Dark Ride Help

[kenny]

I leave in a few days and am looking forward to improving my dark ride shots. In the past I was able to get usable shots using a Nikon D60 and 35mm/f1.8. Went with shutter priority, 1/30 iso 1600. Examples below.

However, I upgraded several months back to the D7000. Have not been able to get a faster lens so the f/1.8 35mm will have to do. Was listening to Tom B’s podcast over the weekend on dark rides from a few weeks back and looking for some more advice.

Definitely thinking I have to up the ISO a bit, to at least 3200 for Pirates and HM. Think 6400 is a better choice or too much noise? Never been able to get a good shot of all 3 Hitchhiking Ghosts. I know for something like Peter Pan will have to go 12800 but thinking I need better than f/1.8 for anything usable.

Think stepping up the EV +1 or 2+ is worth it or just do that PP if needed.
Any advice is welcome. With little kids my number of trial and error rides is limited.

TIA

 

[photo_chick]

I used a Canon 50D and a 50mm f/1.8. (I stopped doing ride shots like this a couple trips ago) Your 35mm f/1.8 is actually a touch faster because of the shorter focal length. I tended to hover around ISO 3200. A lot of it is learning what the slowest shutter speed you can get away with is and making that information work for you.

 

[NLD]

I think your basic strategy stays the same: shutter speed priority, lowest ss you can reasonably handhold on a moving ride, and highest ISO you are comfortable using.

3200 ISO for Pirates, Splash, most of Haunted Mansion.

10,000 ISO for Peter Pan.... that's what I needed, looking back over the few semi-successful shots I've gotten. Does the D7000 go that high?

 

[kenny]

I think your basic strategy stays the same: shutter speed priority, lowest ss you can reasonably handhold on a moving ride, and highest ISO you are comfortable using.

3200 ISO for Pirates, Splash, most of Haunted Mansion.

10,000 ISO for Peter Pan.... that's what I needed, looking back over the few semi-successful shots I've gotten. Does the D7000 go that high?

D7000 can go to 25600 (Hi-2). Not that I can see ever using that high and getting anything decent though

 

[NLD]

Yeah, can't imagine 25K+ being usable, really.

10,000 on my D700 was pushing it, as far as I'm concerned.

Actually looking back on some pics... 1600 ISO, 1/60s, f/1.4 on Pirates and Splash worked out okay for a number of shots. So if you're going down to 1/30, with 1.8, you might still be okay at 1600 or maybe 2000 ISO for those two.

 

[Gianna'sPapa]

I have the same sensor in my Pentax that you have in the Nikon. I used the Sigma 30 f1.4, but maybe you can extrapolate the exif to match your equipment. I hope it helps.

f1.8, 1/125, ISO 6400

PotC 21 by Terry McGraw Photography, on Flickr

f1.4,1/100,ISO 12800

PP Mermaid by Terry McGraw Photography, on Flickr

f1.4,1/100,ISO 3200

GMR 3 by Terry McGraw Photography, on Flickr

f3.5, 1/125, ISO 12800

HM2 by Terry McGraw Photography, on Flickr

 

[lainev]

I would put your D7000 in auto iso with a low shutter speed of 1/80 for slow moving objects to 1/30 hand-held for non-moving objects. Shoot aperture priority at f/1.8 but remember that this will give you a narrow depth of field so focus will be critical. For moving objects use af-c and for stationary objects use af-s. Manually select your focus point and use either center weighted or spot metering. I also keep -0.7 exposure compensation for most of my shots because I find that the D7000 will over expose a tad. Make sure that you shoot raw so that you can get the most out of your camera. Best of luck.

 

[kenny]

I have the same sensor in my Pentax that you have in the Nikon. I used the Sigma 30 f1.4, but maybe you can extrapolate the exif to match your equipment. I hope it helps.

Thanks for the examples. Most of these seem to be obtainable. If I slow down the shutter speed on your f/1.4 shots I should be close. The nice thing about the D7000 is that it has 2 users settings so I can pre-set and switch easily in-ride. Not sure if Pentax has similar.

Great shots by the way!

 

[NLD]

1/60 is a reasonable shutter speed for most dark rides. I wouldn't go lower than that unless the ride stops in front of a dark scene and you have the time to play with it.

I also recommend shutter priority. There's really no reason to use aperture priority. If you're in aperture priority, you run the risk of getting shutter speeds that are too slow. If you're in shutter priority, you will probably get an aperture of 1.8 but if there's enough light, you'll get a smaller aperture, which is just a bonus in terms of more depth of field.

As far as metering, I've had success with both matrix and spot metering. Depends on what you want. Spot has sometimes left things too dark and I had to add fill light in post processing. Matrix has sometimes left scenes too light, trying to make gray out of black. Obviously you can address these issues by metering off something that makes sense (close to gray) or using exposure compensation.

For me... I don't worry too much either way and just make sure to shoot RAW. Having tried both spot and matrix, with and without exposure comp, I'm not sure it makes a ton of difference as long as you're in the ballpark with the exposure and shoot RAW. That gives plenty of latitude for perfecting the image in post processing.


All of these were shot in shutter priority mode...



1/80, ISO 1600, camera chose f/1.8. Spot metering.


MNSSHP October 2011-8402 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr


1/100, ISO 1600, camera chose f/1.4. Spot metering. +1/3 EV.


