DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[PrincessV]

I was rolling all of the talk around in my head over lunch earlier and something struck me: the concern mostly seems to be that too many DAS groups using the LLs causing long waits in the LL lines, right? Does anyone have data on just how long those waits are and how often they’re that long? Even anecdotal?

I ask because I am not a super user of DAS, G+, or ILL. I do use DAS and occasionally ILL, but I’m doing maybe 2-3 attractions with them per day. While I visit WDW around 30+ days in year, that’s still not a ton of line experiences compared to a family that goes 7 days and does 10-15 a day. Anyway, my personal experience has been that with the exceptions of rides going down, I’ve never spent more than 20 minutes in a LL queue, and most have been in the 5-10 minute range. Even when Ratatouille’s LL is backed up to the creperie, it moved and wasn’t more than 20 minutes. I visit all times of year, so it’s not that I’m only there in the off-season (does that even exist anymore?!), though I’m pretty much never in the parks before noon.

I promise, I’m legitimately asking, not being snarky: have I just somehow been lucky all this time and LL waits are often much longer than that? Or is the expectation that LL waits should never be as long as 20 minutes? And/or is it certain rides that get particularly bad? It’s possible they just aren’t rides I’m doing in the first place. I guess I’m feeling like these changes are a lot for something that hasn’t felt all that broken to me in the first place, and I’m wondering what I’m missing.

 

[Bella749]

Of course no one knows Disney's intent, but part of me thinks the GAC and DAS were also set up as a way to provide a bit of special magic to people with special needs--in the same way that they do for Wish kids or special needs travel groups. It certainly has been that way for us. If you'd ever told me as a young adult that I'd be going to Disney parks the way we do for years, I would have thought you were nuts. But due in large part to the GAC/DAS, Disneyland has become a happy place for our family because it makes DS so happy. The Disney bubble for us is a place where DS is treated as if he is "special" in the best sense of the word--the rest of the world isn't always that kind. I am sure we will continue to feel that magic, but I hate that it has come to this.

I agree with you and I always assumed the GAC and DAS were setup and used for mostly special needs kids and adults. But after the news broke that Disney was changing who qualifies for a DAS pass and the outrage that broke out I realized that wasn’t the case.

I didn’t realize that 90% of the population qualified for a DAS. Most of us have some kind of issues. I have an autoimmune disease and also suffer with anxiety/panic disorder for years. I never liked closed in places and crowds. My brother has colitis and we both been to Disney many times in our lives, but never tried to get a DAS because the world doesn’t revolve around us and our diseases or disorders. We have the cognitive understanding and skills to navigate the world with our issues and that includes Disney.

A child and adult with special needs don’t have the cognitive understanding and skills to navigate the world like we do. They have a lot fewer interests and also many become obsessed and repetitive with their interests. Disney being one of them. I think if Disney decides to just let people with special needs like autism, etc get the DAS I think that is fair.

I am happy for you CaliforniaGirl09 that you and your family found a place that your DS and your family can share and enjoy the happiness together. I hope your DS and your family have many more wonderful magical years at Disney.

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

I was rolling all of the talk around in my head over lunch earlier and something struck me: the concern mostly seems to be that too many DAS groups using the LLs causing long waits in the LL lines, right? Does anyone have data on just how long those waits are and how often they’re that long? Even anecdotal?

I ask because I am not a super user of DAS, G+, or ILL. I do use DAS and occasionally ILL, but I’m doing maybe 2-3 attractions with them per day. While I visit WDW around 30+ days in year, that’s still not a ton of line experiences compared to a family that goes 7 days and does 10-15 a day. Anyway, my personal experience has been that with the exceptions of rides going down, I’ve never spent more than 20 minutes in a LL queue, and most have been in the 5-10 minute range. Even when Ratatouille’s LL is backed up to the creperie, it moved and wasn’t more than 20 minutes. I visit all times of year, so it’s not that I’m only there in the off-season (does that even exist anymore?!), though I’m pretty much never in the parks before noon.

