DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[JLTraveling]

Reasonable accommodation isn't limited by how often one goes someplace. A wheelchair user needs a ramp not just for a one time visit, but every time. A person's developmentally-related needs don't change because one is on vacation vs using an AP.

This! My dad has a higher-level accommodation at Universal. One time years ago, he tried to get it for Halloween Horror Nights. The front line team member tried to say that the particular accommodation was "not available for HHN." It took a supervisor to explain to him that people don't stop being disabled after the sun sets!

 

[Philsfan77]

No evidence of 8% of guests and certainly 24% using LL .

Son has been a parkgoer since age 2 with GAC/DAS - it is only an occasional time when we have a DAS within 2-3 parties of us.

At 24%, we should be seeing this literally every single ride tap in. Not even close.

I would strongly venture a guess, that Disney has the Data to back this up, hence the change. They clearly crossed a threshold, that they feel will allow them to hold up in court (like they did with their GAC Data they provided) that says the current system was not sustainable and a detriment to the current operations of their business. When they provided their GAC data they said 3.3% of guests were qualifying for that feature, their data at that time was that on average the party size was 3 guests. When this current announcement rolled out regarding the need to change the system, it was stated that DAS use has tripled in the last 5 years (which would be from right around the time that they provided the data for the GAC lawsuit).

While you personally may not see it, they've provided the data before that they had during the last lawsuit and based on statements about the rise in use over the last 5 years, it's a reasonable estimate that those current numbers are accurate...and I would guess, we will eventually see them when the inevitable lawsuits come down the pike after this change.

 

[Keladry84]

You sure put a lot of words in my mouth and mischaracterized me for doing simple math.

You hit the problem by yourself thought, a lot of people who DAS isn't designed for are using it. Thus getting a better experience. This is a fact, and not me making it up to be mean to disabled folks like you imply. OBVIOUSLY these people aren't who really do need DAS. Disney is attempting to remove the DAS accommodation from these specific people, who don't need DAS to make the parks possible. Because as you said yourself, DAS should only be used by those who literally can't do 3 queue lines back-to-back.

So, thanks for helping my argument, even if you called me ableist as well.

I was actually trying to word it to NOT call you ableist - so my apologies if that is how you interpreted it. The point I am trying to make is that by focusing the narrative about DAS solely on what it could be used for by someone who doesn't need it is damaging to those who do, and further drives the incentive to abuse it.

 

[Keladry84]

That isn't a statement we can make nor infer. It would be damaging (to use your words) in itself to assume that of a guest and could be quite insulting to any given individual to presume their physical and mental capacities based on their approval of a program at a point in time from a theme park and their ability to tour that theme park. Obviously people can speak to their own experiences or that of those they personally know as they are discussing their own experiences/personal knowledge.

Thank you for bringing that up regarding my wording. That isn't what I was intending to communicate, but I am also not sure how to word what I want to say.

 

[CT Disney]

No evidence of 8% of guests and certainly 24% using LL .

Son has been a parkgoer since age 2 with GAC/DAS - it is only an occasional time when we have a DAS within 2-3 parties of us.

At 24%, we should be seeing this literally every single ride tap in. Not even close.

Disney has gone on record saying that DAS distribution has tripled in the last 5 years. If the percentage is 8% now, that would put the previous DAS usage percentage somewhere between 2.5-3%.

If you’re saying the current estimate of 8% is too high, then you’re also saying the DAS usage percentage 5 years ago was significantly less than 2.5% which I doubt is accurate.

 

[OurBigTrip]

No evidence of 8% of guests and certainly 24% using LL .

Son has been a parkgoer since age 2 with GAC/DAS - it is only an occasional time when we have a DAS within 2-3 parties of us.

At 24%, we should be seeing this literally every single ride tap in. Not even close.

How do you know who the DAS users are?

 

[Philsfan77]

Disney has gone on record saying that DAS distribution has tripled in the last 5 years. If the percentage is 8% now, that would put the previous DAS usage percentage somewhere between 2.5-3%.

If you’re saying the current estimate of 8% is too high, then you’re also saying the DAS usage percentage 5 years ago was significantly less than 2.5% which I doubt is accurate.

It was 3.3%...we have the data from the GAC lawsuit.

