DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[cdobert]

Just registered my son for DAS under the new system (we've been going since it was GAC); total call time was under 10 minutes. Cast member was very kind and considerate of my down's syndrome son.

 

[ocdb8r1]

DAS was abused and too broad for what it was intended.

After all the months of posts and trying to be an empathetic human absorbing them, THIS summarizes a lot of what I take away.

Although, I think I would say "DAS was too broad for what it was intended which also opened it up to rampant abuse." My takeaway is that DAS became a single catch-all "accommodation" band-aid for any of the MANY legitimate disabilities that exist in the world....so much so that many have come to believe it is the sole acceptable accommodation for all of these legitimate disabilities. Disney realized the single catch-all approach not only led to many more people with legitimate disabilities having "front of the line" access than was necessary to acceptably accommodate them, but also opened the system to rampant abuse given it was practically the single catch-all accommodation on offer. In summary, a bit of a mess created by Disney to start with and exacerbated by abusers.

The one positive takeaway I see (as someone not directly affected, so I say this with as much humility as I can), is that Disney appears to be now trying to go down a path to better understand the breadth of disabilities out there and create a variety of tailored accommodations. Yes, there are clearly teething problems, but I think in the end it's a better path to take and can only hope they continually improve it over time.

 

[nalababybear]

After all the months of posts and trying to be an empathetic human absorbing them, THIS summarizes a lot of what I take away.

Although, I think I would say "DAS was too broad for what it was intended which also opened it up to rampant abuse." My takeaway is that DAS became a single catch-all "accommodation" band-aid for any of the MANY legitimate disabilities that exist in the world....so much so that many have come to believe it is the sole acceptable accommodation for all of these legitimate disabilities. Disney realized the single catch-all approach not only led to many more people with legitimate disabilities having "front of the line" access than was necessary to acceptably accommodate them, but also opened the system to rampant abuse given it was practically the single catch-all accommodation on offer. In summary, a bit of a mess created by Disney to start with and exacerbated by abusers.

The one positive takeaway I see (as someone not directly affected, so I say this with as much humility as I can), is that Disney appears to be now trying to go down a path to better understand the breadth of disabilities out there and create a variety of tailored accommodations. Yes, there are clearly teething problems, but I think in the end it's a better path to take and can only hope they continually improve it over time.

Couple of things.

DAS is NOT a front of line level accommodation.

Disney intentionally used DAS as a catch all accommodation. This often led to an overaccommodation which Disney was fine with until it started to consistently impact LL wait times....others without disabilities often view this as biased and unfair pixie dusting.

Disney pivoted back to a tiered accommodation system with AQR, expansion Rider switch purposes and empowering ride entrance CMs to make case-by-case decisions at the ride.

Disney has understood the equity issue for a long time. Their level of pixie dusting no longer was sustainable to core.operations and a change was needed.

 

[ocdb8r1]

Couple of things.

DAS is NOT a front of line level accommodation.

Disney intentionally used DAS as a catch all accommodation. This often led to an overaccommodation which Disney was fine with until it started to consistently impact LL wait times....others without disabilities often view this as biased and unfair pixie dusting.

Disney pivoted back to a tiered accommodation system with AQR, expansion Rider switch purposes and empowering ride entrance CMs to make case-by-case decisions at the ride.

Disney has understood the equity issue for a long time. Their level of pixie dusting no longer was sustainable to core.operations and a change was needed.

People on this site love to argue just for the sake of it. I put "front of line" in quotations precisely because it's not truly front of line; I'm glad you also have sufficient additional insight into the Disney organization to be certain they INTENDED the previous version of DAS to over-accommodate people as a measure of "pixie dust" (as opposed to my asinine assumption it was rolled out in 2013 to address the GAC abuse that was happening at that time). No idea how this is a "pivot back" to "tiered" accommodation given GAC was even easier to get and more permissive (no reservations necessary).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Disney intentionally used DAS as a catch all accommodation.

