Current DVC offers? 0% financing or free cruise offers?

[Deb & Bill]

Just wondering how many points do you have to buy for seven day cruise anyone doing this or that has done this.

It's a pretty expensive way to cruise.

 

[moneyhappy]

If you are looking at per point price resale is better. If you are looking to finance then it depends. Timeshare loans for resale are around 13% - 14% versus DVC 10%. You could get a second mortgage on your house (lower interest rate), but why mortgage your house. Both the DVC loan and second mortgage have tax right offs (interest on the loans). DVC loans do not go on your credit report unless you are delinquent. This means it does not effect your credit score, etc.

 

[htmlkid]

Ya know... I've heard the arguments since the changes were made a few months ago (on resale points) and over time about cruises on points being a bad value anyway.

I'm still not convinced that it is necessarily true that cruise and RCI (or II when and if it comes back) tradeouts are really as bad of a value as people say they are.

I have to look at this thing over the length of the deed which brings up some interesting possibilities when calculating the time value of money.

It's all a matter of what risk is worth the reward potential over the long haul. Nobody knows what other penalties may be imposed on resale purchases over time. Granted, we don't know what could happen to direct-buy points either, but the changes are likely to be less penalizing over time on points bought directly from DVD.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Let's suppose you can buy twice as many points resale today for the same amount of money. Let's jump 10 years down the road and just suppose that you and your family want to take a cruise or go to the Rockies for a change in vacation venue. Suppose you tired of Disney last year because of family and time obligations and just banked all your points. In that situation, there's a good likelihood that I might just happen to have more points laying around than I might have disposable income to take a cruise. Sure would be nice to use those points, but I bought them resale and I can't use them for what I want.

Sure, there are no guarantees that I could use those points for a cruise 10 years from now either, but the likelihood that I could is much higher. what if this happened 7-8 times over the duration of the contract? Suddenly, the initial outlay, given the time value of money and assuming inflation continues at some rate, doesn't seem to matter quite as much.

There's always more than one angle. That's all I'm saying. In the interest of full disclosure, I bought all of my points direct. The first ones I didn't really know any better but I've had ample opportunity to do something different in my purchases that followed. Resale market prices have been in a somewhat steady decline, especially of late, much more so than when I had added on, and I admit it's tempting now, but the only reason I would buy resale even now is that I have points under my belt that are universally good for anything. If I bought resale now, I would buy them going in assuming they were only good at the resort I bought them for. Any other value or use they might have would just be gravy.

The pencil pushers will come along and tear my argument all to pieces. I already know that. I also know that buying any timeshare and especially DVC (re: buying into DISNEY for ~50 years) is an emotional and a somewhat risky purchase anyway.

They make a base Camaro for 16k. Fully loaded, it's upwards of 37k. That's a pretty big spread. Wonder which one most people buy? Why?

The easy way to figure out if cruising is worth it is look at the points it would cost vs the cash price. I can tell you that I've taken 5 disney cruises and for a family of three its always cheaper paying cash. As for cost, I was going to buy BLT 160 points at $120 for $18K... inetead I purchased 250 Saratoga Spriings points for $13K. Thats 90 more points for $5K less!!!!!

Read the threads on RCI.... the conclusion is always the same... you should only buy Disney Points to use at Disney Resorts.

 

[tjkraz]

Read the threads on RCI.... the conclusion is always the same... you should only buy Disney Points to use at Disney Resorts.

The basis of that argument tends to be that you can buy cheaper timeshares than DVC and have equal trading power within RCI and/or access to a greater variety of native destinations. While that is quite correct, it doesn't help people who may want to visit a non-DVC destination rather infrequently--say every 5 years.

The point costs for trading through RCI are pretty good--comparable to staying at the DVC resorts themselves. As long as the buyer has a good understanding of the pitfalls of trading AND doesn't plan frequent trades, I see nothing wrong with using DVC points for RCI.

 

[addiedisney]

Thanks so much for all the replies!!

Well, I still have a lot to think about. Purchasing resell makes so much sense, but honestly, we really want to be able to cruise. DH's job is good for now, but you never know. What if a few years down the road we just don't have the disposable income to book a cruise, but we do have Disney points. We could bank/borrow and still take our cruise, however if we buy resell this is not going to be an option.

