David Tutera Divorce

[Lorelei Lee]

I graduated in the early 80's.

Yes, I know that there are a lot of articles now about surrogates, donor eggs, donor sperm, gestational carriers, etc. But not so much about the technologies with now-legal gay marriage (which laws apply, and how), or with two children carried by the same gestational carrier at the same time, born at the same time, to a couple then married, who are at best half-siblings or perhaps not genetically related at all. That's a new twist to an older story.

We are more or less the same age.

I agree gay marriage is a new twist, but I think the law is otherwise fairly settled.

So what did you wind up writing your note on? Mine was on Civil RICO. Never published. Got preempted by a major court decision.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DISBoards

 

[Lulululu]

Honestly, as they are infants and are apparently not blood siblings, I really don't see that it would be truly tragic to separate them, but I think that if they do so, then it should be permanent.

Better under the circumstances for each of them to take his own child and start fresh, because having them in one anothers lives would make explaining the separation of a couple of children who were (for want of a better term) womb-mates will be an ongoing psychological struggle. I think that in the long run, it would be preferable to just be a kid with a single Dad who loves you, rather than a kid whose other parent only wanted the kid who was biologically his.

Well, many a study says that twins raised seperately ( even from day one, even when they have no idea they have a twin, or were even adopted) feel something is missing in their lives. Since these children share their mother's genes (and possibly traits of their surrogate - after all, people who get heart transplants get more than a pump - that too is now recognized).

There was a time when seperating twins at birth was commonplace - and often with disastrous results. It may still be true in adoption circles. I work with traumatized animals, and one of the worst things you can do to a kitten is split it up from a litter mate it's bonded with. Not all do bond, but those who do should always be adopted together. Pairs make MUCH better pets anyway (more entertaining, more content). Many animals ( squirrels and oppossum do this) pair up their young and send them out in the world together, to be safety buddies for life. But then, animals nearly always rely on common sense for their decisions and not half baked rationalization, like these two cads have. They remind me of two five year olds playing with dolls. But not as sweet.

 

[Feralpeg]

Maybe, I'm missing something. These babies are not really twins. Not in the true sense. The entire situation was manufactured. Two eggs were fertilized and implanted, but it was not a naturally occurring situation of two eggs being fertilized at the same time. People keep saying that there can be ramifications to separating twins. To me, this is no different than any two children being separated.

In fact, I don't see this as any different than any divorce situation where one child lives with one parent and another child with the other parent. These are babies. They don't know each other.

While I think it is very admirable that they want the kids to grow up and be close, I don't think the situation will cause any type of trauma to the kids. In fact, I bet these kids will thrive. I don't know anything about his partner, but I've watched David for years and he seems to be a very nice and caring person.

The thing I wish people would learn is that having children is not the solution to a problem relationship. I wish both men and their children the very best. As an aside, when those kids grow up, I bet they have the most incredible weddings ever!

 

[mom2rtk]

Maybe, I'm missing something. These babies are not really twins. Not in the true sense. The entire situation was manufactured. Two eggs were fertilized and implanted, but it was not a naturally occurring situation of two eggs being fertilized at the same time. People keep saying that there can be ramifications to separating twins. To me, this is no different than any two children being separated.

In fact, I don't see this as any different than any divorce situation where one child lives with one parent and another child with the other parent. These are babies. They don't know each other.

While I think it is very admirable that they want the kids to grow up and be close, I don't think the situation will cause any type of trauma to the kids. In fact, I bet these kids will thrive. I don't know anything about his partner, but I've watched David for years and he seems to be a very nice and caring person.

The thing I wish people would learn is that having children is not the solution to a problem relationship. I wish both men and their children the very best. As an aside, when those kids grow up, I bet they have the most incredible weddings ever!

From what I have seen, the children do have the same biological mother. But yes, definitely a highly manipulated situation from the get go.

HOWEVER....... who is to say where that special bond experienced by twins comes from. It is a very distinct possibility that it comes from spending so much time so close together in the womb. I personally believe that is a distinct possibility, and these children will likely suffer a huge loss..... more than if 2 non-twin siblings are separated.

 

[Feralpeg]

From what I have seen, the children do have the same biological mother. But yes, definitely a highly manipulated situation from the get go.

HOWEVER....... who is to say where that special bond experienced by twins comes from. It is a very distinct possibility that it comes from spending so much time so close together in the womb. I personally believe that is a distinct possibility, and these children will likely suffer a huge loss..... more than if 2 non-twin siblings are separated.