I wouldn't say they intentionally used it as a catch all, that would imply that every person who had any sort of disability regardless of what it was (meaning wasn't protected by any laws or affect on one's life) or could explain an issue with the queue (a key part of the discussion as not all conditions equal disabilities) was always part of it. That is definitely not the case. The company over recent years (less than 10 years seems to be more the last 5-6 or so years) came under a lot of pressure from a lot of people with a wide variety of conditions that requested approval. Disney themselves spoke to that point (the sheer increase of DAS guests) and it cannot just be explained away but the population's disability stats that has been discussed before.

The catch all part seems much more to be that once they approved you they did not have different types of accommodations, the side effect is that they were looser over time for the approval. These two points together meant that more individuals had DAS that did in years past. It does not mean that they intended DAS to provide an accommodation for every guest's request, we already saw mobility conditions be majority off the DAS program but not every guest who requested DAS was granted it even after accounting for mobility not being part of the guest's situation.

 

[jennab]

After all the months of posts and trying to be an empathetic human absorbing them, THIS summarizes a lot of what I take away.

Although, I think I would say "DAS was too broad for what it was intended which also opened it up to rampant abuse." My takeaway is that DAS became a single catch-all "accommodation" band-aid for any of the MANY legitimate disabilities that exist in the world....so much so that many have come to believe it is the sole acceptable accommodation for all of these legitimate disabilities. Disney realized the single catch-all approach not only led to many more people with legitimate disabilities having "front of the line" access than was necessary to acceptably accommodate them, but also opened the system to rampant abuse given it was practically the single catch-all accommodation on offer. In summary, a bit of a mess created by Disney to start with and exacerbated by abusers.

The one positive takeaway I see (as someone not directly affected, so I say this with as much humility as I can), is that Disney appears to be now trying to go down a path to better understand the breadth of disabilities out there and create a variety of tailored accommodations. Yes, there are clearly teething problems, but I think in the end it's a better path to take and can only hope they continually improve it over time.

Yes exactly! People keep screaming that there couldn’t have been THAT much abuse. The reality is, it’s not the abusers who broke the system, it’s that there were just too many people getting DAS which was affecting disabled and non disabled park goers.

 

[traveler9]

Yes exactly! People keep screaming that there couldn’t have been THAT much abuse. The reality is, it’s not the abusers who broke the system, it’s that there were just too many people getting DAS which was affecting disabled and non disabled park goers.

Maybe not, but abusers were certainly part of the problem. Just look at TikTok.

 

[nalababybear]

People on this site love to argue just for the sake of it. I put "front of line" in quotations precisely because it's nit.

Lol. " " makes okay to use then, right? Not going to rehash all this again for your amusement scroll through the thread.

Love to argue? Black pot and all

 

[jennab]

Maybe not, but abusers were certainly part of the problem. Just look at TikTok.

Yes but I wouldn’t say they were even the majority. The majority of DAS users had legitimate disabilities.

 

[nalababybear]

I wouldn't say they intentionally used it as a catch all, that would imply that every person who had any sort of disability regardless of what it was (meaning wasn't protected by any laws or affect on one's life) or could explain an issue with the queue (a key part of the discussion as not all conditions equal disabilities) was always part of it. That is definitely not the case. The company over recent years (less than 10 years seems to be more the last 5-6 or so years) came under a lot of pressure from a lot of people with a wide variety of conditions that requested approval. Disney themselves spoke to that point (the sheer increase of DAS guests) and it cannot just be explained away but the population's disability stats that has been discussed before.

The catch all part seems much more to be that once they approved you they did not have different types of accommodations, the side effect is that they were looser over time for the approval. These two points together meant that more individuals had DAS that did in years past. It does not mean that they intended DAS to provide an accommodation for every guest's request, we already saw mobility conditions be majority off the DAS program but not every guest who requested DAS was granted it even after accounting for mobility not being part of the guest's situation.

True. You're much more eloquent.

It didn't start off that way at the point of cag to DAS.

It Ultimately became a catch-all and that's what ultimately caused a jam on LL queues and Disney to revamp

 

[lowlight]

I wonder if Len has redone his experiment to see percentage of LL use by DAS since the change.