I guess we have to figure out if paying a lot of extra $$ up front is worth the security of knowing we will most likely have the opportunity to use points IF we have to in order to cruise.

 

[Madformickey]

Even if you cant trade your points for a cruise you could always rent them out. May not be quite the same return but it would help with the cost. Not currently a DVC owner but it is one of the ideas ihad for that exact thought.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

The easy way to figure out if cruising is worth it is look at the points it would cost vs the cash price. I can tell you that I've taken 5 disney cruises and for a family of three its always cheaper paying cash. As for cost, I was going to buy BLT 160 points at $120 for $18K... inetead I purchased 250 Saratoga Spriings points for $13K. Thats 90 more points for $5K less!!!!!

Read the threads on RCI.... the conclusion is always the same... you should only buy Disney Points to use at Disney Resorts.

You missed my point.

I didn't say cash wasn't cheaper. I said, points I have. Cash, I may not. Cost is relative to which form of currency you may have at the time, cash and/or points. That's all I was trying to say.

 

[htmlkid]

You missed my point.

I didn't say cash wasn't cheaper. I said, points I have. Cash, I may not. Cost is relative to which form of currency you may have at the time, cash and/or points. That's all I was trying to say.

Even if your trying to use the argument, "Oh I have extra banked points just lying around, why not use them on a cruise". You would still be ahead of the game by renting the points and then paying for the cruise in cash... that way you would probaly be able to pay for the cruise and have some cash left over for shore excursions.

I think the problem here is that points are like poker chips in a casino and people don't pay attention to the cost or value of the points when using them.

 

[starstruck93]

Even if your trying to use the argument, "Oh I have extra banked points just lying around, why not use them on a cruise". You would still be ahead of the game by renting the points and then paying for the cruise in cash... that way you would probaly be able to py for the cruise and have some cash left over for shore excursions.

I think the problem here is that points are like poker chips in a casino and people don't pay attention to the cost or value of the points when using them.

Yes... ITA with all of this! When we purchased DVC we never had any intention on using them for a cruise... but rather renting and them using that money in other ways. You really do have to pay attention to the cost/value of the point and run the numbers. Same goes for staying in any of the actual Disney hotels (not villas)... it works out much better to rent the points and take the money and make a cash reservation... the point conversion is awful on regular rooms. Thanks! April

 

[csharpwv]

They had 7 day cruises if you bought enough points.

We took our 7 night incentive cruise this past December for buying BLT in 2009.

Much to our surprise, the incentive cruise even included gratuities! However, our service team was so awesome that we matched the gratuity amount - which was the full recommended amount - We felt like they deserved it! One of them cried!

We had 4 adults in our stateroom!

It was a 7 nights Eastern Caribbean on the Disney Magic!

And not to make anyone jealous - we bought when the economy was TOTALLY in the tank, so not only did we get the cruise, but we also got a healthy discount on our points as well - I think it was $99 if I remember correctly. If it wasn't that - it wasn't much more than that.

So we got a great deal on a direct purchase. We own two that we bought direct, and two we bought from the secondary market.

 

[htmlkid]

We took our 7 night incentive cruise this past December for buying BLT in 2009.

Much to our surprise, the incentive cruise even included gratuities! However, our service team was so awesome that we matched the gratuity amount - which was the full recommended amount - We felt like they deserved it! One of them cried!

We had 4 adults in our stateroom!

It was a 7 nights Eastern Caribbean on the Disney Magic!

And not to make anyone jealous - we bought when the economy was TOTALLY in the tank, so not only did we get the cruise, but we also got a healthy discount on our points as well - I think it was $99 if I remember correctly. If it wasn't that - it wasn't much more than that.

So we got a great deal on a direct purchase. We own two that we bought direct, and two we bought from the secondary market.

Ok very rarely will I admit that a direct purchase was a deal.... but that was a good deal!!!!!!!

 

[Sandisw]

Even if your trying to use the argument, "Oh I have extra banked points just lying around, why not use them on a cruise". You would still be ahead of the game by renting the points and then paying for the cruise in cash... that way you would probaly be able to pay for the cruise and have some cash left over for shore excursions.