 

[SueM in MN]

It is my understanding that Disney looked at the massive increase in DAS and calculated that the entire capacity of the new Splash Mountain opening would be used up by DAS users, with zero places left for any boarding groups or ILLs. As such they were forced to confront the monster they had created before the ride reopened.

This is from the podcast with Len Testa who had been speaking to people at Disney.

That doesn't make sense if they do Tiana's Bayou Adventure the same way they have done other openings with virtual queue.
Guests using DAS need to obtain a Virtual Queue spot the same way as all other guests do. Having DAS doesn't figure in at all until their Boarding Group is called. Guests using DAS are able to connect with a CM at the attraction to obtain a Lightning Lane entry AFTER their Boarding Group has been called

That doesn’t entirely make sense to me though with how the VQ and DAS have historically interacted. I’m having a hard time articulating here what I’m thinking honestly. But it’s always been you can have a VQ and a DAS at the same time which looking at the webpage that doesn’t seem to have been changed

Where as what it seems like your or they’re inferring here is that you would no longer be able to request a spot for the VQs without locking yourself out of your DAS entirely. Because it’s now your one DAS slot.

Like I would be surprised if TBB has something to do with this to be clear. Them expecting an increase in demand wouldn’t be a surprise

But what’s being said here only works if the DAS user is only using the DAS for the ride not the VQ. Because you only get the DAS after you approach the ride after the VQ group comes up. So DAS wouldn’t be a factor unless their planning something that’s nowhere I can find

True

It's already been covered multiple times on these boards, but there are flaws in how those numbers were calculated. They used one ride and one convenient piece of evidence in a previous court case by Disney. Those families who use DAS can tell you with certainty that they see almost no one else around them scanning in with DAS. The majority of those in the LL are Genie+, $LL or Rider Swap users. It's easy to tell by the color of scan in for LL. DAS users do not take up 70 percent of existing ride spaces over a day. That's completely false.

I'm reposting what I posted way back on page 204 since a lot of people didn't see it.

Disney has decided they need to make changes to DAS. We don't know exactly what data they based this on and it doesn't really matter. Only Disney knows what information they have, They have a right to make changes.
Some of the things that are generally accepted as true include:

• People have posted on information on TikTok and other public sources telling how to falsely obtain DAS and maximize use of DAS
• Some people registered for DAS are selling access to their Friends & Family slots linked to their DAS (acting as tour guides)

I read that post and since people are quoting his numbers as absolute truth, I think it's good/fair to question how he came up with them.

There has been a lot of discussion on this thread, with a lot of people accepting everything he has written as 'Proof'. I am pointing out some things here and don't think this 'proof' should be discussed here anymore.
ONLY DISNEY KNOWS THE ACTUAL NUMBER, anything else is a guess.

He had people watching everyone who entered a particular attraction at a particular 1 hour time of day on 9/13/2023. His people were just counting numbers entering the Standby and LL entrance. Those may or may not reflect what goes on other times, especially for guests using DAS.

He's making a lot of assumptions to come up with his figures. His assumptions included:

• Observations made reflected what would be seen other times of day (his observations were made between 5 and 9pm).
• That his observations were correct (for example, Haunted Mansion between 5 and 6pm, they reported counting 710 entering the Standby line and 923 in the LL).
• The small number of guests on VIP tours during the observation times reflected VIP tour use. I've personally seen 2 or 3 groups of VIP tours getting on an attraction during the few minutes I'm getting on an attraction during the day on some days. I personally would expect more VIP tours during the day and fewer in the evening.
• attractions have a maximum capacity of 300 per hour for Genie+ allocation, which is a static number. He admits that number should be taken with a grain of salt. He/we don't know whether ALL attractions have the same Genie+ allocation per hour AND/OR whether the allocation per hour is the same for all hours of the day.
• Genie+ has a 1 hour return time, so the guest using LL during his count included/assumed only the 300 Genie+ allocated for that hour. Guests frequently post that they were able to use Genie+ 5 minutes before and 15 minutes after their 1 hour window. The 'unknowable' part is how many in his count included people using that 'expanded window'
• There is no way to count Rider Swap (which he conceded) or people using LL with Guest Recovery Passes (for example, if Space Mountain had been down for a while, guests who had Genie+ while the ride was down might have gotten a Guest Recovery Pass allowing entry into another attraction).