I promise, I’m legitimately asking, not being snarky: have I just somehow been lucky all this time and LL waits are often much longer than that? Or is the expectation that LL waits should never be as long as 20 minutes? And/or is it certain rides that get particularly bad? It’s possible they just aren’t rides I’m doing in the first place. I guess I’m feeling like these changes are a lot for something that hasn’t felt all that broken to me in the first place, and I’m wondering what I’m missing.

The longest I have ever had to wait with DAS is about 20 min. But that’s on somewhat popular rides at prime times of the day during the busiest times of the year. (disclaimer - all of the attractions are geared towards young children so I can not speak to others, including those that require the virtual queues.) Usually I’d say the wait is between 5-10 minutes.

 

[Disneychick75]

Well yes literally anything can bring on a lawsuit, that's why we have the legal options we have (filing a lawsuit and it going through the system to the endpoint aren't the same though). But as far as what Disney (or any large company with deep legal pockets does) they typically try to proactively arm themselves against that. Does it always work? No. But neither do they always lose their lawsuit either (in part because they typically are proactive about things).

Your example of being denied DAS and then collapsing is probably covered under the liability conditions of admittance to Disney's parks (note this isn't legal advice). If you make the decision to continue being in the park that could be argued to be your choice after you've been informed your condition doesn't qualify for DAS even more so if Disney offered another option for you and you simply found that unsatisfactory to you personally (again this isn't legal advice). I believe you were trying to go for being denied DAS when you don't believe you should be but the burden of that will fall on the plaintiff to prove Disney should have approved DAS for that person.

But the bigger part of your suggestion (which like I said to another poster I get wanting to provide that to increase your chances of getting DAS) what you're suggesting would undoubtly create an unfair system within DAS solely based on one's willingness to share/provide personal medical information. And that IMO would have a high chance of a lawsuit. If the requirement (or non-requirement) is the same for all it removes at least a claim of unfairness based on one's voluntary action.

It isn't a question of a DAS option being unsatisfactory. It's a question of a DAS option offered being unsuitable for my condition.
Yes, I understand that Disney could say I made the choice to go to the parks. I had thought about going to Uni and staying in an onsite that provides FOTL instead but I've decided that because one of our grandchildren had never been with us to WDW, I'm going regardless because I want to have memories of visiting WDW with my grandchildren. The cards will fall as they may. It's sad though that Disney is punishing those of us who should be able to use DAS because some have cheated the system. You can bet the cheaters will still get DAS. So it will be unfair no matter the changes.

 

[SueM in MN]

The Rider Swap thing goes back to an issue I’ve had to bring up to Guest Services multiple times. (Usually in relation to location of lines at DLs after hours events last year when I went). Not all disabled folk travel with a party. And even when we do that doesn’t mean one of us is going to be able bodied.

You can’t just assume that we can have someone else there who can act as a placeholder. Some of us are independent with our disabilities.

And I thought we were making some headway with getting them to realize this at least at DL. Because I know at least at a couple of the Star Wars nites they had started instituting return times for some of the characters for disabled party goers

But apparently not if we’re having to have this discussion again.


I have normal vision and I even struggle with HMs queue. I get HM is for the ambience but especially at DL I’m always afraid of bumping into someone despite my best efforts. I can only imagine what the struggles for someone whose VI deals with in that queue.

People are assuming some guests with disabilities will be forced to use Rider Switch the way it currently works. But, we don't know.
I think one of the reasons Disney added it to the disabilities information is that it is a tool many people are not aware of that might be helpful.
People also have misconceptions about it - many people assume it's only for families with kids who are too small to ride.

I was rolling all of the talk around in my head over lunch earlier and something struck me: the concern mostly seems to be that too many DAS groups using the LLs causing long waits in the LL lines, right? Does anyone have data on just how long those waits are and how often they’re that long? Even anecdotal?

