DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[SueM in MN]

ADA does callout A companion to had with accommodations.

Does the ADA call out a companion, or a caregiver?

Caregiver

Don't know the letter of the law; most places that I see designate it as companion.

This is a good read on caregivers/companions, and I learned some new things from reading it: https://adata.org/factsheet/ada-and-caregivers

Notice how vague a lot of the wording is. Some things have rules, others suggestions, and there's a lot of wiggle room with all these topics.

Personally, I see the term companion used when buying movie or sports tickets. The theater I go to allows a free companion ticket for someone with a disability; sporting events don't.

A theater could choose to give a free companion ticket, but it's their choice, not a requirement.

Legoland, SeaWorld, and SD zoo all give complimentary entrance for companions.....looking at you Disney.

This is a screenshot from the LEGOLAND website. It was the only information I could find.


SeaWorld doesn't have search on their Orlando or San Diego websites. I couldn't find anything about discounts for disability or caregivers. The Orlando one USED TO give discounts to guests with wheelchairs who couldn't transfer because most of their attractions were not accessible. I couldn't find that on their website now.

From the approval/denial thread.


I don't see anywhere where it refers to a companion as just a companion - it apparently refers to caregivers only.



I am quite sure no where gives free admission to straight up companions for any & all disabled persons. Having a disability does not confer a right to have a friend accompany you free wherever you go. A necessary caregiver is a different story.

I copied this from post I made Wednesday on this thread. Reposting because it's about 5 pages back.
Given all the conversation about allowing the whole group to wait in line, I thought it would be a good idea to see what the ADA has to say about accommodating people with disabilities and their Caregivers.
Link to Factsheet The ADA and Caregivers. It's from the ADA National Network, which gives Information, Guidance and Training on the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Copied from website (my bold):

"How is the ADA relevant to caregivers and individuals with disabilities who need their assistance and support?
State and local government agencies (called “public entities”) and private businesses like stores, restaurants, movie theaters, amusements parks, etc. (called “places of public accommodation”) need to do a number of things to make sure people with disabilities can access goods and services, including:

• Provide aids and services to communicate effectively with individuals who have hearing, vision, or speech disabilities (e.g., read labels or tags aloud, describe items, provide materials in large print, Braille, or electronic formats for individuals who are blind or have low vision; exchange written notes, provide assistive listening devices, sign language interpreters, or captioning services for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing);
• Make “reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures” to ensure equal opportunities.
  • This means public entities or businesses may need to do things a little differently or adjust rules, on an individual, case-by-case basis, so that a person with a disability can access services or participate in programs. This may include accommodating a caregiver who is providing assistance to a person with a disability.

 

[nalababybear]

I can say for sure that we consistently get companion/caregiver complimentary for Legoland Carlsbad and SeaWorld San Diego.

We even had our adult day services visit Legoland earlier in March and all 6 the caregivers received complimentary entrances for the group.

 

[SueM in MN]

This is copied from the Factsheet ADA and Caregiver I noted in my last post. It is about CAREGIVERS, not companions. My bold

"Do caregivers and personal assistants get free admission?
The ADA does not guarantee free or discounted admission to the caregivers of individuals with disabilities. There may be times, however, when a person with a disability cannot access goods or services without personal assistance, and a public entity or business may need to consider offering free or discounted admission to ensure equal access. Generally, this will need to be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

Some considerations in making this decision include:

• Can the person with a disability have full access and enjoyment of the activity without a personal assistant?
• Is the caregiver attending to support the person with a disability, or is the caregiver attending for his own benefit?
• Can the business afford the cost of offering free admission?
  • What is the value of admission (e.g., a $10 admission to an uncrowded skating rink, or a $500 ticket to a popular, limited seating concert) compared to the resources of the entity (e.g., a small non-profit on a shoestring budget, or a large institution or business)?
• Does the business already offer discounts or other deals on admission?

Are caregivers guaranteed a seat with the person they are assisting at a ticketed seating event?​

It may depend on various factors. At many ticketed, assigned seating events (particularly where the seats have a high value), caregivers will need to purchase a ticket in order to be seated. Purchasing tickets for adjacent or nearby seats will simply depend on availability. Venue operators do not have to move other patrons who have already purchased tickets for specific seats.

If the individual with a disability needs an accessible seating location, he or she may purchase up to three additional tickets for adjacent or nearby seats, if such seats are available at the time of purchase and other patrons are allowed to purchase up to four tickets. Again, the venue is not required to relocate other patrons who have already purchased tickets for specific seats so that the caregiver can sit beside the person with a disability.

In some cases, caregivers will not need to be seated or remain within the venue for the duration of an event. They may, however, need to assist the individual to his or her seating location and return during an intermission or at the end of the event. Venue operators may need to make a reasonable modification of their policy to allow a non-ticketed caregiver to accompany the person with a disability to and from the seating location.

 

[SueM in MN]

I can say for sure that we consistently get companion/caregiver complimentary for Legoland Carlsbad and SeaWorld San Diego.

