DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[nalababybear]

All good examples of one well treaded discussion of what CAN be used by a DAS holder. Whereas what happens in reality of average DAS is much different. Curtailing the DAS denominator to those with significant cognitive disabilities will certainly impact many, including those able to accomplish any of those scenarios

And Person G-ZZ. Ride 2-6 in the time available and doing non attractions during the interim. More likely than not, managing the underlying disability.

The math of DAS and former DAS reentering is the same load as before. Yes, your scenarios A-f of those double riding attractions rightly so were more appropriate AQR or other accommodation.

Yet, that aqr accommodation can be done the same for short rides and rejoin too, right? So take that away that too would be your answer using your stance.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

All good examples of one well treaded discussion of what CAN be used by a DAS holder. Whereas what happens in reality of average DAS is much different. Curtailing the DAS denominator to those with significant cognitive disabilities will certainly impact many, including those able to accomplish any of those scenarios

And Person G-ZZ. Ride 2-6 in the time available and doing non attractions during the interim. More likely than not, managing the underlying disability.

The math of DAS and former DAS reentering is the same load as before. Yes, your scenarios A-f of those double riding attractions rightly so were more appropriate AQR or other accommodation.

Yet, that aqr accommodation can be done the same for short rides and rejoin too, right? So take that away that too would be your answer using your stance.

I’d argue that AQR not so much, because the rest of the party cannot be in two places at once. So while AQR might help with the person who needs to rest in the shade, the guest probably isn’t going to go ride Mania and Swirling Saucers without their party, and everyone is likely to want to dine together.

Presumably all guests (DAS and former DAS) will need to manage their disabilities. But the former DAS now can’t use that time as waiting time. Ergo, they will ride fewer rides, which impacts wait times in the SB lines. And isn’t that what Disney is trying to accomplish? Slowing down the (over)use of the LL by pushing everyone who is able into the SB lines? Therefore, by definition, the math CANNOT be the same for all of the former DAS users.

Maybe someone else can explain what I’m missing because I really don’t understand what you are trying to say.

 

[dbriggsq]

While in some rare cases it might be about the accommodations not working, in nearly every complaint I've seen, both here and on other sites, it's been about not liking that parties have to split up, or not liking that they may have to start in the line and rejoin later, that the new accommodations won't be as easy as DAS, etc.

I've actually not seen or read of a single case where people tried the new accommodations and they flat out didn't work for them...just that they didn't like them.

YMMV

We haven’t tried the new accommodations but I know without doing that that they wouldn’t work for us, unless we can get a RTQ time at each attraction without having to get in the line

 

[CAPSLOCK]

And Person G-ZZ. Ride 2-6 in the time available and doing non attractions during the interim.

I believe the point being made is that they would be doing at least some of those "non attractions" regardless. Maybe they're taking in a show, sitting quietly, eating, moving between lands, browsing an AK animal trail. It doesn't matter that they're not "double dipping" riding a shorter SB ride with DAS, either way they are accomplishing something during the DAS wait that they wouldn't be if in a physical line. And most of those non attraction somethings will not be skipped entirely, they will happen before/after the SB wait if they can't be done during a DAS wait.

There are few if any parties who literally go from SB line to SB line without doing any non attractions. And since it takes time to walk between rides, even those who do, can't be in SB lines 100% of the time. But DAS parties could be "waiting" pretty much 100% of the time.

Thus there is a reduction in SB waits, since it's not a 1:1 ratio of time of DAS waiting to SB waiting.

 

[OurBigTrip]

We haven’t tried the new accommodations but I know without doing that that they wouldn’t work for us, unless we can get a RTQ time at each attraction without having to get in the line

Well, as those are supposed to be handled only sparingly, I wouldn't count on that. Perhaps they'll offer a way for part of your party to split up and then meet at the merge.

 

[lanejudy]

Maybe someone else can explain what I’m missing because I really don’t understand what you are trying to say.

Your examples all count "bodies" but the standby "wait" is minutes, not bodies. It is a difference. The standby wait time is about length of time from entrance to exit, which agreeably has to do with how quickly (or slowly) the number of bodies moves through both queues. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the body is in the standby queue or the LL, that body has impacted the standby wait time just the same. A body not in the queue is not impacting the standby to any significant degree, and if they are it's the absence of that body allowing the queue to move more quickly.

