Current Riviera incentives and forecasts

[4luv2cdisney]

Is $14-$16 the typical rate you get? Is it resort specific? Can I rent 'any' amount? We really need 161 for our 'typical' 9 night Nov trip but the current incentives make 200 points a better buy. This isn't bad as I would go 2X every 3-4 years or now I can rent them off? I'm still a bit hazy on how banking works. If we use my example, I will have a 39 point surplus every year (assuming points stay the same). Does that mean I have to use up the 200 every 4 years (39 points bank X 4 years)?

Your banked points are ONLY good for the UY you bank them into. You cannot re-bank the same points. Banked points get used before current UY points.

 

[sagosto]

Your banked points are ONLY good for the UY you bank them into. You cannot re-bank the same points. Banked points get used before current UY points.

So in my scenario, I need 160 (161 but let's use 160 for math) per 'visit' which means I will bank 40 every year. I can do that 4X before I have a surplus of 200, correct?

Year 1 = Use 160 | Bank 40
Year 2 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (80 total)
Year 3 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (120 total)
Year 4 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (160 total)
Year 5 = Not 100% sure here. I've been using 160 of my 200 while swapping out the bank and replenishing the bank w/ the left over 40 but it is building up

 

[4luv2cdisney]

So in my scenario, I need 160 (161 but let's use 160 for math) per 'visit' which means I will bank 40 every year. I can do that 4X before I have a surplus of 200, correct?

Year 1 = Use 160 | Bank 40
Year 2 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (80 total)
Year 3 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (120 total)
Year 4 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (160 total)
Year 5 = Not 100% sure here. I've been using 160 of my 200 while swapping out the bank and replenishing the bank w/ the left over 40 but it is building up

In year 5, the 160 points you need are all banked points. You use them and can bank all 200 current UY points. You will lose 40 points in year 6 unless you use them (take a longer trip or upgrade your room) or rent them, etc. You can always only bank current UY points.

 

[sagosto]

In year 5, the 160 points you need are all banked points. You use them and can bank all 200 current UY points. You will lose 40 points in year 6 unless you use them (take a longer trip or upgrade your room) or rent them, etc. You can always only bank current UY points.

This is even better than I thought.

Year 1 = Use 160 | Bank 40
Year 2 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (80 total)
Year 3 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (120 total)
Year 4 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (160 total)
Year 5 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (200 total)
At this point, I have 200 points (40 X 5 years) of banked points. Would I lose 40 in year 6 because I cannot exceed 200? If so, I could use 240 for 5 years to bring me back current. I think I am missing something.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

This is even better than I thought.

Year 1 = Use 160 | Bank 40
Year 2 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (80 total)
Year 3 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (120 total)
Year 4 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (160 total)
Year 5 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (200 total)
At this point, I have 200 points (40 X 5 years) of banked points. Would I lose 40 in year 6 because I cannot exceed 200? If so, I could use 240 for 5 years to bring me back current. I think I am missing something.

It's not really 5 years of points. That's how you're thinking, but it is not technically correct. It is all 200 of the previous UY's points. The only points you can bank are current UY points. You cannot bank any single point more than once (only into the next UY).

So, in year 6, you simply have to use all of your 200 banked points. And if you only use those 200, you are again banking 200 current UY points and will be in the same position next year. Honestly, at some point you need to use more than you plan on or rent some off.

Keep in mind. Nothing is this perfect. Your points are never going to be a perfect use. I read on another thread someone said they'd owned for a long time and only banked and borrowed 1 time. I don't know how that's even possible unless you have the exact # of points you need for your home resort, only stay in your home resort, and miraculously the point structure has never changed over the years or you were always able to find some other week / combo to use the exact points. If they never bank or borrow they either lost points somewhere along the line or book at 7 months using all their current points and buy OTU points to square-up any minor difference.

Also, banking and borrowing are permanent. You cannot bank them and then "take them back" should you decide to take an extra trip. Once you bank, they are "trapped" in the UY they get banked into. Your only option is to use them before the end of that UY.

You haven't even touched on borrowing yet. Borrowing can screw your whole system up if you make changes to your reservation. But one thing at a time. lol

 

[sagosto]

It's not really 5 years of points. That's how you're thinking, but it is not technically correct. It is all 200 of the previous UY's points. The only points you can bank are current UY points. You cannot bank any single point more than once (only into the next UY).