 

[traveler9]

Yes but I wouldn’t say they were even the majority. The majority of DAS users had legitimate disabilities.

Apparently it got bad enough for Disney to start trespassing third party tour guides.

 

[jennab]

Apparently it got bad enough for Disney to start trespassing third party tour guides.

Well I mean anyone who is caught lying to get DAS should be trespassed. It is in the rules that people can be banned for lying to obtain DAS.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Apparently it got bad enough for Disney to start trespassing third party tour guides.

Yep, “go tell them you have IBS and they’ll give you a DAS” was apparently step 1 of many of those third party tours. And no risk of a ban there, as it is almost impossible to prove that someone does NOT have IBS. If not for the DAS abuse, Disney would probably have been happy about the third party tour guides, helping people navigate through the parks and with buying and using LLMP, making ADRs, and so on.

 

[PrincessV]

DAS chat seems to be down - or maybe it’s the video chat component that’s down. It figures: this morning is the only time I have available to do it ahead of a planned WDW visit this weekend, but after getting through the initial prompts and getting an agent, I get the message that they’re “experiencing magical enhancements” and are unavailable at this time, try again later.

 

[Philsfan77]

DAS chat seems to be down - or maybe it’s the video chat component that’s down. It figures: this morning is the only time I have available to do it ahead of a planned WDW visit this weekend, but after getting through the initial prompts and getting an agent, I get the message that they’re “experiencing magical enhancements” and are unavailable at this time, try again later.

I know all of their systems were having technology issues yesterday as well.

 

[PrincessV]

I finally got through… and had an “approval” unlike any I’ve seen reported before. For background, I’m a semi-local AP at WDW who does some single day visits and some multi-day trips each year.

I described what happens to me in long lines etc. and my problems with lines are severe enough that they DO want me to use DAS - that was made clear… but they also don’t technically meet full DAS approval criteria, so I was approved for a single day at a time and will need to reapply every day I wish to visit - and only if I’m visiting solo. I have some multi-day trips planned, but it doesn’t matter: I was told to do the chat each day I want to visit. So in practical terms, if I were visiting Sept. 10, 11, 12, and 13, I’d need to chat to get the 10th approved, visit that day, and then chat again on the 11th. Rinse and repeat for the 12th and 13th. And again, this is only when I’m solo (which is most of the time) - any time I might be visiting with others I’d be denied.*

I did mention - politely! - that I’ve not seen this kind of accomodation mentioned anywhere, so I was a little thrown. I thought APs were to be approved for 120 days? Only if the AP meets certain criteria, apparently. They also told me that CMs can also only be approved one day at a time. (I am not a CM.)

We talked about the logistics of that and I said that it took several hours to get through today due to technical issues, and I don’t usually have ANY time in my daily life to do it, even if it goes straight through, so I’ll probably just use AQR instead. The CM tried to dissuade me from that, saying I certainly can, but that it would require asking at every attraction and some CMs/some rides won’t be willing to do anything, so it will be better for me to do the DAS chat every time. Of course, that assumes I’d be approved every time and no one can guarantee that, so I’m not seeing how doing a daily DAS chat is better. That was really odd to me.

I’m kind of stunned. I was prepared to be approved, or rejected - I was NOT prepared for something in-between! Not sure what I’ll do with this. Realistically, calling every day I plan to visit isn’t going to happen: my issues are very hard to talk about without triggering the issue itself and that is not something I wish to do every morning of a vacation. I think I’ll continue trying AQR, hitting rides when lines are short, buying ILL or whatever they’re called now if and when I have the money and inclination for individual rides, and honestly - just not doing some rides anymore, I guess. Like I did before a CM suggested I try DAS, ironically. Maybe if I’m feeling up to it, I’ll try doing the chat in the park some days, where I’d expect to be sent through the queue more quickly.

*It also occurs to me that sometimes people in my F&F list visit WDW on the same day as me, but we might only see each other for a meal - I’d still be solo for rides - would the fact that we have park reservations on the same day mean I couldn’t get DAS that day? IDK but maybe I’ll need to dump the few friends I have in my F&F list to avoid that issue.