 

[dbriggsq]

Well, as those are supposed to be handled only sparingly, I wouldn't count on that. Perhaps they'll offer a way for part of your party to split up and then meet at the merge.

There usually only 2 of us so.....

 

[nalababybear]

I’d argue that AQR not so much, because the rest of the party cannot be in two places at once. So while AQR might help with the person who needs to rest in the shade, the guest probably isn’t going to go ride Mania and Swirling Saucers without their party, and everyone is likely to want to dine together.

Presumably all guests (DAS and former DAS) will need to manage their disabilities. But the former DAS now can’t use that time as waiting time. Ergo, they will ride fewer rides, which impacts wait times in the SB lines. And isn’t that what Disney is trying to accomplish? Slowing down the (over)use of the LL by pushing everyone who is able into the SB lines? Therefore, by definition, the math CANNOT be the same for all of the former DAS users.

Maybe someone else can explain what I’m missing because I really don’t understand what you are trying to say.

All convenient assumptions to fit your narrative.

The math was done above for the shift of riders. That shift from.LL to sb is a zero sum.

Your scenarios A-F are a different matter that yes impacts waits, yet a much less occurance than G-ZZZ, especially with the revamp.

 

[OurBigTrip]

There usually only 2 of us so.....

OK? So one can't wait in the line while the other waits outside the line?

 

[mhautz]

I've actually not seen or read of a single case where people tried the new accommodations and they flat out didn't work for them...just that they didn't like them.

My guess is other than people stubbornly trying to prove a point, a lot of prior DAS users are sucking it up and getting Genie+ or are being more selective in how they tour the parks to avoid the accommodations that they scoff at. Which is basically what everyone else does. Of course Disney wants to make money off of Genie+, but perhaps their biggest issue a few years ago was they should have ripped off the bandage of DAS limitations sooner when everyone else was dealing with similar reductions in services provided to them.

EDIT: Posted before I was done with my thoughts.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

The idea is that there is less "minutes" of time adding to either queue, with fewer DAS parties.

Or to put it another way, DAS party is in the park 4 hours. They spend 200min virtually queueing via DAS (or physically queuing/riding). They also eat a snack, use the restroom, stop to take photos of scenery, wander through a gift shop. Same party using AQR, they're still in the park 4hrs but they spend 140min physically queuing or reuniting then riding, spend 30min eating a snack, 10min using the restroom, 20min going between rides/taking scenic photos, and skip the gift shop. The SB wait is reduced since they aren't queuing (virtually or physically) for 60min. While they are doing non attractions.

 

[dbriggsq]

OK? So one can't wait in the line while the other waits outside the line?

That is a possibility but the one waiting in line is subject to transmissible infections and with the unreliability of WiFi in the park he might not know when I’m at the merge point - all quite stressful (and a bit miserable)

 

[OurBigTrip]

That is a possibility but the one waiting in line is subject to transmissible infections and with the unreliability of WiFi in the park he might not know when I’m at the merge point - all quite stressful (and a bit miserable)

You're going to be exposed to transmissible infections from the time you leave your house to get to Disney until you get back home. I'm not Disney, so obviously I can't say for certain whether this would be an approved reason for a DAS, but I would assume not, because exposure can come anywhere, not just in the standby line.

 

[Karin1984]

Businesses are in business to make money, period.

Currently studying to get my master and my Sustainability teacher would disagree with you. It's quite a 1970s opinion to say that the only responsibility a company has is to make money. Nowadays, the opinion of scholars is: to be sustainable in the long run you have to keep a balance with social and environmental aspects as well, not just economical.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Currently studying to get my master and my Sustainability teacher would disagree with you. It's quite a 1970s opinion to say that the only responsibility a company has is to make money. Nowadays, the opinion of scholars is: to be sustainable in the long run you have to keep a balance with social and environmental aspects as well, not just economical.

Yay for the scholars. Fact is, companies have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to make as much profit as possible. If a company believes that making social and sustainability changes will help them increase profit, they'll do it, otherwise they won't.

 

[dbriggsq]

You're going to be exposed to transmissible infections from the time you leave your house to get to Disney until you get back home. I'm not Disney, so obviously I can't say for certain whether this would be an approved reason for a DAS, but I would assume not, because exposure can come anywhere, not just in the standby line.

