Dark Days at Disney World

[Cris]

I am not totally sure but I think Chatham, and the Commons are leased to Disney. So in theory, disney is the leasee.

 

[kathylovesdisneyworl]

Originally posted by rwodonnell



So to wrap up a long post (sorry), the bottom line is Disney could, I would imagine, be held liable if it could be proved that they know about this behaviour (i.e. been told about it in the past, had other allegations in the past, etc.) and did not take measures to prevent it from continuing. However, that standard might be pretty hard to reach. [/B]

Interesting research. I take this to say that legally they could possibly be held accountable but in reality would probably not . With all of those possiblys and probablys in that sentence I bet I could be a weather person.LOL

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from Cris
I am not totally sure but I think Chatham, and the Commons are leased to Disney. So in theory, disney is the leasee.
_____________________________

Thanks Cris.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by Phoebesaturn
OK let me see if get it yet...the first story can be dismissed...Jim Hills story can be dismissed...what about the other posters who rang in with some of the same complaints? Dismiss them as well?

I never said the first story can be dismissed. Those comments came from other people. And I didn't even say that Jim Hill's story can be dismissed. I simply said that putting a story on Jim's website doesn't make it any more credible than it was before it got there.

As for other posters with the same complaints, I still believe these are the exceptions and not the rule at WDW. There are literally thousands of college kids who go through the internship and fellowship programs every year, and we hear about a handful of partiers and harrassers. Go to any program out there where college kids all live in the same general area and you'll find that for every batch of kids, there are the hard-core partiers and people who don't belong. No group of college kids are going to instantly become model citizens simply because they're working at Disney. Disney can train them, they can provide housing and security, they can give them standards of conduct, they can work them so hard that they're dead tired at the end of the day. But if someone wants to get in trouble, they will. If someone wants to behave inappropriately, they will. When did accepting someone as an intern become a babysitting job? At 18 or 19 or 20 you are responsible for your own actions.

Disney's job here is to address and attempt to solve the problem once it's brought to their attention. What we don't know here is if it WAS brought to their attention. So ... to decry all of Disney for a series of problems that may have never even been reported in the first place seems unfair to me. IMO.

 

[crusader]

Very well said WDSearcher.

Is there any information out there which follows up on this to let us know how it was actually handled?

 

[caseymaureen]

mikelly,
It is possible to change rooms, although it is a somewhat difficult process. You are originally assigned to room with whoever you happen to be in line with upon signing in for the program.
From personal experience, all of my roommates enjoyed going to parties, in and out of the complex, and none were ever disciplined. I do know people who were disciplined and who were fired from the program from partying. I did not change rooms, but I know a few people who did. Although from what I heard it was a lot of paperwork, it didn't take too long to actually be moved. It was mostly an issue of finding someone new to live with, because if you just moved randomly you could end up in a situation worse than you started with. There were a lot of parties in the complexes, and there were a lot of difficult people. Most of the people I met disliked at least one of their roommates, but most didn't think it was a big enough issue to move and leave the other roommate(s).
So, to sum it up: Yes, there are a lot of parties. Yes, you can be fired for it, although that doesn't happen too often. And Yes, you can change apartments, although most people choose not to.

 

[Phoebesaturn]

Yes, there are a lot of parties. Yes, you can be fired for it,

So Disney controls and fires people for this? Yet there are post after post of people here saying that Disney is not responsible for what happens in the Dorms...sure seems like they can be responsible when they want to.

 

[crusader]

Phoebesaturn:

Disney is responsible for how the company handles a situation like this (and possibly liable depending on the situation). They are certainly not responsible for how a person chooses to act.

 

[Chuck S]

Don't forget that "firing" people today for almost anything requires documentation. People have to be "warned" (often repeatedly) and there must be documentation of those warnings. Otherwise there is the threat of a wrongful termination suit and unemployment tax increases.

 

[RadioNate]

All I know is this - I'm a 3 time CP alumni.

Disney ternimates CP's living in thier apartment complexes (Cp do not live in dorms or dorm-like housing, they live in apartment complexes that disney either owns or leases for that use) that violate the rules. The CP signs a contract agreeing to Disney's rules. If you are caught violating them, you are sent home. Underage drinking is one of these rules.

I am confident enough and have enough first-hand knowledge of the college program to know that IF Disney was notified of sexual harrasment they would take action.

Disney does NOT promise room assignments, you can state your preference to have your own room but that doesn't mean it will be honored. It is possible to move. Over my three programs I had 5 roomates move. Four asked to be reassigned and one was asked to leave. It any case it was never really all that difficult.

