Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[starry_solo]

Very cool I found one of my owners, the other's address is some timeshare LLC thing. His name is way too common so shrugs.

Do you have an address?

 

[Amymouse13]

Do you have an address?

I'm not mailing a letter to a LLC... Both of my mid April reservations got cancelled, probably by owners, which is great. I messaged the one to just be aware what's going on here. Since they are cancelled I'm in a different boat I guess?

 

[Maddiesmum03]

Put the owner‘s name into the grantee search box. If it’s a direct you should find one record, if it’s a resale you should find two. One has disney vacation management as grantor - that’s either the actual deed, or waiving right of first refusal of a resale. The other will have people’s name(s) as grantor - that’s the actual deed of a resale.

The deed should have the address of the owner when they bought. Check that against their Facebook profile, or just google name and address. You can likely find an email.

https://www.occompt.com/services/records-search/

I just tried this with my own contract out of interest.It shows my address as c/o Disney Vacation Inc, Celebration. I wonder if this is because I’m in the UK.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Someone posted this link on a Facebook group and it seems that depending on the contract the owner(if renting privately) or David’s are allowed to insist that they are not to blame and insist that they have a no refund policy.

According to David’s contracts David’s is not liable for any operation changes by DVC (including the phrase not limited to clause)

Since DVC closed the resorts IMO that would be an operational change - right?

The contract does not address what will happen if the room can’t be delivered due to no fault of David’s but since David’s is not liable for operational changes aren’t they still covered?

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/hurricane-ruined-vacation-rental-65359.html

 

[meryll83]

Anyone know if there’s a comptroller to verify Disneyland VGC ownerships?

 

[momincolorado]

Someone posted this link on a Facebook group and it seems that depending on the contract the owner(if renting privately) or David’s are allowed to insist that they are not to blame and insist that they have a no refund policy.

According to David’s contracts David’s is not liable for any operation changes by DVC (including the phrase not limited to clause)

Since DVC closed the resorts IMO that would be an operational change - right?

The contract does not address what will happen if the room can’t be delivered due to no fault of David’s but since David’s is not liable for operational changes aren’t they still covered?

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/hurricane-ruined-vacation-rental-65359.html

I got the sense that they will be using it to fight any cc chargebacks. The exact wording of the clause reads:

“David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, playgrounds, and other amenities controlled by the Resort...While Disney might offer you access to alternate amenities, David’s Vacation Club Rentals assumes no responsibility for situations that are not under its control.”

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Would this cover them?

 

[JasonV]

The agreement also says this:
The Intermediary has received from Renter a NON REFUNDABLE payment of $xxxx US Dollars in return for a confirmed reservation

If the reservation is cancelled by Disney would it not make this contact null and void?

 

[McCrae]

I just tried this with my own contract out of interest.It shows my address as c/o Disney Vacation Inc, Celebration. I wonder if this is because I’m in the UK.

same here,

 

[Cyberc1978]

The agreement also says this:
The Intermediary has received from Renter a NON REFUNDABLE payment of $xxxx US Dollars in return for a confirmed reservation

If the reservation is cancelled by Disney would it not make this contact null and void?

If the clause applies to the current situation then it does not matter if Disney cancelled or not. According to the link I provided a judge will side with the owner if we assume the above clause covers this situation.

question is does the clause covers this situation or not?

 

[starry_solo]

Anyone know if there’s a comptroller to verify Disneyland VGC ownerships?

look in orange county California for The recorders office. That’s what they call it here in CA. You can do the same grantor grantee search

 

[Amymouse13]

I got the sense that they will be using it to fight any cc chargebacks. The exact wording of the clause reads:

“David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, playgrounds, and other amenities controlled by the Resort...While Disney might offer you access to alternate amenities, David’s Vacation Club Rentals assumes no responsibility for situations that are not under its control.”

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Would this cover them?

In my opinion this references amenities such as pools and restaurants, this doesn't seem to reference lodging not being available. But I'm sure they are going to argue. The sentence appears limited to amenities not presence of a room. A room isn't an amenity.

 

[yankeesfan123]

In my opinion this references amenities such as pools and restaurants, this doesn't seem to reference lodging not being available. But I'm sure they are going to argue. The sentence appears limited to amenities not presence of a room. A room isn't an amenity.

well, he’ll focus on the, “David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel,” part.

Then again, the contract also states that the renter was renting points from an owner. In the scenarios that we are discussing, that part didn’t happen either.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

I got the sense that they will be using it to fight any cc chargebacks. The exact wording of the clause reads:

“David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, playgrounds, and other amenities controlled by the Resort...While Disney might offer you access to alternate amenities, David’s Vacation Club Rentals assumes no responsibility for situations that are not under its control.”