Maybe, but I think it has more to do with just luck and time siblings of any kind spend together. My younger brothers are twins. They have never been close. They don't like the same type of things. Their personalities are totally different. Yet, my sister and I (we are not twins) are extremely close. We always have been. I don't know that I believe all of the twin bond thing.

 

[blana]

Random question: how do you pronounce the daughter's name? I've never seen it. Is it like Cello? Or Cee-lo? Or some other combination I can't think of?

 

[Lorelei Lee]

Random question: how do you pronounce the daughter's name? I've never seen it. Is it like Cello? Or Cee-lo? Or some other combination I can't think of?

It's the Spanish word for "sky". See-eh-low, with the emphasis on the last syllable.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Maybe, I'm missing something. These babies are not really twins. Not in the true sense. The entire situation was manufactured. Two eggs were fertilized and implanted, but it was not a naturally occurring situation of two eggs being fertilized at the same time. People keep saying that there can be ramifications to separating twins. To me, this is no different than any two children being separated.

In fact, I don't see this as any different than any divorce situation where one child lives with one parent and another child with the other parent. These are babies. They don't know each other.

While I think it is very admirable that they want the kids to grow up and be close, I don't think the situation will cause any type of trauma to the kids. In fact, I bet these kids will thrive. I don't know anything about his partner, but I've watched David for years and he seems to be a very nice and caring person.

The thing I wish people would learn is that having children is not the solution to a problem relationship. I wish both men and their children the very best. As an aside, when those kids grow up, I bet they have the most incredible weddings ever!

Maybe, but I think it has more to do with just luck and time siblings of any kind spend together. My younger brothers are twins. They have never been close. They don't like the same type of things. Their personalities are totally different. Yet, my sister and I (we are not twins) are extremely close. We always have been. I don't know that I believe all of the twin bond thing.

From what I have read the babies have the same bio-mother? Even if the fathers are different it still makes them twins.

I do understand what you are saying but in that same line of thinking than fraternal twins aren't really twins. Fraternal twins are basically no different than any other siblings, they just happen to have shared womb space and a birthday. My fraternal twins are polar opposites and really don't even LIKE one another, but I see a kind of bond there. It's hard to explain, it was easier to see it when they were babies.

I don't even really have THAT big of an issue with them separating the babies. (*I* don't think I could do that, but I'm not them.) I just hope they allow them to grow up and still know one another.

 

[lizabu]

From what I have read the babies have the same bio-mother? Even if the fathers are different it still makes them twins.

I do understand what you are saying but in that same line of thinking than fraternal twins aren't really twins. Fraternal twins are basically no different than any other siblings, they just happen to have shared womb space and a birthday. My fraternal twins are polar opposites and really don't even LIKE one another, but I see a kind of bond there. It's hard to explain, it was easier to see it when they were babies.

I don't even really have THAT big of an issue with them separating the babies. (*I* don't think I could do that, but I'm not them.) I just hope they allow them to grow up and still know one another.

That was my understanding too. The egg came from the same women. I don't like to see siblings split up at all. Especially twins.

 

[Lilliputian]

I hope that what bothers people isn't centered around separating twins. I do see that as a REALLY BIG issue, but it pales in comparison to the fact that these people said that they wanted to have children to love and raise as their own, but then they decided that they really only wanted one and don't care what happens to the other one. I find it horrifying that they went through all the work it takes to have a woman carry two babies for them when it turns out they only wanted the one that they share genes with. They don't sound like fit parents at all.

 

[scottishduffy]

One would think that same-sex marriage would use the same 'rules' of a hetero marriage. I.E. Any child conceived during the marriage is assumes to be the biological property of both of the parents. Yes, logically in same-sex marriage it isn't possible. But this situation is going to come up alot.

My brother in law and his partner will be using a surrogate. While they would like like to not know who sired the child, it will be obvious who the father is. Their plan is that whoever is not the biological father will then legally adopt the child. So that way they will both have some legal protection. One as a biological parent and the other as an adoptive parent.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think what bothers me most is that the children seem to be treated here like marital assets to be divided along with the china.

It is incredibly selfish and immature to bring children into the world with a "job" to do...... in this case trying to save the marriage. This all seems to be more about what is best for the adults than what is best for the children. I have enjoyed watching some of David Tutera's wedding shows. I probably won't watch again now.

 

[superme80]

I think what bothers me most is that the children seem to be treated here like marital assets to be divided along with the china.

