DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[SueM in MN]

Does anyone remember when they started moving away from granting mobility issues for DAS? Was it simply when the system changed from GAC to DAS?

Before that.Mobility issues alone never were supposed to get GAC or DAS

Definitely with the change from GAC to DAS, however even before that (during the GAC years) mobility alone did not require GAC. Though I think it may have been during those GAC years that most queues became mainstreamed.

My family is familiar with how things were/are at WDW.
We first traveled to WDW with someone using a wheelchair in 1987 or 1988. Any kind of mobility device was pretty rare - we were lucky if we saw one other person a day.
The first member of our group to use GAC (Guest Assistance Card) was in 1997, 98 or 99.

Mobility wasn't a valid reason for GAC even in 1999 .
I know more about WDW than DL, but the biggest difference is that DL continues to have more attractions that are not accessible thru the regular line - older attractions and more compact park makes it more challenging to add access

When DL, MK and EPCOT were built, attractions were designed to efficiently bring a steady flow of guests walking to the boarding area and out of the attraction after riding.
SOME of the ways they did that were turnstiles, gradual narrowing of the line to single file as it reached the boarding area, loading on one side of a ride car/track and exit on the opposite side.

Guests using mobility devices of any kind were moved to the exit in most cases to board. Nothing was needed - the CM saw the mobility device and routed the guest where they needed to go.
In the early 1990s, at WDW they started converting queues to be wheelchair accessible in the regular lines (called Mainstream Access). Disney MGM Studio (now called Disney Hollywood Studio) and AK were built with mostly Mainstream Lines, along with Disney California Adventure. Nothing was/is needed to use a mobility device in line.

The Guest Assistance Card (GAC) had a stamp for 'Alternate Entry' , which was usually the exit, even for Mainstream lines. There was another stamp 'May use Wheelchair Entrance'. Both were meant for people whose disability prevented them from waiting in long lines or didn't have a mobility device, but needed the wheelchair entrance. Some of them had mobility needs, but also had conditions that prevented them from waiting in the long lines - those guests had GAC with the alternate entry stamp.

Some of the guests with mobility devices without additional needs came to the exit like they did before the line was renovated. They were told the regular line was accessible, but they would need GAC to use the alternate entry.
So, people started posting they were not allowed to use the 'accessible entry' without GAC and the myth of needing GAC with a wheelchair was born.
On disABILITIES Board, we tried to explain that new or renovated attractions had Mainstream Lines and had lists of those that did not have Mainstream accessibility. Many people didn't like that - using the alternate entry meant immediate entry while using the Mainstream line meant waiting in line. A lot had virtual tantrums in Guest Relations to get GAC, even though they didn't need it to use their mobility device in line.

Disney did not have anything about GAC or the system at Disneyland on their websites. What people knew about them were mostly from other websites and discussion forums. So, there was nothing official from Disney that said GAC was not for mobility. I know for our family member, we needed to explain the other needs that were not met by the wheelchair each time we re-registered.

When DAS was introduced in Fall 2013, Disney had information about their disability access on their websites for the first time.
I don't have the specific wording from when DAS first started, but the websites did say that DAS was not for mobility.
The gist of the wording was "Our attractions are accessible and we recommend guests who are concerned about stamina or standing in lines use a wheelchair or ECV. The amount of walking in the park far surpasses the distance walked in our queues."
At some point the wording was changed to something like "DAS is not meant for guests whose need is primary based on need to use a mobility device."

interestingly, there was also a statement about parking that recommended guests without mobility devices use the regular parking and parking lot trams to avoid walking as far. That was removed sometime after courtesy wheelchair kiosks were added to the Medical parking and bus areas. (The kiosks are often empty though and you will see people using those courtesy wheelchairs inside the parks to avoid renting one).

 

[Evita_W]

Crazy thing is that SWA now considers (neck) pillows and blankets as carry-on items. So you can no longer have a roll-on, blanket+ pillow unless you are able to put the pillow in your bag.

Except a person in that situation is just going to end up having to pull the pillow out as soon as they are on the plane. I don't see how that's going to speed up boarding.

I mention because I think many people bring travel pillows to help with medical needs. I don't know if there is way to request a medical exception for pillows.

I was just a bit shocked to hear their new policy.