So, in year 6, you simply have to use all of your 200 banked points. And if you only use those 200, you are again banking 200 current UY points and will be in the same position next year. Honestly, at some point you need to use more than you plan on or rent some off.

Keep in mind. Nothing is this perfect. Your points are never going to be a perfect use. I read on another thread someone said they'd owned for a long time and only banked and borrowed 1 time. I don't know how that's even possible unless you have the exact # of points you need for your home resort, only stay in your home resort, and miraculously the point structure has never changed over the years or you were always able to find some other week / combo to use the exact points. If they never bank or borrow they either lost points somewhere along the line or book at 7 months using all their current points and buy OTU points to square-up any minor difference.

I finally get it. I 'need' 161 for my normal trip so I am planning to buy 200 so that every 4-5 years, I can visit 2X in a year. Or, I can upgrade the room. Or, I can try a more point heavy resort. It gives me flexibility. I would think it's difficult to never rent or to buy to get the exact number needed for a particular trip.

Also, banking and borrowing are permanent. You cannot bank them and then "take them back" should you decide to take an extra trip. Once you bank, they are "trapped" in the UY they get banked into. Your only option is to use them before the end of that UY.

You haven't even touched on borrowing yet. Borrowing can screw your whole system up if you make changes to your reservation. But one thing at a time. lol

Can you explain this a bit more? If you bank, it is available on the net UY when the points are replenished? For example, instead of 200 in year #2, it's 240 with the 1st 40 from the previous UY being used first.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

I finally get it. I 'need' 161 for my normal trip so I am planning to buy 200 so that every 4-5 years, I can visit 2X in a year. Or, I can upgrade the room. Or, I can try a more point heavy resort. It gives me flexibility. I would think it's difficult to never rent or to buy to get the exact number needed for a particular trip.




Can you explain this a bit more? If you bank, it is available on the net UY when the points are replenished? For example, instead of 200 in year #2, it's 240 with the 1st 40 from the previous UY being used first.

When you buy your contract you are allotted (ex) 200 points in each and every UY. The UY month is when your particular UY starts.

You are allowed to use whatever points in the UY in which you are traveling. And you have to book within the booking rules.

If you are booking a trip that falls in your 2021 UY, you can use:

2020 banked points (if any)
2021 UY points (not yet banked)
2022 UY points (if borrowed / subject to rules)

Basically, you have access to UP TO 3 years of points at once. Right now borrowing is limited to 1/2 your uy points, so a total of 500 points could be used in 1 UY on a 200 pt contract. (in normal times it would have been 600)

You have until the end of your 8th month of your UY to bank that UYs points. Once you bank them, they can no longer be used in the current UY and will expire at the end of the UY you banked them into.

Lets say you buy DVC tomorrow in an Oct UY and want to book for November 2021. You have to bank your 2020 points FIRST if you want to use them for your 2021 trip. You have until May 31 to bank them. If you don't bank them by May 31, 2021 they expire September 30, 2021. You can still book November 2021 without banking those points, but then the system will take your 2021 points.

Does that make sense?

So, let's go back and say you get your points tomorrow, bank them and book for November as planned. Then you get really excited and decide you can't wait and want to take a trip in May (2 months from now) instead. You cannot use those points you banked because they are now in the 2021 UY and a May 2021 trip is in your 2020 UY. They cannot be moved again.

Still make sense?

But you still want to take a trip in May dang it!!! You would have to borrow your 2021 points (not the banked 2020 points). Currently, you can only borrow 100. In normal times, you could have borrowed all 200. But those 2020 points that are now in your 2021 UY will expire if you don't use them by September 2022.

But now you can see how if you start changing plans after banking or borrowing, your points get a little messy.

 

[CarolMN]

When you buy your contract you are allotted (ex) 200 points in each and every UY. The UY month is when your particular UY starts.

You are allowed to use whatever points in the UY in which you are traveling. And you have to book within the booking rules.

If you are booking a trip that falls in your 2021 UY, you can use:

2020 banked points (if any)
2021 UY points (not yet banked)
2022 UY points (if borrowed / subject to rules)

Basically, you have access to UP TO 3 years of points at once. Right now borrowing is limited to 1/2 your uy points, so a total of 500 points could be used in 1 UY on a 200 pt contract. (in normal times it would have been 600)

You have until the end of your 8th month of your UY to bank that UYs points. Once you bank them, they can no longer be used in the current UY and will expire at the end of the UY you banked them into.