MNSSHP October 2011-8469 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr


1/100, ISO 1600, camera chose f/2.5. Spot metering. +1/3 EV.


MNSSHP October 2011-8494 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr


1/60, ISO 1600, camera chose f/1.4. Spot metering. +1/3 EV.


MNSSHP October 2011-8456 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr


1/60, ISO 1600, camera chose f/1.4. Spot metering.


MNSSHP October 2011-8362 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr

 

[NLD]

Here are my most passable Peter Pan shots... and they all have some heavy noise reduction on them. Should go back and try a little Topaz detail on these to see if I can get them crisper, but anyway...

This one is SO tough to shoot...

Still in shutter priority mode.

Exif on all of these: 1/80, ISO 10,000, camera chose f/1.4. - 1/3 EV. Matrix metering.


SelectedFlorida2010-252 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr



SelectedFlorida2010-253 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr



SelectedFlorida2010-254 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr


SelectedFlorida2010-256 by nicole_lynn_, on Flickr


Peter Pan and the Finding Nemo ride in Epcot are the toughest dark rides, IMO. Nemo is also very dark.

 

[boBQuincy]

I like aperture priority for dark rides because if we set it to the widest aperture it guarantees we will always get the fastest shutter speed possible. If the shutter speed is too slow it is because there is just not enough light, there is nothing we can do about it.
A little negative exposure compensation can sometimes help to make the image look more like the scene actually was instead of too bright but we have to be careful of "exposing to the left" and losing most of our birghtness values.

I haven't done much dark ride photography recently but will have to try the Panasonic/Leica 25mm f/1.4 to see how it performs in these demanding situations.

 

[NLD]

I like aperture priority for dark rides because if we set it to the widest aperture it guarantees we will always get the fastest shutter speed possible. If the shutter speed is too slow it is because there is just not enough light, there is nothing we can do about it.

Bob this used to be my line of thought too.

Then I switched to shutter priority because....

...underexposed at 1/60, ISO 6400, f/1.4--I have a chance of saving in post processing.

...properly exposed at 1/10, ISO 6400, f/1.4--no chance of saving it in post if it's blurry. (And it will be blurry in my hands, at 1/10).

 

[kenny]

1/60 is a reasonable shutter speed for most dark rides. I wouldn't go lower than that unless the ride stops in front of a dark scene and you have the time to play with it.

I also recommend shutter priority. There's really no reason to use aperture priority. If you're in aperture priority, you run the risk of getting shutter speeds that are too slow. If you're in shutter priority, you will probably get an aperture of 1.8 but if there's enough light, you'll get a smaller aperture, which is just a bonus in terms of more depth of field.

As far as metering, I've had success with both matrix and spot metering. Depends on what you want. Spot has sometimes left things too dark and I had to add fill light in post processing. Matrix has sometimes left scenes too light, trying to make gray out of black. Obviously you can address these issues by metering off something that makes sense (close to gray) or using exposure compensation.

For me... I don't worry too much either way and just make sure to shoot RAW. Having tried both spot and matrix, with and without exposure comp, I'm not sure it makes a ton of difference as long as you're in the ballpark with the exposure and shoot RAW. That gives plenty of latitude for perfecting the image in post processing.

Agree with the shutter priority. That is generally what I do on dark rides. My shots above were 1/30 as I was keeping to the 1/focal length rule but looks like you are getting good results with faster shutter speeds. Will have to try bumping it up a bit.

I shoot RAW so I can manipulate PP as well. My thinking is I will generally stay with Matrix metering as that will give me the best results. Can see maybe changing to spot for madam leoda or something specific like that.

Awesome shots on Pan. Would love to get something usuable on that ride. Only thing to date has been the sign out front!

thanks everyone for all the advice

 

[mom2rtk]

Great shots Nicole! Peter Pan remains my nemesis! But I'm more than willing to give it another try this year. Did you use manual focus? I just can't seem to lock focus, even when trying to find some contrast.

 

[boBQuincy]

Bob this used to be my line of thought too.

Then I switched to shutter priority because....

...underexposed at 1/60, ISO 6400, f/1.4--I have a chance of saving in post processing.

...properly exposed at 1/10, ISO 6400, f/1.4--no chance of saving it in post if it's blurry. (And it will be blurry in my hands, at 1/10).

Your results sure are good! I may try both methods on our next trip and see how they compare. If I preset S to 1/60 and A to f/1.4 I may be able to switch between them quickly enough. Maybe...

 

[NateNLogansDad]

I find that the easiest way to get good dark ride shots, is to steal them from NLD's trip report


Just kidding. I really didn't do too many dark rides on our last trip but here's one picture with the ISO at 6400 taken with a Nikon D5100 (same sensor as the D7000.) I shoot RAW and I'm not positive what I did in post. Usually, I just bring the exposure down a little to clean up the noise, but sometimes I run DeNoise to clean it up also.

 

[lainev]

Auto ISO with aperture priority works really well during dark ride situations. You control your minimum acceptable shutter speed and maximum acceptable ISO within the Auto ISO setting (on D7000: shooting menu, ISO sensitivity settings.) When the aperture forces the shutter speed below your desired setting, ISO is bumped up. This enables one to get the best possible exposure and lowest ISO with the least amount of adjusting. You do have to think ahead to determine your lowest acceptable shutter speed.