Frankly, this is just more than I wish to think about for a day at WDW. I don’t plan ahead, I don’t buy MultiGenieFP++, I don’t make ADRs - I visit when I feel like visiting with as little fuss involved as possible and am unwilling to change that. In the end, I’m glad I downgraded my AP when I renewed recently and just won’t go to WDW at busy times anymore.

 

[mistysue]

I finally got through… and had an “approval” unlike any I’ve seen reported before. For background, I’m a semi-local AP at WDW who does some single day visits and some multi-day trips each year.

I described what happens to me in long lines etc. and my problems with lines are severe enough that they DO want me to use DAS - that was made clear… but they also don’t technically meet full DAS approval criteria, so I was approved for a single day at a time and will need to reapply every day I wish to visit - and only if I’m visiting solo. I have some multi-day trips planned, but it doesn’t matter: I was told to do the chat each day I want to visit. So in practical terms, if I were visiting Sept. 10, 11, 12, and 13, I’d need to chat to get the 10th approved, visit that day, and then chat again on the 11th. Rinse and repeat for the 12th and 13th. And again, this is only when I’m solo (which is most of the time) - any time I might be visiting with others I’d be denied.*

I did mention - politely! - that I’ve not seen this kind of accomodation mentioned anywhere, so I was a little thrown. I thought APs were to be approved for 120 days? Only if the AP meets certain criteria, apparently. They also told me that CMs can also only be approved one day at a time. (I am not a CM.)

We talked about the logistics of that and I said that it took several hours to get through today due to technical issues, and I don’t usually have ANY time in my daily life to do it, even if it goes straight through, so I’ll probably just use AQR instead. The CM tried to dissuade me from that, saying I certainly can, but that it would require asking at every attraction and some CMs/some rides won’t be willing to do anything, so it will be better for me to do the DAS chat every time. Of course, that assumes I’d be approved every time and no one can guarantee that, so I’m not seeing how doing a daily DAS chat is better. That was really odd to me.

I’m kind of stunned. I was prepared to be approved, or rejected - I was NOT prepared for something in-between! Not sure what I’ll do with this. Realistically, calling every day I plan to visit isn’t going to happen: my issues are very hard to talk about without triggering the issue itself and that is not something I wish to do every morning of a vacation. I think I’ll continue trying AQR, hitting rides when lines are short, buying ILL or whatever they’re called now if and when I have the money and inclination for individual rides, and honestly - just not doing some rides anymore, I guess. Like I did before a CM suggested I try DAS, ironically. Maybe if I’m feeling up to it, I’ll try doing the chat in the park some days, where I’d expect to be sent through the queue more quickly.

*It also occurs to me that sometimes people in my F&F list visit WDW on the same day as me, but we might only see each other for a meal - I’d still be solo for rides - would the fact that we have park reservations on the same day mean I couldn’t get DAS that day? IDK but maybe I’ll need to dump the few friends I have in my F&F list to avoid that issue.

Frankly, this is just more than I wish to think about for a day at WDW. I don’t plan ahead, I don’t buy MultiGenieFP++, I don’t make ADRs - I visit when I feel like visiting with as little fuss involved as possible and am unwilling to change that. In the end, I’m glad I downgraded my AP when I renewed recently and just won’t go to WDW at busy times anymore.

That is super weird, and really can't even be responded to much without speculation.

I'm hoping your visit goes well. I would suspect they are trying out an experiment to see if this helps them figure out people who are in a fuzzy grey area and whether they need it - in terms of are you getting it sort of as a "backup comfort tool" vs are you getting it to "overuse it"? Maybe after a couple conversations they would approve or reject you in a more concrete way?

 

[PrincessV]

That is super weird, and really can't even be responded to much without speculation.

I'm hoping your visit goes well. I would suspect they are trying out an experiment to see if this helps them figure out people who are in a fuzzy grey area and whether they need it - in terms of are you getting it sort of as a "backup comfort tool" vs are you getting it to "overuse it"? Maybe after a couple conversations they would approve or reject you in a more concrete way?