I think we will be seeing all airlines follow suit, it may also be a change in regulations that has happened or is in the works.

 

[jo-jo]

Yes. Unfortunately, as we're seeing, there are many more people who want it to be appropriate than it may truly be appropriate for, causing an uproar over the adjustment. Many people have in the last year or so been getting DAS for conditions that 5 years ago they would have been blasted over even considering but nobody would want to give that up.

A number of people have said back when there was still fast pass, that was good enough. They went on 4-6 rides per day.

We've only used DAS for a couple of years and we find that's about what we use now. 4-6 rides per day. We don't rush ride to ride and then only in the parks for 8 hours max and that's broken up.

So 5 years ago perhaps people were were 'making do" with their issues with fast pass. There was no need to even inquire about DAS.

 

[DisneyOma]

In that situation, the person walking within their own space is accommodated "first." It's a frequent recommendation, to have your party allow a little space front/back so an individual has space to move. That is not directly impacting the person who might have a panic attack. Hopefully that individual can then try to position themselves so they don't see the walking, or distract themselves with something else (conversation, electronic device, read a book, etc.). If a panic attack occurs, the individual having the panic attack would then need to leave the queue and request a re-entry as their accommodation.

If I have a panic attack in a queue, there'd better be an exit nearby, as getting through the queue in reverse would be excruciating. Once the adrenaline starts to kick in, there's no stopping it with talk, distractions, etc. It's a chemical process at that point, and either has to run its course or get wiped out with a recovery med that puts me to sleep. My last panic attack was inside an MRI tube - whacked my head so hard on the tube because they couldn't get me out fast enough.

Using the terms "first" and "hopefully" don't really seem to fall in line with ADA to me?

 

[lanejudy]

Using the terms "first" and "hopefully" don't really seem to fall in line with ADA to me?

I put "first" in quotes for that reason -- it's not so much "first" to be accommodated but they are allowed to do what they need to do. Your needs do not override their needs, and in the hypothetical presented by PP, the need to move a bit in the queue is the "first" need that is presented; the potential for a panic attack is actually second because it has not occurred yet. It's a hypothetical situation and I won't run through all possible scenarios of who enters the queue before whom, how many other parties are between them, do they only see each other at the switchbacks and otherwise not really visible to each other, etc. But the party who needs to move around in the queue is allowed and encouraged to do so. The new DAS qualifications appear to be denying DAS for many whose needs *may* arise in the queue *if* such-and-such happens -- they are now expected to enter the queue and exit when/if the need arises. So in the hypothetical presented, without any additional details, the need to move or pace in place is accommodated "first" by allowing that movement.

If you are allergic to dogs and a service dog enters the queue right behind you -- the dog is allowed to stay in the queue and you may need to exit and rejoin your group using AQR. It's the same scenario. The person who needs to move is allowed to enter the queue and move about within their own space. If you cannot remain in the queue then you may exit and rejoin your party later, that is allowed.

There are various ways to try to avoid panic attacks. I offered some basic distractions to help avoid focusing on others in the queue -- it was not intended to be medical advice for dealing with a panic attack. If you or a member of your party might be impacted by what another is doing within their own space please work with your own healthcare team on strategies to 1) recognize the warning signs a panic attack is coming on and 2) ways to potentially avoid reaching that state. Those are questions for each individual to work on with their own providers.

 

[Becky Mouse]

A number of people have said back when there was still fast pass, that was good enough. They went on 4-6 rides per day.

We've only used DAS for a couple of years and we find that's about what we use now. 4-6 rides per day. We don't rush ride to ride and then only in the parks for 8 hours max and that's broken up.

So 5 years ago perhaps people were were 'making do" with their issues with fast pass. There was no need to even inquire about DAS.

But those people were and are able to wait in a queue, and DAS is not meant for them.

Think of all the people out there with little kids who struggle to wait in long lines just because they're kids. Being a child isn't a disability by itself, but waiting in line is difficult for most young children. Parents either need to work to help their kids succeed in a line (playing games, bringing snacks, looking for hidden Mickeys, maybe handing them a tablet for a bit, etc.), or they buy Genie+ and pay for the convenience of shorter lines. The same is true for adults who struggle to wait in lines but can. Some can work to accommodate their issues in line (like if it's stimulation, getting noise-cancelling headphones), or they can pay for Genie+ for the convenience of shorter lines. Is it easy to wait in a line for an hour? No. But people who "made it work" before aren't the ones DAS is for. DAS is for a small percentage of guests. People who did fine with FastPass will do fine with Genie+. In my opinion, if they did fine with FastPass, then getting DAS simply because they didn't want to pay for Genie+ is part of the DAS abuse.