I think the problem here is that points are like poker chips in a casino and people don't pay attention to the cost or value of the points when using them.

But, in order to do that, you have to be willing to go through the time and trouble of renting. IMO, people's time and energy is worth something as well. The risks may not be worth the reward in the end. While it is rare, there have been stories of owners who had issues with renters, accounts frozen, etc. until it was cleared up. I am just not willing to risk it.

Personally, I will never get involved with renting to strangers, regardless of how much it can net me. If I decide I want to cruise one summer instead of visiting WDW, then I am okay with that. I bought DVC to cover my vacations so if it replaces my WDW trip that year, then I am really at no loss since to me, whether I spend 7 nights at WDW or go on a 4 night cruise is the same. It's what I chose to do with my points that year.

We don't plan on cruising that often--if at all--but I would not hesitate to do that if our family decides that is what we want to do one year.

 

[tjkraz]

Even if your trying to use the argument, "Oh I have extra banked points just lying around, why not use them on a cruise". You would still be ahead of the game by renting the points and then paying for the cruise in cash... that way you would probaly be able to pay for the cruise and have some cash left over for shore excursions.

I think the problem here is that points are like poker chips in a casino and people don't pay attention to the cost or value of the points when using them.

I agree with Sandisw--you have to make some accommodation for the time, energy and risk involved in renting the points.

I doubt that most of allow our lives to revolve around the lowest cost alternatives. Whether we're buying consumer goods, a tank of gasoline or a restaurant meal, we all have our limits as to how far we will go to save a buck. Convenience and personal preference get factored into those decisions, too.

I would never recommend that someone buy with the intent of frequently cruising on points but occasional use isn't completely objectionable. We have been owners for 8 years now and paid less than $80 per point for most of ours. Others here paid far less than we did. I would undoubtedly run the numbers and see how booking direct stacks-up to cash. If the numbers were within my personal comfort zone, I'd happily book with points rather than going to the trouble of renting.

 

[htmlkid]

I agree with Sandisw--you have to make some accommodation for the time, energy and risk involved in renting the points.

I doubt that most of allow our lives to revolve around the lowest cost alternatives. Whether we're buying consumer goods, a tank of gasoline or a restaurant meal, we all have our limits as to how far we will go to save a buck. Convenience and personal preference get factored into those decisions, too.

I would never recommend that someone buy with the intent of frequently cruising on points but occasional use isn't completely objectionable. We have been owners for 8 years now and paid less than $80 per point for most of ours. Others here paid far less than we did. I would undoubtedly run the numbers and see how booking direct stacks-up to cash. If the numbers were within my personal comfort zone, I'd happily book with points rather than going to the trouble of renting.

I have to disagree but will admit first its a personal decision to rent or not. But to put it into prespective, post an email (60 seconds) to rent 100 points at $10 a point. Answer a few emails, (10 more min). Call Disney to find availability and eventually book reservations (lets give 60 more min). Lastly collect money (10min). Thats 81min giving you a return of $1000.. less and average of $5 maintiance fees paid on those points equates to a profit of $500 or $6.10 a min or $366 an hour for your time.... Not a bad return in my opnion!!!!!!

 

[CMOORE185]

I have to disagree but will admit first its a personal decision to rent or not. But to put it into prespective, post an email (60 seconds) to rent 100 points at $10 a point. Answer a few emails, (10 more min). Call Disney to find availability and eventually book reservations (lets give 60 more min). Lastly collect money (10min). Thats 81min giving you a return of $1000.. less and average of $5 maintiance fees paid on those points equates to a profit of $500 or $6.10 a min or $366 an hour for your time.... Not a bad return in my opnion!!!!!!

Still too much work for me. I would rather use my points outside of DVC occasionally than to rent them. If I was using them too much outside of DVC I would say I have too many points and sell them. I see too many possible pitfalls in renting, so I am not interested.

 

[tjkraz]

I have to disagree but will admit first its a personal decision to rent or not. But to put it into prespective, post an email (60 seconds) to rent 100 points at $10 a point. Answer a few emails, (10 more min). Call Disney to find availability and eventually book reservations (lets give 60 more min). Lastly collect money (10min). Thats 81min giving you a return of $1000.. less and average of $5 maintiance fees paid on those points equates to a profit of $500 or $6.10 a min or $366 an hour for your time.... Not a bad return in my opnion!!!!!!