He's extrapolating all that to come up with his numbers. A few numbers/assumptions being different would make a big difference in the end result.
Some other confounding factors include:

• guests with a DAS Return Time have a beginning time to use it, but it can be used any time after that until the attraction or park closes. So, people using DAS during the one hour observation period could have received that Return Time many hours before.
• guests with disabilities don't use all attractions equally. Many have disabilities that make attractions like Space Mountain or 7 Dwarfs inappropriate for them.

 

[StarLime]

Not sure if this was already mentioned - but I’ve read in other forums you can call and see if you would qualify if you’re not within the 30 days. Others have been doing this to see if they would theoretically qualify for their specific conditions. This could be helpful for those, such as myself, who are skeptical about booking a trip due to the changes.

Though I’m sure this could vary based on the CM, but it’s still worth a try.

 

[figmentfan423]

Has anybody heard anything about adults with level 2/3 autism prone to meltdowns requiring medication who need somebody else to advocate for them as they can't do so for themselves. We've always just did GS first day

 

[nalababybear]

I would strongly venture a guess, that Disney has the Data to back this up, hence the change. They clearly crossed a threshold, that they feel will allow them to hold up in court (like they did with their GAC Data they provided) that says the current system was not sustainable and a detriment to the current operations of their business. When they provided their GAC data they said 3.3% of guests were qualifying for that feature, their data at that time was that on average the party size was 3 guests. When this current announcement rolled out regarding the need to change the system, it was stated that DAS use has tripled in the last 5 years (which would be from right around the time that they provided the data for the GAC lawsuit).

While you personally may not see it, they've provided the data before that they had during the last lawsuit and based on statements about the rise in use over the last 5 years, it's a reasonable estimate that those current numbers are accurate...and I would guess, we will eventually see them when the inevitable lawsuits come down the pike after this change.

True. so is throwing out data like 8% and 24% utilization without clear support. Our experience is our experience---over decades. And can reliably reflect and attest that DAS utilization; while up, is nowhere as claimed as fact.

Yes, LL times have blossomed over the years to the point where as DAS holders, we routinely bail out of the wait he so patiently waited because our son simply cannot do 20+min lines for the safety of himself as well as other parkgoers. --- DAS utilization can be, and probably is a contributor to that. It's not 24%.

I'm sure some lawsuit will be attempted. This isn't a wholesale revamp of the program like GAC to DAS was. It is certainly narrowing the breadth and offering alternate accommodations again. Whether it will reach the courts or not, TBD.

 

[starlite_]

But if I feel I must buy Genie+ at this point, I would definitely be maximizing my investment and book every single ride offered… Slinky? SF? TOT? Other feature attractions? Never ride them… but you can bet I’d be booking them. Since I won’t actually ride it I can book it again. And again. Since I ride so few attractions, I can at least maximize my ability to book everything available regardless of my ability to ride.

Haven’t tried for any VQ since Rise opened years ago. Never had a need since I’m not able to ride any currently offered. Since I’m throwing extra money at Disney, though, you can bet I’ll be aiming for those slots, too. Won’t ride, of course, but happy to know I have a slot since I paid for it.

If Disney wants to monetize me as a DAS, I will feel entitled to maximize that investment… just like all those healthy able bodied folks in the parks… whether I leave at noon having done 2 attractions or not. I can continue to book time slots.

Soooo if Disney doesn't give you the accommodation you want you will be super petty by using up access other guests want that you don't need while at the same time getting on less rides you actually want so you can use that access? Not gonna lie, it sounds really messed up so I hope that's not what you meant.

 

[Angel Ariel]

For guests that have experienced Disney before and are previous DAS holders, these accommodations/suggestions/gaslighting are going to be difficult to accept because they know a better version of DAS exists/existed and they've experienced it.

I want to be clear - I'm fine with accepting change and shifting my perspective. Semper Gumby (always flexible) is pretty much a guiding mantra in my life.

That said - I'm not ok with gaslighting about accommodations because it's gaslighting, and that's wrong no matter what the context.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This! My dad has a higher-level accommodation at Universal. One time years ago, he tried to get it for Halloween Horror Nights. The front line team member tried to say that the particular accommodation was "not available for HHN." It took a supervisor to explain to him that people don't stop being disabled after the sun sets!