 

[Disneylover99]

But those people were and are able to wait in a queue, and DAS is not meant for them.

The people making it work with FP, we’re in the same queues as the DAS people.

Think of all the people out there with little kids who struggle to wait in long lines just because they're kids. Being a child isn't a disability by itself, but waiting in line is difficult for most young children. Parents either need to work to help their kids succeed in a line (playing games, bringing snacks, looking for hidden Mickeys, maybe handing them a tablet for a bit, etc.), or they buy Genie+ and pay for the convenience of shorter lines. The same is true for adults who struggle to wait in lines but can. Some can work to accommodate their issues in line (like if it's stimulation, getting noise-cancelling headphones), or they can pay for Genie+ for the convenience of shorter lines. Is it easy to wait in a line for an hour? No. But people who "made it work" before aren't the ones DAS is for. DAS is for a small percentage of guests. People who did fine with FastPass will do fine with Genie+. In my opinion, if they did fine with FastPass, then getting DAS simply because they didn't want to pay for Genie+ is part of the DAS abuse.

People who made it work with FP, did so because they were able to choose their exact times to ride, unlike Genie+.

Some people who previously had DAS will do fine with Genie+, but not all.

 

[phi2012]

But those people were and are able to wait in a queue, and DAS is not meant for them.

Think of all the people out there with little kids who struggle to wait in long lines just because they're kids. Being a child isn't a disability by itself, but waiting in line is difficult for most young children. Parents either need to work to help their kids succeed in a line (playing games, bringing snacks, looking for hidden Mickeys, maybe handing them a tablet for a bit, etc.), or they buy Genie+ and pay for the convenience of shorter lines. The same is true for adults who struggle to wait in lines but can. Some can work to accommodate their issues in line (like if it's stimulation, getting noise-cancelling headphones), or they can pay for Genie+ for the convenience of shorter lines. Is it easy to wait in a line for an hour? No. But people who "made it work" before aren't the ones DAS is for. DAS is for a small percentage of guests. People who did fine with FastPass will do fine with Genie+. In my opinion, if they did fine with FastPass, then getting DAS simply because they didn't want to pay for Genie+ is part of the DAS abuse.

I understand what you are saying about people doing all they can to help themselves in queues. But there is a difference between free fastpass+ and Genie+. In the old fastpass+ days you could schedule 3 rides for your day in advance for one after the other in say the morning and be guaranteed of doing 3 rides in your morning. With genie+ you have to take the options on a ride by ride basis for the times offered which could be hours and hours from your first genie+. When a disabled person (my husband for example) can only do maybe 3 hours in the park with use of DAS or Fastpass+ previously before having to leave because of their condition. Now you may have paid for genie+ but actually only gotten on one ride with it, then tried to do a standby line, before having to leave due to your condition, which then could also have longer term ill effects meaning no return to the parks for a couple of days. That is not a fair option, and why DAS was so necessary.

DAS should always be about making accessing the park fair. We don't want immediate front of line access, we are happy to wait outside the line the same amount of time those in standby wait (somewhere quiet). I would have been happy if Disney had made it that DAS users could only do 3 or 4 rides per day with the DAS, that would discourage fakers from misuse, many who genuinely need it most likely couldn't do longer or more rides than that anyway (obviously not all disabled, but for many this may be an acceptable accommodation).
For context, my husband hasn't yet been refused DAS, we will await his call in a month or so, and hope his Non- physical issues will still grant the DAS. If not, I'm not sure how the RTQ or AQR would work for my husbands disability let alone using his mobility scooter to get out of the queue.

But to just say that genie+ gives the same accommodations is not right. We would happily pay for Genie+ if it worked the same as Fastpass+ but it doesn't, and even with fastpass+ our holiday was half of what a normal healthy persons holiday would be. Even with DAS our holidays were not what a normal family could do (as we experianced before my husbands disability), but DAS has made visiting Disney a possibility, now potentially without it, a number of people in a likewise situation to ours may not be able to do Disney again.

