Just trying to understand from a different point of view.

 

[starry_solo]

I'm just confused on the cash flow position and how moneys are transferred.

1. I renter paid 3000 to DVC for aulani
2. Owner uses 50 points and books Aulani on my behalf
3. David takes percentage broker fee and pays owner 2100 to owner

Now Aulani closes

4. Owner gets refunded 50 points. Per Disney website
5. Is owner supposed to pay David back the 2100 since he didn't provide service?
6. David then pays 3000 back to me

Is step 5 the sticking point? Please excuse me if I simplified this to much. Just trying to understand from a different point of view.

#3 - David doesn't pay the owner $2100. Of the $3000 you paid, David's took 30% (or $900). Then of the $2100 that David kept, he only paid 70%, which is $1470-ish. He kept the remaining amount until the date of check-in. Some owners got that remaining amount on the date of check-in (even if no one checked in because the resort is closed), but that seems to be a rare few.

#4 - doesn't always happen. It depends on when the points expired. That's what some of the owners
are saying. The points expired, cannot be banked or used, so they are worthless.

#5 - no. See #4

#6 - no. David's isn't giving up his 30% commission

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I'm just confused on the cash flow position and how moneys are transferred.

1. I renter paid 3000 to DVC for aulani
2. Owner uses 50 points and books Aulani on my behalf
3. David takes percentage broker fee and pays owner 2100 to owner

Now Aulani closes

4. Owner gets refunded 50 points. Per Disney website
5. Is owner supposed to pay David back the 2100 since he didn't provide service?
6. David then pays 3000 back to me

Is step 5 the sticking point? Please excuse me if I simplified this to much. Just trying to understand from a different point of view.

David’s pays owner 70% of their portion, and holds the rest their portion until check in date. In near all cases I believe, they have not paid out that remaining 30% on the canceled reservations. David’s has asked owners to return funds BUT the kicker, this is to fund the credits not to pass directly to renters as a refund.

The points your owner is returned may or may not be usable points. They could expire before they can be rebooked, leaving them worthless to that owner or close to it.

As a renter, I’m to the point where I don’t really care what’s going on between the owner and David’s. That’s for them to work out. We all used brokers to lessen our risk (haha, right?) and simplify this transaction, so that’s who I’m focused on getting money back from.

 

[Dracula]

I, ????, accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit as they're listed above.

I, ????, do not accept the terms and conditions of the travel credit and agree to keep my reservation as is, understanding that there are no refunds or modifications allowed.

Doesn't it sound like if I hit no than i am out of luck?

You cannot keep your reservation as is since it already expired during the first week of April. If you can live with the restrictive conditions of the travel voucher, take that. Otherwise, inform David that you would rather have a refund, and if he says no, dispute the charge with Chase. If Chase finds in David's favour because the reservation was non-refundable, then ask David to let you have the voucher. But it may be best to hold on with filing the dispute, because it is not 100% sure that David would still give you the voucher if you lose the dispute - so it helps to wait a couple of weeks and see how this worked for other renters, who would hopefully post on this board. Still, make sure you don't run out of the window for filing the dispute with Chase. At this point however, there is no benefit from rushing to accept the voucher (it's not like he would ever run out of vouchers) - just get in writing that he refuses to issue a refund.

 

[Sandisw]

I'm just confused on the cash flow position and how moneys are transferred.

1. I renter paid 3000 to DVC for aulani
2. Owner uses 50 points and books Aulani on my behalf
3. David takes percentage broker fee and pays owner 2100 to owner

Now Aulani closes

4. Owner gets refunded 50 points. Per Disney website
5. Is owner supposed to pay David back the 2100 since he didn't provide service?
6. David then pays 3000 back to me

Is step 5 the sticking point? Please excuse me if I simplified this to much. Just trying to understand from a different point of view.

The key to all of this is that even if the owner you rented the reservation from did decide to return the money they were paid to Davids, he is not giving it to the renters, He, on his own, has decided that he will keep it and only give yu a credit

IMO, I would email him back and say you are filing a dispute with your CC because you believe you are entitled to the refund and not the credit.