Ah if only it were so simple. Most rentals don't start and end with an email from someone who is prepared to transfer money for exactly 100 points to book a villa that is readily available.

What you're more likely to encounter are a lot of lookie-loos who send you on a wild goose chase. People trying to get BWV Standard View or AKV Concierge on 3 months notice. People who ask you to check availability for a dozen different date and resort combinations. People who back out at the last minute because they found someone else willing to rent for $9.50. People who want to rent 60 of the 100 points you're offering. People who call you 7 months out to try and switch resorts...6 months out to book DME...5 months out to add the Dining Plan...4 months out to remove the Dining plan...3 months out just to make sure everything is still OK...

Don't forget to factor in taxes because you're surely going to claim the rental proceeds as income, right? You may also incur PayPal fees if payment is sent in that manner.

Some people visit a half-dozen Ford dealerships to negotiate the best deal while others go to the closest. Some people drive 5 miles out of their way to save $.10 on a gallon of gas. Some DVC members would never think of splurging on a Savanna, BoardWalk or Magic Kingdom view when cheaper rooms are available. And some people don't mind the hassle of renting DVC points. It's certainly a personal preference thing.

But IMO you are kidding yourself if you think the typical time investment for renting 100 points is under an hour-and-a-half.

 

[Mick@Tink]

Ah if only it were so simple. Most rentals don't start and end with an email from someone who is prepared to transfer money for exactly 100 points to book a villa that is readily available.

What you're more likely to encounter are a lot of lookie-loos who send you on a wild goose chase. People trying to get BWV Standard View or AKV Concierge on 3 months notice. People who ask you to check availability for a dozen different date and resort combinations. People who back out at the last minute because they found someone else willing to rent for $9.50. People who want to rent 60 of the 100 points you're offering. People who call you 7 months out to try and switch resorts...6 months out to book DME...5 months out to add the Dining Plan...4 months out to remove the Dining plan...3 months out just to make sure everything is still OK...

Don't forget to factor in taxes because you're surely going to claim the rental proceeds as income, right? You may also incur PayPal fees if payment is sent in that manner.

Some people visit a half-dozen Ford dealerships to negotiate the best deal while others go to the closest. Some people drive 5 miles out of their way to save $.10 on a gallon of gas. Some DVC members would never think of splurging on a Savanna, BoardWalk or Magic Kingdom view when cheaper rooms are available. And some people don't mind the hassle of renting DVC points. It's certainly a personal preference thing.

But IMO you are kidding yourself if you think the typical time investment for renting 100 points is under an hour-and-a-half.

You're a wise man, Tim. Couldn't have said it any better!

 

[starry_solo]

LOL. I admit, I have rented from four different owners since last year. One for a vacation that has already occurred; three that will occur in 2012. There were LOTS of emails/pm's back and forth to get the details set out, prices worked out, paypal fee, etc. The only thing left is telling two of the owners when my flights are for Magical Express.

I will admit, it was a headache (not, I wasn't the cause of it) but DVC was taking forever to send each of the owner's their email confirmations, only to find out that on two of the reservations, one name was spelled incorrectly and on the third reservation, all three names were spelled incorrectly! EEK!

I already looked into the dining plan - nope, not for us. I will be making reservations for ADRs at a few places at 180 days + 10, but one of them, I have to wait a couple of days to make because that is outside the 180+10 window (we are there for 14 nights).

But everyone was paid their deposit (well, one was the entire amount of $410). I checked everyone out on the OC comptroller and through disboards (they have been around) and the other *********** (it was her first time rental). I am not expecting any problems but that's what PayPal and credit cards are for ;-)

But, if it were me (renting my own points, if I owned DVC), I don't know if I would do that on my own. Too much work - heck it was too much work trying to find owners with points at each of the resorts we wanted (AKL, BCV, and BLT) and after I had already made plans with AKL and BCV owners, I found an owner that had points at all three! But, I didn't back out of the other two deals I made with the other owners. I would have felt bad having them check all that info for me only to back out (plus the BCV one already made the reservation in her name just so it wouldn't disappear!)