 

[AJA]

People who made it work with FP, did so because they were able to choose their exact times to ride, unlike Genie+.

Some people who previously had DAS will do fine with Genie+, but not all.

You can now modify your Genie+ time. That will help a lot that choose to go that route.

Disney isn’t taking DAS use from all the former users. DAS is still available to those who absolutely need it. These changes are happening to keep DAS workable for them. Unfortunately that means many people who use to qualify won’t be eligible anymore.

 

[AJA]

A number of people have said back when there was still fast pass, that was good enough. They went on 4-6 rides per day.

We've only used DAS for a couple of years and we find that's about what we use now. 4-6 rides per day. We don't rush ride to ride and then only in the parks for 8 hours max and that's broken up.

So 5 years ago perhaps people were were 'making do" with their issues with fast pass. There was no need to even inquire about DAS.

Just stack your LL’s and start later in the day. By stacking your LL’s you can easily get those 4-5 rides.

 

[PrincessV]

I used G+ twice, when it first came out… it’s not DAS. It’s not even close. For one thing, the price tag - I’m a local-ish AP who manages their disability in part by NOT spending all day in a park: I’m good for maybe 3-4 hours. The expectation is that I’m to drop $25ish per visit, times easily 40 visits per year, to replace DAS?! Yeah, no - that’s not in my budget. The other major factor against G+ is that I rarely go to a park in the morning, and usually roll up late afternoon or early evening - another strategy I use to help with my disability. G+ is not designed for that: I’d need to spend all day moving ride times around, hoping I don’t miss a window to get my rides into the evening time slots I need. There’s also the factor that in that 3-4 hours I spend per visit, I need time away from even the LL lines - I can’t do ride after ride after ride, even if I could stack a bunch up. So if G+ was my only option, I’d be spending $25ish to do… 2, maybe 3 rides?

All of which is moot, though, because Disney is not telling people to use G+ as a disability accommodation - at least not officially. I know we’ve heard some report that it was suggested by DAS CMs, and there’s some confusion as to whether it was really G+ or Genie suggested, but nothing in Disney’s official disability options says G+ is the replacement for DAS.

ETA: I’ll just add that some here have much fonder memories of FP than I do lol! I despised both OG FP and FP+.

ETA: Come to think of it, I don’t specially love DAS, either, and use it sparingly because I don’t enjoy being tied to my phone every visit, “constantly” looking for the next ride to book. An average park visit for me usually involves using DAS for one majorly long wait, enjoying an attraction or two with short enough SB waits I can stand, and plenty of time just hanging out. I legitimately just wish there was no G+ or ILL to back up SB lines and I could handle being in one for more than 20 minutes. Nothing I need to do to manage my disability at today’s WDW is what I’d prefer. I may also just be old and cranky at this point, lol! #getoffmylawn

 

[mistysue]

Those saying Genie+ is so different from the old FP, might want to follow up on more recent reports. We found that we got as much out of Genie+ this past trip as we used to get from FP. We couldn't book anything until day-of, but could usually get the majority of any park in, especially booking a "later" ride at 7AM, then setting alarms to book every 2 hours until we got into the park, and booking the next ride as soon as available every chance.

I am not saying it is nearly as convenient as the DAS, or that it necessarily meets your personal needs, only that it seems to have gotten better with many of the half hour or less wait rides giving G+ times 5-10 minutes for most of the day.

 

[jo-jo]

Just stack your LL’s and start later in the day. By stacking your LL’s you can easily get those 4-5 rides.

I've read something about that. Someone else mentioned also with the low key rides we do, we'd probably not have issues getting the rides later in the day. Not like Slinky that's gone in 2 secs for the whole day. My issue would be how late is late. One trip a few years ago, in Dec. during the day it was close to 80 but once the sun set, it got cold fast. DH using a EVC, doesn't build up body heat from walking, so he got cold. Yes, we carry jackets and small blanket. Maybe plan for an hour or two mid morning to noonish and then again 4 ish until ? We couldn't do say start at 1 until 9 pm. Can't do that long of time in parks.