Every negative CP story I read have things in common. One is that the writer "self terminates" and goes home early the other is that the writer feels that Disney "broke a promise" to them reguarding something about the program. The truth is CP is hard. It isn't all roses but living through it is half the fun. You are constantly tested and those who finish have a better understanding of who they are and who they want to be. Think of it as a real world boot camp.

Could this situation have happened at Disney, sure...at nearly any college campus in the US, you bet. Disney can only police what they are aware of and terminate the peole responsible. Disney does set forth guidelines for behavior, however it's up to the student to follow them. If they don't and are caught they will be terminated...Disney does not give second chances to CPs. Yes people violate the rules and don't get caught, just like in real life.

As for the original article, there are pleanty of people that this girl could have talked to to change her situation. You hardly get to your work location in 2 weeks on CP let alone know what it's all about.

As for the Jim Hill articles. Read the message board replies for ALL the CMCorner CP articles. There are so many holes in one of the articles it is nearly a work of fiction. I used to believe in Mr Hill until he published something that I knew way more about then he did and realized just how misinformed he could be.

alison

 

[Phoebesaturn]

Originally posted by crusader
Phoebesaturn:

Disney is responsible for how the company handles a situation like this (and possibly liable depending on the situation).

Great now we agree.

 

[dcentity2000]

Originally posted by Phoebesaturn
So Disney controls and fires people for this? Yet there are post after post of people here saying that Disney is not responsible for what happens in the Dorms...sure seems like they can be responsible when they want to.

Disney is responsible insofar as to provide adequate and safe accodation which lives up to or surpasses unambiguous representations made by itself. Individual behaviour of an employee has no effect on the company as far as liability goes, whilst if there is an intermediate entity governing a sector of said company subject to a problem then said entity may be liable as opposed to the parent company, unless Disney (the parent company) knew of their unsatisfactory actions



Rich::

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by rwodonnell
Possibility 4: Disney was made aware of it, is addressing it in an ongoing manner, and the article does not address it because it is still unresolved or because they are unaware of what Disney's actions on the matter are.

In fact there are many more possibilities than exist in your simplistic model.

My problem is that you are calling the report "highly suspect", which calls into question the testimony of this woman, simply because the article does not reference Disney's response to the problem. That is not "crystal clear logic".

Also, regarding possibility one, as you outline them, I also fail to see how this woman's possible failure to report this to Disney results in your complete indifference to whether or not this occurred. Would you be so cavalier to someone who told a reporter they were raped? Are you aware of how many people do not report sexual assaults or harrassment right away? Most just try to remove themselves from the situation, because of fear, shame, or any number of natural (though undeserved) emotions. Reporting it later is not at all unusual.

I guess I just don't understand the indifference to this sort of story. Statements like "youth is wasted on the young" and "we are wasting our time" discussing this just mystify me.

and the fact that even your possibility 4 was not reported shows either that the reporter did not do the appropriate reporting or intentionally left that very important info out...I am not indifferent--I am outraged that organizations can put out lies and pretend to be some sort of model of decency and probity when they are actually a model of all that is wrong with the religious...I can't get concerned about a story from a deceitful hateful source.. the story is so blatantly ridiculous as presented that it has lost all credibility....If they reported that space aliens raped them it would be as believable. In short--the FRC is completely untrustworthy and their reporting of this story proves how untrustworthy they are...

Those who believe in the FRC can believe what they say...for those of us who actually require evidence before we have any confidence in the validity of something--- we find such stories hard to swallow...

 

[rwodonnell]

Originally posted by PKS44
and the fact that even your possibility 4 was not reported shows either that the reporter did not do the appropriate reporting or intentionally left that very important info out...I am not indifferent--I am outraged that organizations can put out lies and pretend to be some sort of model of decency and probity when they are actually a model of all that is wrong with the religious...I can't get concerned about a story from a deceitful hateful source..

So which is it - you are outraged or you "can't get concerned"?

the story is so blatantly ridiculous as presented that it has lost all credibility....If they reported that space aliens raped them it would be as believable. In short--the FRC is completely untrustworthy and their reporting of this story proves how untrustworthy they are...

Exaggerate much? I think you're the one losing credibility. I don't think many here are saying the story is definitely true, but if you truly think that it is as unbelievable as your space aliens example, then you are living in a different world.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by Phoebesaturn
So Disney controls and fires people for this? Yet there are post after post of people here saying that Disney is not responsible for what happens in the Dorms...sure seems like they can be responsible when they want to.

"Controls" is a strong word.

Disney, as any other company out there, has standards of conduct. CMs are made aware of these standards of conduct, and CPs sign a document saying that they will abide by the rules and follow the standards of conduct for working at WDW.

If a CPer or CM violates these standards or rules, they are terminated. However, as in real life, lots of people break the rules and are never caught.