Absolutely and we realise that. We take as many precautions as we can but the one we can’t mitigate against is standing in close proximity to other people for extended amounts of time (and with the cast members shouting out ‘fill in all the available space’). And we won’t know until we arrive in the US whether it will be allowed, by which time we’ve spent $1000’s on airfare, committed our DVC points (which are forfeited on check in), and bought our annual passes (we’ve been told the places to apply for DAS are inside the parks).

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Your examples all count "bodies" but the standby "wait" is minutes, not bodies. It is a difference. The standby wait time is about length of time from entrance to exit, which agreeably has to do with how quickly (or slowly) the number of bodies moves through both queues. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the body is in the standby queue or the LL, that body has impacted the standby wait time just the same. A body not in the queue is not impacting the standby to any significant degree, and if they are it's the absence of that body allowing the queue to move more quickly.

Respectfully, you are adding bodies to either line that would not be there otherwise, which adds to wait times. That’s what AQR doesn’t really impact times nearly as much as DAS does, because DAS waits do other things that allow people to ride more rides for all of the reasons above (double dipping or simply not having to take line time out to eat, shop, rest, or tend to disabilities).

I totally agree that if most of the party goes through the SB line it doesn’t matter that one or two people join them at the merge point through the LL.

But that’s not the same thing as saying that DAS doesn’t impact SB wait times.

 

[mistysue]

I think the bottom line for some of the arguments about whether DAS gives a "time bonus", is possibly also coming from a misunderstanding of what a fully non-disabled group accomplishes in a typical day in the parks. (by some, not ALL)

In days when everyone in my party is doing well, we might still arrive 2 hours later than planned, or need to take off at 3 PM, or run into a random issue that sucks 3 hours out of the middle of the day. Someone loses a magic band, we leave the popcorn bucket behind, I twist my ankle again and half hop half crawl to the wheelchair rental, etc. That's just normal life. We all like to believe the grass is greener, but sometimes it's not nearly as green as we think it is.
Recently I saw what to me was an interesting report. It was essentially a complaint that they were staying rope drop through close and still couldn't get on EVERYTHING, but the idea was it's unfair because with DAS they could have. Part of this may have been disability related, but this is a non-disabled problem too. It shows a general misunderstanding of how easy the lives of others are. We still have shows and areas at each park we have never gotten around to, and we're at least a good 30-40 trips in as a family. I'm sure we could all agree there is a huge difference between someone who waits 15 minutes in line and is out for an hour from it, and a person who wants an alternative to lines because every 15 or so lines has a 30 minute issue. The latter example is probably someone who, legitimate diagnosis or not, might be on fairly level ground with a typical person without any diagnosis to mention.

This does not mean their lived experience is not difficult, or that it is not hard for them. I just think sometimes we get so involved in what makes our personal experience hard we don't notice it's not all sunshine and roses for everyone else.

Disney has the data about how much usage people were getting with DAS, and they know how many rides with how much frequency, and for how long of duration people were staying in the parks utilizing the system. THAT is what informed them it was time to trim the system.

Edit - spelled ground wrong

 

[lanejudy]

we’ve been told the places to apply for DAS are inside the parks

You can do the video chat from the comfort of your hotel room before entering a park. Many non-US posters have suggested using a VPN. While I understand there is no DAS chat link from the EU/UK websites, the US site no longer indicates “US only.”

 

[nalababybear]

I believe the point being made is that they would be doing at least some of those "non attractions" regardless. Maybe they're taking in a show, sitting quietly, eating, moving between lands, browsing an AK animal trail. It doesn't matter that they're not "double dipping" riding a shorter SB ride with DAS, either way they are accomplishing something during the DAS wait that they wouldn't be if in a physical line. And most of those non attraction somethings will not be skipped entirely, they will happen before/after the SB wait if they can't be done during a DAS wait.

There are few if any parties who literally go from SB line to SB line without doing any non attractions. And since it takes time to walk between rides, even those who do, can't be in SB lines 100% of the time. But DAS parties could be "waiting" pretty much 100% of the time.

Thus there is a reduction in SB waits, since it's not a 1:1 ratio of time of DAS waiting to SB waiting.

True point, and that's part of the sprinkle of pixie dust that so.many folk being offramped DAS is lamenting about along with the splitting of parties.

Ironically many former DAS holders simply go without now.

and the remaining parties hit that many more rides, impacting wait times more that way instead of waiting with the.former holder.

We know that wait times are relatively inflated in the first place for several reasons, so more physical able bodies riding from former DAS parties can lengthen sb wait times in as much as earlier scenarios