 

[mistysue]

<snip>... We don't want immediate front of line access, we are happy to wait outside the line the same amount of time those in standby wait (somewhere quiet). <snip>

I'm not meaning this to be personal, it's repeated a lot, but can we please stop saying this? Unless a person is policing themselves to go to the ride entrance when booking their DAS return, this isn't true and everyone in these conversations knows it isn't true which is why there is such a problem.
It's not the same wait. (of course, depending on level of need it could be a much worse wait) It includes the time to travel to the ride, and breaks for whatever else is on the agenda. Depending on need that can be stuff others are happily oblivious to or it could mean getting a pretzel or even riding other rides, but it's often not the same wait and not as much wasted time doing nothing but walking through a queue. Non-DAS users don't start their wait the moment they think about going on a ride, which could be at the turnstiles, sitting at a meal or while boarding another ride. They start their wait when they arrive there and their other needs are on hold until after the ride is done.

As a phrase it's just overused, not productive to a conversation, and the glaring inaccuracies with it are why people are so reluctant to consider alternatives in the first place. Even when it is a needed accommodation, it does allow DAS users to sort of double dip on their time to get things done more efficiently. For some users that is fair. For too many it is not.

 

[phi2012]

Just stack your LL’s and start later in the day. By stacking your LL’s you can easily get those 4-5 rides.

If you can do later days in the park. Not all can though.
Again why DAS should be on a case by case situation, but seems to be that very few are being given DAS now.

Those saying Genie+ is so different from the old FP, might want to follow up on more recent reports. We found that we got as much out of Genie+ this past trip as we used to get from FP. We couldn't book anything until day-of, but could usually get the majority of any park in, especially booking a "later" ride at 7AM, then setting alarms to book every 2 hours until we got into the park, and booking the next ride as soon as available every chance.

I am not saying it is nearly as convenient as the DAS, or that it necessarily meets your personal needs, only that it seems to have gotten better with many of the half hour or less wait rides giving G+ times 5-10 minutes for most of the day.

This will heavily depend on when you go, what rides you hope to do, if you can be in the parks later in the day etc.
I hope it is true for when we go, as if we don't get DAS we will have to use all options open to us to salvage the holiday, but will only have a very small window of time each day in the parks to use it. For us it isn't about money, its about it not meeting my husbands needs.

 

[mistysue]

If you can do later days in the park. Not all can though.
Again why DAS should be on a case by case situation, but seems to be that very few are being given DAS now.

This will heavily depend on when you go, what rides you hope to do, if you can be in the parks later in the day etc.
I hope it is true for when we go, as if we don't get DAS we will have to use all options open to us to salvage the holiday, but will only have a very small window of time each day in the parks to use it. For us it isn't about money, its about it not meeting my husbands needs.

I wonder if before you go (DAS granted or not) you should post more details about hours you plan to be at whatever park along with "must do" rides and see what advice people can lend. It might be the sort of planning crowdsourcing ideas could lend a huge hand with.

 

[sprem96]

Noticed that DAS was gaining traction on Twitter again, one of the people I follow on there posted a good explanation about the accommodations that Disney offers now:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795834547743142232

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795834552054861949

Figured this would be good to place here, because I know people are getting the acronyms all mixed up, me included. Basically it goes DAS, RTQ (Old school DAS, get a return time at the start of the line) and AQR (still need that key, but this is the “bathroom pass”, so leave the line and meet up with your party at the merge point when you’re done)

Note: posted edited by moderator to remove inaccurate tweets​

Still would love to know how AQR will work after merge point especially on GotG, Tron, or even ToT as examples which have significant waiting still after merge points

 

[Memorymakerfor4]

Retail therapy is real.

Disney has been our happy place for decades - even prekids. Son had his first haircut at 7 months at the Harmony Barber shop on the way to meet his great grandma.

When he was diagnosed with ASD, we were fearful of what our happy place would mean for him and it was realized during his 3 year old trip. A kind CM pointed us to City Hall and GAC entered our lives. It made the remainder of that trip possible.

Over the years, he's changed with different sensitivities and behaviors and we've adapted with him -- as has our visit patterns to Disney and utilization of their services. They will continue to change. He may not qualify for the next round of DAS renewals as he's grown and learned coping skills to stay 'in the moment' through the triggers for a limited time -- all depending on what Disney decides are the factors. LL wait times have blossomed over the years so even now many rides simply are out of reach, even on weekdays. - so silly swings is our go-to ride.