I ask because I am not a super user of DAS, G+, or ILL. I do use DAS and occasionally ILL, but I’m doing maybe 2-3 attractions with them per day. While I visit WDW around 30+ days in year, that’s still not a ton of line experiences compared to a family that goes 7 days and does 10-15 a day. Anyway, my personal experience has been that with the exceptions of rides going down, I’ve never spent more than 20 minutes in a LL queue, and most have been in the 5-10 minute range. Even when Ratatouille’s LL is backed up to the creperie, it moved and wasn’t more than 20 minutes. I visit all times of year, so it’s not that I’m only there in the off-season (does that even exist anymore?!), though I’m pretty much never in the parks before noon.

I promise, I’m legitimately asking, not being snarky: have I just somehow been lucky all this time and LL waits are often much longer than that? Or is the expectation that LL waits should never be as long as 20 minutes? And/or is it certain rides that get particularly bad? It’s possible they just aren’t rides I’m doing in the first place. I guess I’m feeling like these changes are a lot for something that hasn’t felt all that broken to me in the first place, and I’m wondering what I’m missing.

I think there are a lot of assumptions.
The only attractions we've run into with long waits in the Lightning Lane are those with frequent breakdowns. Mostly things like Remy and Rise of the Resistance. When they open back up, everyone who couldn't ride during the shutdown come back and the line gets long until the 'overage' gets taken care of.

 

[GoingSince1990]

No because I cannot stand still or sit for too long a period of time without excruciating pain. When that happens, my legs cannot support me. If this happens, at 66yo, my arms are not strong enough to support me with my rollator for more than several seconds so I collapse. The pain is so intense that the only way I could leave the park would be on a stretcher.
At home when this has happened it lasts for about a week to 10 days. I have to literally army crawl to the bathroom and use my arms to lift myself onto the potty which is agonizing but needs must because a bedpan moves my spine in such a way that the pain is increased. We've had to purchase an adjustable bed because it has infinite positions and for the most part, I am bedridden.
Last November we went to WDW with 2 of our grandchildren. My rollator plus the DAS enabled me to get around the parks for a few hours each day. When I had to go back to the room, my husband stayed in the parks with the children. Our scheduled trip in May will be my last. My husband and I are bringing our other 2 grandchildren (8 and 10) and I really would like to spend at least a few hours in the parks with them.

How would you respond to a Disney CM who said “it sounds as though your needs would be addressed by renting a wheelchair, which you can get in and out of during the wait in line, so you would never have to stand still or sit for too long a period of time”?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It isn't a question of a DAS option being unsatisfactory. It's a question of a DAS option offered being unsuitable for my condition.

I meant if the alternative Disney offered you instead of DAS was unsatisfactory to you. If that went to court you would have to prove (just like prior lawsuits) that the only option was the DAS and that you rightfully should have been given it. Not preferring the option offered and collapsing in line and then suing....yeah...

 

[Evita_W]

How would you respond to a Disney CM who said “it sounds as though your needs would be addressed by renting a wheelchair, which you can get in and out of during the wait in line, so you would never have to stand still or sit for too long a period of time”?

The simple answer is "Have you ever tried to push an empty wheelchair through the parks and queues?" If they have, they would understand why this doesn't work. Of course, no longer an issue for DH and I, but used to be

 

[Tatebeck]

I was rolling all of the talk around in my head over lunch earlier and something struck me: the concern mostly seems to be that too many DAS groups using the LLs causing long waits in the LL lines, right? Does anyone have data on just how long those waits are and how often they’re that long? Even anecdotal?

I ask because I am not a super user of DAS, G+, or ILL. I do use DAS and occasionally ILL, but I’m doing maybe 2-3 attractions with them per day. While I visit WDW around 30+ days in year, that’s still not a ton of line experiences compared to a family that goes 7 days and does 10-15 a day. Anyway, my personal experience has been that with the exceptions of rides going down, I’ve never spent more than 20 minutes in a LL queue, and most have been in the 5-10 minute range. Even when Ratatouille’s LL is backed up to the creperie, it moved and wasn’t more than 20 minutes. I visit all times of year, so it’s not that I’m only there in the off-season (does that even exist anymore?!), though I’m pretty much never in the parks before noon.