That's true but that does not mean all experiences are conducive for all accommodations especially if it's in respects to the safety of that guest and those around them. It sounds like your dad was still able to use the accommodation for HHN but HHN is also very different than a normal park day even a normal park day at night. This applies to everyday stuff too.

It would be quite logical and reasonable to disclaimer that not all experiences are able to be accommodated so it very well can be that while you obviously don't stop being disabled after the sun sets, what your accommodation was (or speaking about everyday life what you used/did) may be unavailable depending on the circumstances and would have nothing to do with a person of course who doesn't stop being disabled because xyz.

 

[nalababybear]

@SueM in MN -

We're going to DLR this weekend - perhaps I should stand by space mountain for an hour and see how many tap in and count out the ones with DAS there as clearly 'stairs needed' inquiry is a hard stop for all DAS tapins - no exceptions.

And repeat again at Mania for same reasons. Post them and be done with the evidence posted as truth.

Crazy how folk latch onto a single incidence that overrides all logic -- so is the internet these days.

 

[starlite_]

True. so is throwing out data like 8% and 24% utilization without clear support.

It's not 24%.

You are falling into the same trap you are warning against. No one but Disney knows ANY concrete and true numbers. As it is we can't say for certain whether DAS use takes up 8% capacity, or 24% capacity. AND we can't say it doesn't take 8% capacity or 24% capacity.

It's Schrodinger's DAS use.

 

[nalababybear]

That's true but that does not mean all experiences are conducive for all accommodations especially if it's in respects to the safety of that guest and those around them. It sounds like your dad was still able to use the accommodation for HHN but HHN is also very different than a normal park day even a normal park day at night. This applies to everyday stuff too.

It would be quite logical and reasonable to disclaimer that not all experiences are able to be accommodated so it very well can be that while you obviously don't stop being disabled after the sun sets, what your accommodation was (or speaking about everyday life what you used/did) may be unavailable depending on the circumstances and would have nothing to do with a person of course who doesn't stop being disabled because xyz.

True - the level of accommodation may not be available; but it is. That's a training issue as clearly it is available.

Same for Disney - not all CMs are aware of DAS at special events. Or extra hours and how that works with DAS either. - so training issue is more often than not the sticking point at ground level.

 

[shaqfor3]

Soooo if Disney doesn't give you the accommodation you want you will be super petty by using up access other guests want that you don't need while at the same time getting on less rides you actually want so you can use that access? Not gonna lie, it sounds really messed up so I hope that's not what you meant.

So if you go to a buffet and there is an item that runs out fast and you don't like it, you grab it anyway because you pay for it, even though is going directly into the trash bin.

 

[PrincessV]

Avoiding the back and forthing and getting back to what the new options are…

My condition is non-physical and the symptoms that make spending more than a short amount of time in a traditional line problematic are very much in line with many of those that cause lines to be problematic for people on the ASD spectrum. My next handful of park days will still be covered by a DAS activated under Old Rules, so I’m good there. But I’m curious about how RTQ would work - and IF it will actually be an option - for someone like me if denied, so if we don’t see many real-life reports before then, I’m willing to try it out on my next park day in a few weeks.

I’ll be solo and I’m only visiting for the chance of getting into the AP preview for Tiana’s, so I’ll have no plans in place and nothing I especially need or want to do most of the day - I’m game for taking the time to see if RTQ would work for someone like me! Because if it does, awesome: I’m happy to do that instead of using DAS.

ETA: it’s also possible that a friend may join me some of the day, and that friend isn’t in my DAS party, so I maaay be able to see how RTQ works for more than one adult in play - if my friend is up for it.

 

[nalababybear]

You are falling into the same trap you are warning against. No one but Disney knows ANY concrete and true numbers. As it is we can't say for certain whether DAS use takes up 8% capacity, or 24% capacity. AND we can't say it doesn't take 8% capacity or 24% capacity.

It's Schrodinger's DAS use.

True -- hence tempted to dispell the 'truth' of the often misrepresented truth

It is a point being made time over again, Disney has the numbers and reality is LL queues are simply too long for all stakeholders.