It is incredibly selfish and immature to bring children into the world with a "job" to do...... in this case trying to save the marriage. This all seems to be more about what is best for the adults than what is best for the children. I have enjoyed watching some of David Tutera's wedding shows. I probably won't watch again now.

I think that is what bothers me the most too.

 

[robinb]

“The relationship has been going horribly for 6 years,” David said. “We were hoping that having a family would make it better.”

My first thought was: if this doesn't prove to you that same-sex couple are the same as opposite sex couples, I don't know what would . How many times have we heard of people who have children thinking that doing so would help the relationship?

 

[Feralpeg]

I hope that what bothers people isn't centered around separating twins. I do see that as a REALLY BIG issue, but it pales in comparison to the fact that these people said that they wanted to have children to love and raise as their own, but then they decided that they really only wanted one and don't care what happens to the other one. I find it horrifying that they went through all the work it takes to have a woman carry two babies for them when it turns out they only wanted the one that they share genes with. They don't sound like fit parents at all.

Who says they don't care about what happens to the other one? That is not what I heard. Even though each parent will raise one child, they plan on keeping the kids close to each other. How is this any worse than any parents who divorce and split the kids up? Sometimes, it just happens. Should one of the parents get both kids and the other parent nothing? As long as they plan on letting the kids grow up knowing and caring about each other, I don't see the problem. As for keeping the child with their genes, it seems as reasonable a way to figure this out as any other. Perhaps, in the future, they will figure out a way to have both kids spend time with each of the men. Right now, they are babies. Give them time.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Who says they don't care about what happens to the other one? That is not what I heard. Even though each parent will raise one child, they plan on keeping the kids close to each other. How is this any worse than any parents who divorce and split the kids up? Sometimes, it just happens. Should one of the parents get both kids and the other parent nothing? As long as they plan on letting the kids grow up knowing and caring about each other, I don't see the problem. As for keeping the child with their genes, it seems as reasonable a way to figure this out as any other. Perhaps, in the future, they will figure out a way to have both kids spend time with each of the men. Right now, they are babies. Give them time.

I agree. I'm sure they feel like this is the right way to handle the situation and I doubt the agreement was entered into as easily as "splitting up the China".

 

[IntoTheLight]

In California the courts have a process called a "pre-birth order." Which means that despite being born from two different bio fathers, an egg donor and a surrogate, the birth certificates of BOTH children are issued to BOTH fathers. That is why the courts now have to be involved. It's not as simple as "oh, I'm the bio-dad, I get this kid." The children's birth certificates have both dad's, regardless of genetics. The kids will absolutely know each other, since the birth certificates will never be amended unless there is an adoption.

There are a few states in the country that do this, few as seamlessly as CA, but they do. CA is popular for gay surrogacy for this reason.

In most cases, parents go through screenings with the fertility clinic and surrogacy agency before being accepted. Had they not been wealthy and famous the conversations would have gone differently most likely. Frankly I'm pretty disgusted at the professionals who said, "you don't like each other and want a divorce? Let's make you some babies!" I wish they would disclose who the professionals were who they hired.

 

[jrmasm]

Who says they don't care about what happens to the other one? That is not what I heard. Even though each parent will raise one child, they plan on keeping the kids close to each other. How is this any worse than any parents who divorce and split the kids up? Sometimes, it just happens. Should one of the parents get both kids and the other parent nothing? As long as they plan on letting the kids grow up knowing and caring about each other, I don't see the problem. As for keeping the child with their genes, it seems as reasonable a way to figure this out as any other. Perhaps, in the future, they will figure out a way to have both kids spend time with each of the men. Right now, they are babies. Give them time.

Unless children are old enough and mature enough to have an opinion about where they live, I do not think children should be split in a divorce.

 

[goofy4tink]

I just can't wrap my mind around two kids, born to the same mother, from the same pregnancy, that have different biological fathers, are considered twins. Not unless the general definition of twins is merely the resulting two children born from the same pregnancy.
I have no issue with the two kids being brought up in different households. Children are remarkably resilient. I imagine the will be just fine.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I just can't wrap my mind around two kids, born to the same mother, from the same pregnancy, that have different biological fathers, are considered twins. Not unless the general definition of twins is merely the resulting two children born from the same pregnancy.
I have no issue with the two kids being brought up in different households. Children are remarkably resilient. I imagine the will be just fine.

It's not the first case of fraternal twins with different fathers.