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Would this cover them?

I think this clause is meant to limit liability if Disney closes a specific part of the resort....ie you book BCV for June and they shut down Stormalong Bay or if for some reason they need to take the animals off the Savannah for the duration of your AKL stay. I could also see it covering if you booked AKV Jambo and due to a maintenance issue, like a burst pipe, they moved you to Kadini (or another comparable option). I'd be surprised though if shutting down the entire WDW complex due to Covid-19 would stand up as a legal "operational change" that frees David's of all legal responsibility.

 

[Amymouse13]

I think a judge might also see what other industries are doing...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christ...-if-i-cancel-my-vacation-coronavirus-edition/
In most of these if the operator cancels a refund is due, probably as the service was not rendered. Though who in this case is liable is dicey, but the renter only has contract with David's and especially since they are asking for cash refunds from owners super shady to only offer voucher without inherent value (unlike a Disney gift card).

 

[Krandor]

Interesting addition. Airlines are trying to do the travel vouchers thing and dot has said they must do refunds. Of course they are regulated differently then somethjng like this but interesting In this case travel vouchers are said to be a no go

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...unds-flights-canceled-delayed-dot/2941262001/

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

Interesting addition. Airlines are trying to do the travel vouchers thing and dot has said they must do refunds. Of course they are regulated differently then somethjng like this but interesting In this case travel vouchers are said to be a no go

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...unds-flights-canceled-delayed-dot/2941262001/

The Canadian version of the DOT recently ruled the opposite on the subject of vouchers versus refunds. They said the airlines can issue vouchers in lieu of cash refunds, even in situations where flights are cancelled or tickets were refundable. They did have to make the expiration of the vouchers "reasonable", which I think they settled on 24 months. Since Davids is based in Canada not sure where any litigation would actually have to be initiated. But if in Canada that type of ruling probably doesn't help renters trying to obtain full refunds.

For any renter who has been offered a voucher, what is the expiration date (if there is one)? Apologies if this has been answered upstream.

 

[Sandisw]

Someone posted this link on a Facebook group and it seems that depending on the contract the owner(if renting privately) or David’s are allowed to insist that they are not to blame and insist that they have a no refund policy.

According to David’s contracts David’s is not liable for any operation changes by DVC (including the phrase not limited to clause)

Since DVC closed the resorts IMO that would be an operational change - right?

The contract does not address what will happen if the room can’t be delivered due to no fault of David’s but since David’s is not liable for operational changes aren’t they still covered?

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/hurricane-ruined-vacation-rental-65359.html

The line with operational changes discusses amenities of the resort and to be honest, I don’t think it is enough for anyone to have assumed that covered resort closure. I certainly never did when I entered into the contract as an owner,

That implied to me that the renter couldn’t claim they had a right to get out if the pool was closed, etc,

The fact that he has come up with the travel voucher does lead me to believe he got some legal advice that his contract may not have what it needs to take that stance,

 

[Amymouse13]

The Canadian version of the DOT recently ruled the opposite on the subject of vouchers versus refunds. They said the airlines can issue vouchers in lieu of cash refunds, even in situations where flights are cancelled or tickets were refundable. They did have to make the expiration of the vouchers "reasonable", which I think they settled on 24 months. Since Davids is based in Canada not sure where any litigation would actually have to be initiated. But if in Canada that type of ruling probably doesn't help renters trying to obtain full refunds.

For any renter who has been offered a voucher, what is the expiration date (if there is one)? Apologies if this has been answered upstream.

They are diligently working out a plan for their voucher program... Lol. No one knows.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Sure they are - I’ve got a bridge in NY for sale too!! I’ve got more.,..

 

[momincolorado]

I think this clause is meant limit liability if Disney closes a specific part of the resort....ie you book BCV for June and they shut down Stormalong Bay or if for some reason they need to take the animals off the Savannah for the duration of your AKL stay. I could also see it covering if you booked AKV Jambo and due to a maintenance issue, like a burst pipe, they moved you to Kadini (or another comparable option). I'd be surprised though if shutting down the entire WDW complex due to Covid-19 would stand up as a legal "operational change" that frees David's of all legal responsibility.

That’s how I’m reading it as well. In other words, if you show up and the pool is closed, restaurant onsite undergoing refurb etc - not their problem, they are covered. But closure of the entire resort resulting in no place to stay would be property/services not delivered.