Thanks! And maybe? It was SO weird, I really don’t know what to make of it. We talked quite a bit because I was really trying to grasp what I was being told to do and how or if it made sense for me vs. just not bothering to visit as much. The CM was very pleasant and seemed genuinely to want to recommend what they thought would work best for my needs. They really were not pro-AQR for me - that was the oddest bit.

Realistically, I only generally do 3-5ish attractions in a day, so if they’re worried about me being some kind of super user, my 30 year AP history would inform that’s not happening! I figure maybe an average day will now be 2-3 rides, none of them headliners… will I want to bother driving 4 hours round trip for that? IDK, we’ll see.

 

[Keladry84]

I finally got through… and had an “approval” unlike any I’ve seen reported before. For background, I’m a semi-local AP at WDW who does some single day visits and some multi-day trips each year.

I described what happens to me in long lines etc. and my problems with lines are severe enough that they DO want me to use DAS - that was made clear… but they also don’t technically meet full DAS approval criteria, so I was approved for a single day at a time and will need to reapply every day I wish to visit - and only if I’m visiting solo. I have some multi-day trips planned, but it doesn’t matter: I was told to do the chat each day I want to visit. So in practical terms, if I were visiting Sept. 10, 11, 12, and 13, I’d need to chat to get the 10th approved, visit that day, and then chat again on the 11th. Rinse and repeat for the 12th and 13th. And again, this is only when I’m solo (which is most of the time) - any time I might be visiting with others I’d be denied.*

I did mention - politely! - that I’ve not seen this kind of accomodation mentioned anywhere, so I was a little thrown. I thought APs were to be approved for 120 days? Only if the AP meets certain criteria, apparently. They also told me that CMs can also only be approved one day at a time. (I am not a CM.)

We talked about the logistics of that and I said that it took several hours to get through today due to technical issues, and I don’t usually have ANY time in my daily life to do it, even if it goes straight through, so I’ll probably just use AQR instead. The CM tried to dissuade me from that, saying I certainly can, but that it would require asking at every attraction and some CMs/some rides won’t be willing to do anything, so it will be better for me to do the DAS chat every time. Of course, that assumes I’d be approved every time and no one can guarantee that, so I’m not seeing how doing a daily DAS chat is better. That was really odd to me.

I’m kind of stunned. I was prepared to be approved, or rejected - I was NOT prepared for something in-between! Not sure what I’ll do with this. Realistically, calling every day I plan to visit isn’t going to happen: my issues are very hard to talk about without triggering the issue itself and that is not something I wish to do every morning of a vacation. I think I’ll continue trying AQR, hitting rides when lines are short, buying ILL or whatever they’re called now if and when I have the money and inclination for individual rides, and honestly - just not doing some rides anymore, I guess. Like I did before a CM suggested I try DAS, ironically. Maybe if I’m feeling up to it, I’ll try doing the chat in the park some days, where I’d expect to be sent through the queue more quickly.

*It also occurs to me that sometimes people in my F&F list visit WDW on the same day as me, but we might only see each other for a meal - I’d still be solo for rides - would the fact that we have park reservations on the same day mean I couldn’t get DAS that day? IDK but maybe I’ll need to dump the few friends I have in my F&F list to avoid that issue.

Frankly, this is just more than I wish to think about for a day at WDW. I don’t plan ahead, I don’t buy MultiGenieFP++, I don’t make ADRs - I visit when I feel like visiting with as little fuss involved as possible and am unwilling to change that. In the end, I’m glad I downgraded my AP when I renewed recently and just won’t go to WDW at busy times anymore.

Thank you for posting this! Yours is the first account of an approval of this type that I've seen. I'm glad you shared as I kind of suspect when I can apply in November that I'm going to land in an in-between approval as well, so this helps me prepare for the different scenarios.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. I'm guessing either the person was trying to be helpful for you (I can't fully approve but this way I can but not get in trouble), OR they are trying to discourage applying in future (so like a nudge to use other accommodations). I'm suspecting probably the first because of their reply for you when you said you might just use AQR.

I hope your future visits go ok for you, and that you can find a system that works for you and helps you keep your spontaneity in visits.