We even had our adult day services visit Legoland earlier in March and all 6 the caregivers received complimentary entrances for the group.

That's as caregivers though. Not companions to people who could be alone, but don't want to be

 

[sunburnin]

That's as caregivers though. Not companions to people who could be alone, but don't want to be

Yes, as the caregiver and not as a companion. But that doesn't mean they're not the same in many instances. Caregiver is a wide-open term, and the ADA doesn't stipulate a certification or license, etc. It's simply someone who assists the person with their disability. My wife and I are caregivers to our daughter, but so are her friends when going to a show and assisting her with the bathroom.

However, for this forum, let's be very clear. Your 25 family members walking around the park with you are NOT caregivers, that need to be with you waiting out of line.

 

[nalababybear]

Yes, as the caregiver and not as a companion. But that doesn't mean they're not the same in many instances. Caregiver is a wide-open term, and the ADA doesn't stipulate a certification or license, etc. It's simply someone who assists the person with their disability. My wife and I are caregivers to our daughter, but so are her friends when going to a show and assisting her with the bathroom.

However, for this forum, let's be very clear. Your 25 family members walking around the park with you are NOT caregivers, that need to be with you waiting out of line.

So true. Caregivers are often companions by default. Vice versa doesn't necessarily need to be true as @sue in MN pointed out.

Absolutely a cap...typically of one or two at any given moment. A village isn't needed all the time

 

[SueM in MN]

Yes, as the caregiver and not as a companion. But that doesn't mean they're not the same in many instances. Caregiver is a wide-open term, and the ADA doesn't stipulate a certification or license, etc. It's simply someone who assists the person with their disability. My wife and I are caregivers to our daughter, but so are her friends when going to a show and assisting her with the bathroom.

However, for this forum, let's be very clear. Your 25 family members walking around the park with you are NOT caregivers, that need to be with you waiting out of line.

I think the ADA is going with the simple definition of the word - a caregiver is someone who is giving care to the person with a disability.
It could be a professional, a paid caregiver, a volunteer, a family member, a friend.

The important piece is that they are there for the purpose of caring for or providing assistance to the person, not only as a companion.
The caring ‘role’ could be their main role or in addition to being a family member, friend or companion.

 

[nalababybear]

Saw this posted over in FB - For INPARK Use.

 

[PrincessV]

Is the “install Zoom” thing new after May 20? I ask because I did my call May 18 and it worked just fine without installing the Zoom app or downloading anything on my iPad.

 

[Bearval]

And now we are back to disabled guests are being treated differently from those who aren’t- non-disabled guests get to wait together in line and disabled guests who don’t meet DAS criteria are being asked to wait alone. That’s not equivalent access to attractions. Even an adult doing rider swap wouldn’t be alone, they’d be with the non-rider(s).

They are following ADA guidelines which is to provide reasonable accommodations.

 

[SueM in MN]

Is the “install Zoom” thing new after May 20? I ask because I did my call May 18 and it worked just fine without installing the Zoom app or downloading anything on my iPad.

Yes
That changed as of May 20, 2023 at WDW and June 18 at DL
It is listed on the websites for guests using phones or mobile devices. I think the change was made because of having had a lot of difficulty with people connecting to their secure chats. Zoom is much more straightforward

 

[lanejudy]

Yes
That changed as of May 20, 2023 at WDW and June 18 at DL
It is listed on the websites for guests using phones or mobile devices. I think the change was made because of having had a lot of difficulty with people connecting to their secure chats. Zoom is much more straightforward

I also wonder if going through Zoom helps with the international issues -- both VPN and information exchange. Just a guess.

 

[PrincessV]

Yes
That changed as of May 20, 2023 at WDW and June 18 at DL
It is listed on the websites for guests using phones or mobile devices. I think the change was made because of having had a lot of difficulty with people connecting to their secure chats. Zoom is much more straightforward View attachment 870326

Thank you! I work for an org that uses the term “Zoom” generically to refer to any virtual conferencing, regardless of actual platform, so that’s how my brain takes it in when reading. It suddenly hit me yesterday that people here probably are NOT using the term generically! Good to know ahead of the next time I may need it.

 

[SueM in MN]

I also wonder if going through Zoom helps with the international issues -- both VPN and information exchange. Just a guess.

I can confirm that using a VPN could cause issues connecting to the video chat.
My iPad and iPhone have VPN that is supposed to connect on demand when I'm on a non-secure network.
It kept connecting even though I was home on a secure network. I turned it off and it kept reconnecting. I finally was able to get on without VPN by using my phone's data as a hotspot shared with the iPad

 

[pecanp13]

I’m reading posts in Facebook groups of individuals that were originally denied under new guidelines, but then applying again while there on their second day and being approved due to RTQ not helping them. Has anyone on here posted similar experiences?

If that’s true, maybe they’re trying to see if RTQ is an option for individuals. And for those who it truly doesn’t work for, those people are being given DAS? At least that’s what I’m hoping is the case.