Lets say you buy DVC tomorrow in an Oct UY and want to book for November 2021. You have to bank your 2020 points FIRST if you want to use them for your 2021 trip. You have until May 31 to bank them. If you don't bank them by May 31, 2021 they expire September 30, 2021. You can still book November 2021 without banking those points, but then the system will take your 2021 points.

Does that make sense?

So, let's go back and say you get your points tomorrow, bank them and book for November as planned. Then you get really excited and decide you can't wait and want to take a trip in May (2 months from now) instead. You cannot use those points you banked because they are now in the 2021 UY and a May 2021 trip is in your 2020 UY. They cannot be moved again.

Still make sense?

But you still want to take a trip in May dang it!!! You would have to borrow your 2021 points (not the banked 2020 points). Currently, you can only borrow 100. In normal times, you could have borrowed all 200. But those 2020 points that are now in your 2021 UY will expire if you don't use them by September 2022.

But now you can see how if you start changing plans after banking or borrowing, your points get a little messy.

That's a very good explanation! Thanks for taking the time to do it.

 

[culli]

MFs are based on calendar year not UY of points. Since you were not an owner in 2020, you can’t pay for the running of the resort.

When you buy direct, you are always given current UY points. However, depending on what you buy in the calendar year and UY you pick, it seems like it’s free.

Someone buying an April UY gets 2020 points today because we are still in the 2020 UY. You buy that same contract in two weeks once we get to April and you won’t get 2020 points.

It is a sales tactic but if a new buyer times it right, it does feel like getting free points.

Yes technically true - but best way I saw to describe it and compare to a "loaded" resale contract. While yes not owner in 2020 and depending on your UY month you are getting "free" points that you didn't have to pay MFs on and they have value unless you don't use/rent them.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes technically true - but best way I saw to describe it and compare to a "loaded" resale contract. While yes not owner in 2020 and depending on your UY month you are getting "free" points that you didn't have to pay MFs on and they have value unless you don't use/rent them.

Except in resale, many brokers will push for reimbursement for fees if getting full current UY points. For example if I was buying a Dec contract right now with full 2020 and 2021 points, I would be pushed to pay full 2021 dues, even though we are 4 months into the year,

For direct, I’d only pay 8 months for getting the same points. Now, it is negotiable buying resale and I always have.

But, the reason DVD can not charge you fees prior to being in owner is because they are for the operation of the resort and you can’t be charged for a property for days when you did not yet own.

 

[Anthony Vito]

Except in resale, many brokers will push for reimbursement for fees if getting full current UY points. For example if I was buying a Dec contract right now with full 2020 and 2021 points, I would be pushed to pay full 2021 dues, even though we are 4 months into the year,

For direct, I’d only pay 8 months for getting the same points. Now, it is negotiable buying resale and I always have.

But, the reason DVD can not charge you fees prior to being in owner is because they are for the operation of the resort and you can’t be charged for a property for days when you did not yet own.

See, this and the entire thread about a lot of the broker sites being difficult to deal with for the buyers are actually examples I'd put in the "why would anyone buy direct" thread. If the broker who's supposed to be neutral since they're representing both sides of the transaction is pushing me towards things that are really for the seller, I'd have trust issues and feel generally uncomfortable with the transaction. Not saying this alone would prevent me from buying resale (still talk about getting more CCV points once we pay off at least one of our direct contracts), but it certainly - for me - weighs towards direct. Now we've also only bought direct at current resorts, which I personally think represent good value if they are resorts at which you want to own. For us, they were. So our comparisons in price were not between sold out resort direct prices and resale, but essentially between direct current resort prices and older resort resale prices, which, while not an apples-to-apples comparison, definitely something that changes the value comparison (especially if doing a price per point per year of contract analysis).

But I digress . . . if I am purchasing a resale contract with banked points like that, I think I would balk at the suggestion that I pay the prior year's dues. As you said, you're not getting them for a full year. I understand the sentiment that the owner paid those dues but didn't use the points, but my position would be that this is built into the overall price of the contract. I'm assuming right at the outset that I'm paying more for that contract in price per point than I would have if it had been stripped of points. Obviously there is variance among contracts, but at least in theory it seems like a loaded contract is going to be listed for a higher price than if it was stripped. Moreover, when looking at any particular contract, that's going to be a factor for me in evaluating that contract.

 

[Eastcoast02]

I usually just make a mess of all my points and try to operate on a borrowing is better mentality, if more points are needed at all. Room type preferences change and we sleep around a lot. Sorry AKV! And of course Disney themselves can ruin the best of plans with their changing of seasons or point reallocations.