Which brings us back to the original question / quandry ... did the woman in question ever take her concerns, particularly her claim that "Unexpectedly, the pair dropped their pants and proceeded to enact a sex act in front of us", to Disney. Did she speak to anyone at all about it? Did she file a complaint? Did she do anything at all to communicate to Disney or the CP management that this was happening.

If she DID take this to Disney and Disney did absolutely nothing -- no investigation, no punishment, no firings, nothing -- then Disney can be faulted for knowing about the situation and not addressing it. If, however, she terminated her employment with Disney without ever once mentioning that this happened to her, then I don't see how you can continue to say that Disney is irresponsible where this woman is concerned.

As for the partying and sex spoken of in the article, there is no way that Disney can police their CP cast 24 / 7 -- part of being on the College Program is to learn responsibility and get experience being out of school and into the world on your own. When I was 20 years old, I chose to party. When I was 25, I chose not to any more. But that doesn't mean that the college I went to was responsible for my ridiculous behavior when I was drunk. That was my fault and my responsibility. And my parents would have been appalled if I had in any way implied that it was my college's job to make sure I didn't drink when I wasn't supposed to or to make sure that I wasn't having sex in the swimming pool (which ... just for the record ... I never did ... ).

 

[Mikelly1221]

Good summary WDSearcher!

 

[outstandinfarmer]

I am very religious and I'm even going to college to become a pastor, but I highly doubt this story. I think of James Dobson to be a pretty good guy, but I also know several homosexuals and none would act that way. The only way I could see them doing something like that (and still, a long shot) is if she was harassing them about their sexual preference. She was almost acting as if they were another species doing animalistic ritiuals.

 

[rwodonnell]

Originally posted by outstandinfarmer
I am very religious and I'm even going to college to become a pastor, but I highly doubt this story. I think of James Dobson to be a pretty good guy, but I also know several homosexuals and none would act that way. The only way I could see them doing something like that (and still, a long shot) is if she was harassing them about their sexual preference. She was almost acting as if they were another species doing animalistic ritiuals.

That's some tough logic to argue with. I change my mind, this couldn't have happened. And neither did any of the priest child molestation scandals. After all, I know a few and none of them would ever do that. For that matter, I think the Abu Ghraib thing is a whole lotta hogwash too, after all, I was in the military, and nobody I ever knew would do anything like that. None of my friends have ever raped, or murdered anyone, and almost none of them even vote Democrat. So I think it's a myth that those things exist.

I don't even know what to make of your last remark - I mean, really, call me a square, but if someone were to commit an indecent act (i.e. an act that ought to be reserved for privacy) in front of me, I might be a tad revolted.

 

[outstandinfarmer]

I don't even know what to make of your last remark - I mean, really, call me a square, but if someone were to commit an indecent act (i.e. an act that ought to be reserved for privacy) in front of me, I might be a tad revolted.

Well, of course, who wouldn't be?

That's some tough logic to argue with. I change my mind, this couldn't have happened. And neither did any of the priest child molestation scandals. After all, I know a few and none of them would ever do that. For that matter, I think the Abu Ghraib thing is a whole lotta hogwash too, after all, I was in the military, and nobody I ever knew would do anything like that. None of my friends have ever raped, or murdered anyone, and almost none of them even vote Democrat. So I think it's a myth that those things exist.

Just because bad things happen, doesn't mean that everytime you hear something bad it's necessarily true. Just because one girl says something happens, I don't need to believe right away. I also know how things can get blown out of proportion. When at one point the kids were making out by the pools, before you know it you are telling people that they are were having sex. I'm just not going to believe something that one person says. I would like to hear more stories about other people's experiences.

I do believe about the drinking and casual sex because I know that's how campuses can be, BUT sex all over the place in front of just everyone I find hard to believe.

 

[rwodonnell]

Originally posted by outstandinfarmer
Just because bad things happen, doesn't mean that everytime you hear something bad it's necessarily true. Just because one girl says something happens, I don't need to believe right away.

Of course. I personally don't know whether it's true or not (as I said in earlier posts.) I was taking issue with your logic. Your stated reason for not believing it was that you "know several homosexuals and none would act that way". I'm just saying that means nothing.

By the way, the story doesn't say there was "sex all over the place", it says an incident took place where two people intentionally performed for the girl who is making the claim.

 

[outstandinfarmer]

"A favorite spot for late night partying and sex--both heterosexual and homosexual--was around the apartment building's swimming pool," Terry said. "The pool Jacuzzi was a frequent locale for open sexual activity."

If it's happing at the pool and the jacuzzi, I seem to get the picture by what she's saying that it was happening all over the place.