Of course, it is a risk, but it sounds like those that accept the credit, and then something happens to your 2nd trip, you get nothing and he Gets to keep the money the original owner returned

 

[Amymouse13]

the event of a global pandemic, natural disaster, force Majeure or any other event outside the reasonable control of David's Vacation Club Rentals, this Credit remains non-refundable and no modification, cancelations or rebooking will be permitted.


Haha accept this deal which fixes the loophole in my previous contract... No promise he can fill voucher either, but no take backs of not.

I didn't get an email and we were supposed to check in today. Our reservations were cancelled by owners in March. My chargeback was filed in March... Yeah so we already sent documents and signed the forms for CC.

 

[ziravan]

Hello everyone. I am a renter. It sounds like most of you are owners and I am trying to understand my options with David. We were scheduled for first week of April. I am not a lawyer.

My original contract from January doesn't state anything about a force majeure clause. My thought is that I entered into a contract whereby I pay money and owner was supposed to provide accommodations. Since resorts closed, and service not provided I am entitled to a refund. From Disney sites, it says that all reservations are cancelled automatically and points are returned to owners automatically.

I don't understand why I can't just a refund and why I have to do this future credit. The owners got their points back. I should get my money back? It's very restrictive. I'm thinking of just initiating a chargeback dispute with Chase Sapphire.

Here is the travel credit email from David:

Thank you for your patience in waiting for our communications.
Below are the Terms and Conditions for the David's Vacation Club Rentals Travel Credit. Once you've had the opportunity to review the information, we look forward to receiving your response and would ask that you please indicate your reply by clicking on a button below.
Terms & Conditions

1. The Credit will be for the entire value of the original booking, less any compensation already received, and the Credit can only be applied to one subsequent booking. If the value of the Credit exceeds the value of the subsequent booking, the remaining differential in value will not be refunded, nor will it be available for extra's or add-on's such as dining plans or park tickets. If the value of the subsequent booking exceeds the value of the Credit, the guest will be responsible for paying the difference.
2. You may not assign or transfer the Credit or any rights, interests or obligations hereunder. You may not combine this Credit with any other credit or promotional offer.
3. Any Reservation booked using the Credit is FINAL SALE – NO EXCEPTIONS. This includes, but is not limited to, date modification, resale and changes to the Guest names used for the original booking.
4. Credit has no cash value.
5. The Travel Credit will not be reissued if it is lost or stolen. Keep this information in a safe location.
6. Credit is available for use up to 24 months after the date of issue. Credit must be used within 24 months.
7. Credit can be used for any service offered by David's Vacation Club Rentals including but not limited to Point Rentals, Cash Bookings at Disney owned resorts, Cruise Bookings or Adventure by Disney bookings.
8. Credits cannot be applied to Park Tickets, Dining Plans, or insurance plans.
9. In the case of Point Rentals, upon requesting a reservation with your credit code, you will be asked to authorize a new deposit. Once the code has been confirmed, your deposit will be refunded and the reservation process will continue.
10. In the event of a global pandemic, natural disaster, force Majeure or any other event outside the reasonable control of David's Vacation Club Rentals, this Credit remains non-refundable and no modification, cancelations or rebooking will be permitted.
11. David's Vacation Club Rentals does not guarantee the availability of services. The Credit is subject to availability of the selected product at time of booking.
12. No terms and conditions, other than those stated herein, and no agreement or understanding, oral or written, in any way purporting to modify these Terms and Conditions shall be binding.
13. These terms and conditions shall be governed by, and interpreted in accordance with, the laws of the Province of Ontario and the laws of Canada applicable therein.
14. David's Vacation Club Rentals reserves the right to change, add, modify, or eliminate any element of the Credit or any type of service or activity currently available with the Credit.
15. Credit represents full and final satisfaction of any and all obligations set out in the original Rental Agreement and David's Vacation Club Rentals is released from any further rights, obligations or performance of the original Rental Agreement.

Thanks everyone!

I wouldn’t respond and WOULD seek a chargeback. David’s is admitting that his credit has no cash value, so how can that be a legitimate substitute for your cash payment? This is a point I would make to the CC company.