I promise, I’m legitimately asking, not being snarky: have I just somehow been lucky all this time and LL waits are often much longer than that? Or is the expectation that LL waits should never be as long as 20 minutes? And/or is it certain rides that get particularly bad? It’s possible they just aren’t rides I’m doing in the first place. I guess I’m feeling like these changes are a lot for something that hasn’t felt all that broken to me in the first place, and I’m wondering what I’m missing.

It's going to be hard to pinpoint exactly how "long" the LLs are because when they get busier or backed up, the cast members can just increase the ratio of LL to standby queue guests. If they double how many LL to standby guests go through during a busy hour, but the line stays the same "15 minute length" it can be deceiving. The LL will have seemed to not be any busier from one person to another, but they had to double the ratio, so the line was technically twice as long. This would just back up the regular line, which I'm sure it has been doing when the standby wait times spike and when Disney can say DAS is now affecting it's normal operations too much

 

[ClaraOswald]

I agree with you and I always assumed the GAC and DAS were setup and used for mostly special needs kids and adults. But after the news broke that Disney was changing who qualifies for a DAS pass and the outrage that broke out I realized that wasn’t the case.

I didn’t realize that 90% of the population qualified for a DAS. Most of us have some kind of issues. I have an autoimmune disease and also suffer with anxiety/panic disorder for years. I never liked closed in places and crowds. My brother has colitis and we both been to Disney many times in our lives, but never tried to get a DAS because the world doesn’t revolve around us and our diseases or disorders. We have the cognitive understanding and skills to navigate the world with our issues and that includes Disney.

A child and adult with special needs don’t have the cognitive understanding and skills to navigate the world like we do. They have a lot fewer interests and also many become obsessed and repetitive with their interests. Disney being one of them. I think if Disney decides to just let people with special needs like autism, etc get the DAS I think that is fair.

I am happy for you CaliforniaGirl09 that you and your family found a place that your DS and your family can share and enjoy the happiness together. I hope your DS and your family have many more wonderful magical years at Disney.

My husband and I were talking about this today. I have fairly severe social anxiety and generalized anxiety. I have a lot of sensory issues as well. I'm 42 years old but had I been born in the last decade, I'm sure I would have been diagnosed as autistic. However, my neurodivergent traits and challenges aren't the same as someone like my son. I know we aren't supposed to say some disabilities are "worse" than others. But just in speaking of myself and my son....his ability to manage day to day life (and vacations) is vastly different than my own.

If we take my son out of the equation and look at the years I went to the parks before he was born...would something like DAS have made my day easier/more enjoyable? Sure. But did I NEED accommodations to be able to go onto attractions? No. I didn't. Because, like you said, I have the cognitive ability to understand the situation of a queue and manage the wait, even if it's not a fun time (because is waiting a queue fun for anyone??)

My son is 10 years old now. I'm not going to go into all the details about why the queue is likely so difficult for him. But it definitely is. He truly needs something like DAS. And there are so many people, of all ages, just like him. I would love if someday he could 'graduate' from needing a service like this. If he can someday understand the waiting. But I do truly think that DAS was created for people like him. People who truly cannot navigate the world in the same way as most people.

I do hope they find other accomodations for people with all types of disabilities. But I really don't believe the DAS system is meant for every single types of disability/issue that exists.

 

[GoingSince1990]

The simple answer is "Have you ever tried to push an empty wheelchair through the parks and queues?" If they have, they would understand why this doesn't work. Of course, no longer an issue for DH and I, but used to be

Disney claims that the queues are wheelchair accessible, and most people seem to agree as you are the first poster that I have seen disputing this claim. I do have doubts that disagreeing with Disney about how wheelchair accessible the queues are will always be a path to getting a DAS.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The simple answer is "Have you ever tried to push an empty wheelchair through the parks and queues?" If they have, they would understand why this doesn't work.

It seems like from the update verbiage they have actually allowed a previously prohibited item (the cane chair) to help ease mobility issues, I think they are considering a wider array of things that can help. I'm not saying that a cane chair is what is appropriate for the other poster just that Disney is already thinking of alternative ways that might have been covered previously under DAS. Then again over the last year or two I've seen increasing denials of DAS when a main issue (which depends person to person) is "solved" by using a mobility device.