 

[jennab]

I’m reading posts in Facebook groups of individuals that were originally denied under new guidelines, but then applying again while there on their second day and being approved due to RTQ not helping them. Has anyone on here posted similar experiences?

If that’s true, maybe they’re trying to see if RTQ is an option for individuals. And for those who it truly doesn’t work for, those people are being given DAS? At least that’s what I’m hoping is the case.

Except once this gets out then everyone who gets denied will just say they tried the recommended accommodations and they didn’t work (whether or not they a truly did try).

 

[Jrb1979]

I’m reading posts in Facebook groups of individuals that were originally denied under new guidelines, but then applying again while there on their second day and being approved due to RTQ not helping them. Has anyone on here posted similar experiences?

If that’s true, maybe they’re trying to see if RTQ is an option for individuals. And for those who it truly doesn’t work for, those people are being given DAS? At least that’s what I’m hoping is the case.

I wonder if it will be dependent on party size. If you have people on your party that can wait in line and you can meet them at the merge point than they may still deny DAS

 

[SueM in MN]

I’m reading posts in Facebook groups of individuals that were originally denied under new guidelines, but then applying again while there on their second day and being approved due to RTQ not helping them. Has anyone on here posted similar experiences?

If that’s true, maybe they’re trying to see if RTQ is an option for individuals. And for those who it truly doesn’t work for, those people are being given DAS? At least that’s what I’m hoping is the case.

Except once this gets out then everyone who gets denied will just say they tried the recommended accommodations and they didn’t work (whether or not they a truly did try).

I’ve seen posts like that too, but the people posting mostly said it was not just an easy “I tried what was suggested and it didn’t work”
The posts I’ve seen said it was a pretty inclusive discussion about what they tried, what didn’t work/what happened/what issues they had.

 

[cat4hurricane]

That’s honestly how I expect it to be. I’ve definitely heard of people coming back on the second day and asking essentially for a look-over after having used AQR/RTQ and the other accommodations. In that case, having notes of what worked and what didn’t would be helpful, but at no point would I expect someone to just say: “It didn’t work, can I have DAS now?” Every person I’ve seen who has called back/got a lookover after the first day of the other accommodations have come back with specific reasons as to why AQR or RTQ and the other accommodations didn’t work. Likewise, everyone I’ve seen whose been amenable to calling back after a day has also said that they would take notes or keep in mind during the one day what they’ve seen working or not working for them.

It’s good to see that Disney is (maybe specifically?) asking questions and wanting that discussion concerning AQR/RTQ vs DAS. It’s also good that those coming back and asking questions is having evidence or being amenable (mostly) to the new post-trying-accommodations conversation. Disney has asked them to essentially try a day, and they’ve also been amenable to giving someone another look, even if that requires a pretty extensive conversation. It’s still very much in a sort of transition state/getting-used-to-this state (especially for DLR now), and so hearing that Disney is taking feedback or having those extensive conversations is great, because maybe that could help with future DAS calls, or with what they suggest as an alternative accommodation for someone. Having guests essentially give feedback on what worked and what didn’t (and maybe what could help them/make it better) is great feedback for Disney, and it’s helpful for the guest because they’re largely feeling like they’re being heard with this second conversation.

 

[jennab]

That’s honestly how I expect it to be. I’ve definitely heard of people coming back on the second day and asking essentially for a look-over after having used AQR/RTQ and the other accommodations. In that case, having notes of what worked and what didn’t would be helpful, but at no point would I expect someone to just say: “It didn’t work, can I have DAS now?” Every person I’ve seen who has called back/got a lookover after the first day of the other accommodations have come back with specific reasons as to why AQR or RTQ and the other accommodations didn’t work. Likewise, everyone I’ve seen whose been amenable to calling back after a day has also said that they would take notes or keep in mind during the one day what they’ve seen working or not working for them.

It’s good to see that Disney is (maybe specifically?) asking questions and wanting that discussion concerning AQR/RTQ vs DAS. It’s also good that those coming back and asking questions is having evidence or being amenable (mostly) to the new post-trying-accommodations conversation. Disney has asked them to essentially try a day, and they’ve also been amenable to giving someone another look, even if that requires a pretty extensive conversation. It’s still very much in a sort of transition state/getting-used-to-this state (especially for DLR now), and so hearing that Disney is taking feedback or having those extensive conversations is great, because maybe that could help with future DAS calls, or with what they suggest as an alternative accommodation for someone. Having guests essentially give feedback on what worked and what didn’t (and maybe what could help them/make it better) is great feedback for Disney, and it’s helpful for the guest because they’re largely feeling like they’re being heard with this second conversation.

Sure, I think it’s fair they have another conversation but I truly hope Disney holds strong on a lot of these. Otherwise I can see a lot of people with “might have” issues (like IBS - no offense just first one that came to mind) just getting DAS back and we end up with the exact same problem we were before.