We've expanded to become avid DVC owners too now that we have more time and resources to do so. With that, we've learned to advocate for him as he cannot for himself.

Disney to date has been very responsive and accommodating without the need to saber rattle of threats. Explain the request for reasonable accommodation based on your child's need to successfully experience Disney. Disney has shown up every time. -- sometimes not to our satisfaction; but always with an explanation and a try to meet the need.

The shine certainly has come off the penny over the years as competition and corporate need to seek the mighty dollar has eroded some of that rock solid confidence in Neverland always being there for us; but it's still enough that we often forgo Seaworld in our backyard and our lifetime Legoland membership in favor of our Disney Ohana.

Give Disney a chance to find a way forward for your family. Hold them to it if they don't rise to meet the moment and persist if they don't again. I'm hopeful that they will find a reasonable accommodation. If not, sounds like you have a solid plan and backup too.

I'm way behind in this thread but was just sitting here drinking coffee trying to catch up, and am having these same thoughts. We're at the point right now where my son's needs and behaviors have changed (again lol) and it has me considering what our trip later this year will look like. Because of my planning and research, in the recent past we were able to utilize DAS and chose to purchase Genie+ to experience a full day in the parks. I'm not so sure it'll be this way this year and may harken back to the days when he was younger and less able to tolerate it. I'm still in the 'give Disney a chance' mindset as well and really hope this settles down in the coming months, but am also preparing myself it might not by the time we go.

P.S. I was proofreading this and realized I'd forgotten to add 'coffee' to the first sentence, ha ha. This thread has tempted me to drink something stronger at times!

 

[phi2012]

I'm not meaning this to be personal, it's repeated a lot, but can we please stop saying this? Unless a person is policing themselves to go to the ride entrance when booking their DAS return, this isn't true and everyone in these conversations knows it isn't true which is why there is such a problem.
It's not the same wait. (of course, depending on level of need it could be a much worse wait) It includes the time to travel to the ride, and breaks for whatever else is on the agenda. Depending on need that can be stuff others are happily oblivious to or it could mean getting a pretzel or even riding other rides, but it's often not the same wait and not as much wasted time doing nothing but walking through a queue. Non-DAS users don't start their wait the moment they think about going on a ride, which could be at the turnstiles, sitting at a meal or while boarding another ride. They start their wait when they arrive there and their other needs are on hold until after the ride is done.

As a phrase it's just overused, not productive to a conversation, and the glaring inaccuracies with it are why people are so reluctant to consider alternatives in the first place. Even when it is a needed accommodation, it does allow DAS users to sort of double dip on their time to get things done more efficiently. For some users that is fair. For too many it is not.

But it is personal, and I have every right to say that as much as you do to say you don't like hearing it.
I said this because for us this is true! My husband waits in his scooter in a shaded area and doesn't do anything whilst waiting for his return time. It isn't about getting to the front of the line for us as quickly as possible, its about making the time he isn't on the ride as quiet and calm as possible and allowing him time to decompress so he doesn't have to leave the park immediately.
Obviously some may use that time in other ways. But to say i shouldn't say that is how DAS works for us, because you feel it isn't true, then means that this is not a fact based or truthful conversation, which is what these forums are supposed to be about.
And I repeat this is a very personal subject, for people who have to live with disabilities and discrimination on a daily basis.

 

[mistysue]

I'm way behind in this thread but was just sitting here drinking coffee trying to catch up, and am having these same thoughts. We're at the point right now where my son's needs and behaviors have changed (again lol) and it has me considering what our trip later this year will look like. Because of my planning and research, in the recent past we were able to utilize DAS and Genie+ together to help us experience a full day in the parks. I'm not so sure it'll be this way this year and may harken back to the days when he was younger and less able to tolerate it. I'm still in the 'give Disney a chance' mindset as well and really hope this settles down in the coming months, but am also preparing myself it might not by the time we go.

P.S. I was proofreading this and realized I'd forgotten to add 'coffee' to the first sentence, ha ha. This thread has tempted me to drink something stronger at times!

You should take coffee back out. Gives everyone something lighter to think about.