 

[ClaraOswald]

Anecdotal. We were at WDW in January. We were in the DAS/LL for Rise and I didn't watch the time but we got stuck right before the room where you line up to board....the ride broke down. We were probably waiting close to 30 minutes when they had us leave the queue.

When we returned later after it reopened, the DAS/LL was pretty backed up. I'd say it took us 20-30 minutes because that's about our threshold and I was so grateful we were able to make it on. It was our son's first time riding it!

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

I agree with you and I always assumed the GAC and DAS were setup and used for mostly special needs kids and adults. But after the news broke that Disney was changing who qualifies for a DAS pass and the outrage that broke out I realized that wasn’t the case.

I didn’t realize that 90% of the population qualified for a DAS. Most of us have some kind of issues. I have an autoimmune disease and also suffer with anxiety/panic disorder for years. I never liked closed in places and crowds. My brother has colitis and we both been to Disney many times in our lives, but never tried to get a DAS because the world doesn’t revolve around us and our diseases or disorders. We have the cognitive understanding and skills to navigate the world with our issues and that includes Disney.

A child and adult with special needs don’t have the cognitive understanding and skills to navigate the world like we do. They have a lot fewer interests and also many become obsessed and repetitive with their interests. Disney being one of them. I think if Disney decides to just let people with special needs like autism, etc get the DAS I think that is fair.

I am happy for you CaliforniaGirl09 that you and your family found a place that your DS and your family can share and enjoy the happiness together. I hope your DS and your family have many more wonderful magical years at Disney.

Thank you so much for the lovely response. Your comments brought tears to my eyes. And you are totally right about Disney for the special needs population. I joke to my husband that I think it's a prerequisite There are a number of fabulous organizations (Camp Krem and Trips are two I know about) that have group Disney trips and they always fill up quickly.

 

[Disneychick75]

How would you respond to a Disney CM who said “it sounds as though your needs would be addressed by renting a wheelchair, which you can get in and out of during the wait in line, so you would never have to stand still or sit for too long a period of time”?

I've tried at least 10 wheelchairs trying to find one that works - so far none have. I wish I could find one because it would make my life much easier.

 

[StarGirl11]

My husband and I were talking about this today. I have fairly severe social anxiety and generalized anxiety. I have a lot of sensory issues as well. I'm 42 years old but had I been born in the last decade, I'm sure I would have been diagnosed as autistic. However, my neurodivergent traits and challenges aren't the same as someone like my son. I know we aren't supposed to say some disabilities are "worse" than others. But just in speaking of myself and my son....his ability to manage day to day life (and vacations) is vastly different than my own.

If we take my son out of the equation and look at the years I went to the parks before he was born...would something like DAS have made my day easier/more enjoyable? Sure. But did I NEED accommodations to be able to go onto attractions? No. I didn't. Because, like you said, I have the cognitive ability to understand the situation of a queue and manage the wait, even if it's not a fun time (because is waiting a queue fun for anyone??)

My son is 10 years old now. I'm not going to go into all the details about why the queue is likely so difficult for him. But it definitely is. He truly needs something like DAS. And there are so many people, of all ages, just like him. I would love if someday he could 'graduate' from needing a service like this. If he can someday understand the waiting. But I do truly think that DAS was created for people like him. People who truly cannot navigate the world in the same way as most people.

I do hope they find other accomodations for people with all types of disabilities. But I really don't believe the DAS system is meant for every single types of disability/issue that exists.

I feel like some of this convo is straying away from developmental and towards intellectual disabilities. Which can be comorbid of each other but aren’t 100 percent the same thing.

Like I personally fundamentally understand that I can wait in line. But my support needs that are related to my developmental disorder means no amount of my brain understanding it will make it that I can handle the queue due to other factors that aren’t just understanding I need to wait in line.

I get that some of the cases are because people don’t understand the concept of waiting in line. But there is enough conflation of intellectual with developmental at times that it gets frustrating.