 

[sethschroeder]

Gotcha thanks, definitely a big jump in incentives for that range of points, we have been looking more in the 125 range so that is good to know.

ALWAYS do the math on going up in incentives.

The reason I say this is that going up in tiers you might find points are low enough to justify either keep or just then selling them off.

Just looking quickly right now for add-ons its:
$3,938.75 extra to add on 25 points from 125 to 150
$157.55/point

In this case likely not enough to make you want to up your points but it just really depends on current incentives and counts you would like.

Just as an example back last summer you could go from 100 to 150 points for $130/point.

If you are going to be selling your contract there are ways to lower the cost even further and not even have to hold the contract to get those points used.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

So in my scenario, I need 160 (161 but let's use 160 for math) per 'visit' which means I will bank 40 every year. I can do that 4X before I have a surplus of 200, correct?

Year 1 = Use 160 | Bank 40
Year 2 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (80 total)
Year 3 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (120 total)
Year 4 = Use 160 | Bank 40 (160 total)
Year 5 = Not 100% sure here. I've been using 160 of my 200 while swapping out the bank and replenishing the bank w/ the left over 40 but it is building up

Perhaps a little off the topic of Riviera incentives but, as others have said, you can only bank points for one year and then they must be used or they expire. So, your point totals are essentially correct but a more accurate way to express the transactions would be:

Year 1 = Use 160 | Bank 40
Year 2 = Use 40 previously banked points and 120 current UY points (160 total) | Bank 80
Year 3 = Use 80 previously banked points and 80 current UY points (160 total) | Bank 120
Year 4 = Use 120 previously banked points and 40 current UY points (160 total) | Bank 160
Year 5 = Use 160 previously banked points and 0 current UY points (160 total) | Bank 200
Year 6 = If you haven't already, you'll need to use more than 160 points to avoid losing some of your banked points. Even if you spend 200 points in year 6 (that would use all 200 banked points), then you would need to bank all 200 current UY points, and you'll be in the same position every year from this point forward unless you use (or rent) the excess points.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Year 6 = If you haven't already, you'll need to use more than 160 points to avoid losing some of your banked points. Even if you spend 200 points in year 6 (that would use all 200 banked points), then you would need to bank all 200 current UY points, and you'll be in the same position every year from this point forward unless you use (or rent) the excess points.

Renting the excess points is another good option, you could get at least $16 pp, depending on how you rent them (and it will probably be more 6 years from now). So, even more options. Indeed, 200 pts gives you flexibility to upgrade, stay longer, go more frequently, or make some money down the line.

BTW, so many folks on these boards say they wished they had gotten more points from the start. And having more points protects you from shifting point charts in case the time you like to go gets higher in point costs.

 

[MomOTwins]

Sooooo... on the original topic, does anyone think that the incentives will go down again on May 12? Trying to figure out if we need to purchase before then or not, assuming we do end up going with Riviera direct (we are still on the fence between that an Poly resale).

Of course I'm already kicking myself on missing out on the incentive that just ended, but hindsight is 20/20.

Any chance incentives would go up later in the year?

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

Tough to say what will happen with incentives. Prices could go up if things start returning to normal.

 

[nangosix]

Sooooo... on the original topic, does anyone think that the incentives will go down again on May 12? Trying to figure out if we need to purchase before then or not, assuming we do end up going with Riviera direct (we are still on the fence between that an Poly resale).

Of course I'm already kicking myself on missing out on the incentive that just ended, but hindsight is 20/20.

Any chance incentives would go up later in the year?

this is literally the same discussion we are having. The option is to start a contract before the May 12th incentive change and then keep or cancel based off the incentive changes.

 

[Sandisw]

Sooooo... on the original topic, does anyone think that the incentives will go down again on May 12? Trying to figure out if we need to purchase before then or not, assuming we do end up going with Riviera direct (we are still on the fence between that an Poly resale).

Of course I'm already kicking myself on missing out on the incentive that just ended, but hindsight is 20/20.

Any chance incentives would go up later in the year?

Honestly, I don’t think we will see it better. The only thing is that as we get closer, if you decide to buy, then do it close to the deadline so if they are better, you get it, but if not, you are locked in.

 

[TinkB278]

Is there a post somewhere with current prices at the current incentives? When I look at the member add on the prices listed per point are much higher than in the OP.