I will go into a meltdown if I’m in a queue environment. Not because I can’t understand why I’m in the line. But because of my sensory issues. That’s what my brain doesn’t process.

Like if you can understand the concept of the line. And can do it just fine without setting off your other issues. Fine. Great. Seriously I’m happy some of y’all don’t have that concern.

But that doesn’t mean that’s the case for everyone of us who has one. Especially one on the rarer side.

let’s not pretend it’s a full ‘either someone understands they need to stand in line or not’ thing.

 

[Evita_W]

My husband and I were talking about this today. I have fairly severe social anxiety and generalized anxiety. I have a lot of sensory issues as well. I'm 42 years old but had I been born in the last decade, I'm sure I would have been diagnosed as autistic. However, my neurodivergent traits and challenges aren't the same as someone like my son. I know we aren't supposed to say some disabilities are "worse" than others. But just in speaking of myself and my son....his ability to manage day to day life (and vacations) is vastly different than my own.

If we take my son out of the equation and look at the years I went to the parks before he was born...would something like DAS have made my day easier/more enjoyable? Sure. But did I NEED accommodations to be able to go onto attractions? No. I didn't. Because, like you said, I have the cognitive ability to understand the situation of a queue and manage the wait, even if it's not a fun time (because is waiting a queue fun for anyone??)

My son is 10 years old now. I'm not going to go into all the details about why the queue is likely so difficult for him. But it definitely is. He truly needs something like DAS. And there are so many people, of all ages, just like him. I would love if someday he could 'graduate' from needing a service like this. If he can someday understand the waiting. But I do truly think that DAS was created for people like him. People who truly cannot navigate the world in the same way as most people.

I do hope they find other accomodations for people with all types of disabilities. But I really don't believe the DAS system is meant for every single types of disability/issue that exists.

I also wonder if you were born today if you would be more like yourself or your son with your needs though, as I wonder if maybe we over accommodate at times too, we were pretty much just left to deal with things and not given the tools they have today. I am not saying one is right or wrong, just wondering if there is a difference.

 

[Rowab]

I feel like some of this convo is straying away from developmental and towards intellectual disabilities. Which can be comorbid of each other but aren’t 100 percent the same thing.

Like I personally fundamentally understand that I can wait in line. But my support needs that are related to my developmental disorder means no amount of my brain understanding it will make it that I can handle the queue due to other factors that aren’t just understanding I need to wait in line.

I get that some of the cases are because people don’t understand the concept of waiting in line. But there is enough conflation of intellectual with developmental at times that it gets frustrating.

I will go into a meltdown if I’m in a queue environment. Not because I can’t understand why I’m in the line. But because of my sensory issues. That’s what my brain doesn’t process.

Like if you can understand the concept of the line. And can do it just fine without setting off your other issues. Fine. Great. Seriously I’m happy some of y’all don’t have that concern.

But that doesn’t mean that’s the case for everyone of us who has one. Especially one on the rarer side.

But let’s not pretend it’s a full ‘either someone understands they need to stand in line or not’ thing.

this. exactly this. i have a developmental disability and sound very similar to you in how i am in lines. i do not have an intelluctual disability. i can reason to myself all i want now about how to manage lines etc, but when its happening that makes no difference. where do we fit?

 

[lanejudy]

Is an adult with a mobility disability who uses a stroller as a mobility device to assist with walking

I have heard of that. Maybe a Mom with a 1 yr old, but Mom is recovering from a broken pelvis. She can’t use a rollator or other device because the child is too young to walk. The stroller-as-wheelchair becomes her mobility device.

 

[StevieB81]

I'm a little behind, but I've seen several posts about how families split up all the time. Yes, no disagreement there. However, unless I missed something, every example discussed was a choice. A conscious decision made. Not something directed by someone outside the family. I think I'll just read from now on. Our trip is before any changes happen, as I posted before. I find it somewhat amusing that people that don't have a certain condition seem to find it very easy to determine what a reasonable accommodation is for someone that does.