CRT, Pre-Pay, and no DDE!

[bwv4me]

Thought you all might want to know . . .
Now CRT makes you prepay. It is a ridiculous price because you are getting a "photo package" that you can't refuse. The prices for lunch are $33.99 for adults and $22.99 for children. I believe that breakfast is only a dollar or so cheaper. Imagine . . . $30 soggy scrambled eggs!

To add insult to injury, after January 31, 2006, they will no longer accept the DDE card for the current 20% discount! This means if you have a trip booked after this date, you cannot get the discount even though you have to prepay. Pixie dust just went down the toilet!
__________

 

[bicker]

Yup, this has been discussed a bit here since it was first announced a couple of weeks back. It is a very clear reflection of just how much demand there is for special dining experiences at Cinderella's Castle. The bright side of it is, of course, that it will (hopefully) no longer be necessary to have the "fastest fingers" to get a reservation -- (hopefully) there will always be reservations available for that special experience up until the actual day-of.

 

[bwv4me]

Why, do you suppose, did they eliminate the use of the DDE card? Pure greed?

 

[bicker]

Greed is irrelevant when you're dealing with a corporation. The directors of the corporation are required by law to ensure the company is operating in a manner that maximizes long-term shareholder value, to the exclusive of all other concerns except following the law.

Rather, I would guess that they're eliminating use of the DDE because they expect that the Cinderella Castle meals will be mostly full even without accepting it. A restaurant participates in DDE when it expects that doing so will fill in tables that would have otherwise gone empty.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Hard to believe that I actually agree with bicker...But I do.

This is a result of everybody wanting everything their way all of the time, IMO. These pacakages became so popular that they (Disney) now gets to name their price for the magic. Some people may find this less magical or distateful but I find the new dining plans that lure folks to the the high end restaurants (only because it's already prepaid) distasteful. Not to mention the hordes that are willing to book 60-90 even 120 days out to get something. I find that ridiculous. Or the fact that Disney is willing to change their unique dining experiences to meet the tastes of average America, as they did at 'Ohana. I really hate that. So the fact that Disney is going to maximize its profit potential with this one should surprise no one. Disney doesn't care what segment is unhappy with their policy changes only that the larger segment is at least OK with it. We always get what we deserve and the only way changes to this policy will revert is if people speak with their wallets. This won't happen.

 

[bicker]

This won't happen.

That's really key. While individual people may be unhappy with the way things are heading, that's true of everything in society -- society is driven by what the vast majority of people want, not the interests of minorities with higher-than-average "taste". Minorities like that are served, by niche suppliers, but at a higher price than if their preference was underwritten by the general public, and of course, the volume and variety of choices available to serve niche tastes will be more limited than that available to serve the general public.

The reality is that Disney wouldn't be able to charge what it does, for what it offers, unless a very substantial number of people preferred it that way, and expressed their preference with how they spend their money, the language of business. Railing against the supplier satisfying the available market is pretty useless. The only way of changing what business offers is to change what the customers want.
For example, our local liquor store has free, weekly wine tastings, available to the general public. Why? To try to elevate the level of discrimination of the general public -- to try to make more people want to and be willing to pay the premium for higher-end offerings. It doesn't make sense to begrudge the liquor store the three aisles of cheap beer and wine it offers, even though that limits the higher-end stuff to a small back corner. They're just serving their customers. If you really want a bigger selection (and better prices) for the finer things, you need to get more people to be willing to reward the store for offering that. In other words, hope that their wine tastings work.

 

[bwv4me]

Greed is irrelevant when you're dealing with a corporation. The directors of the corporation are required by law to ensure the company is operating in a manner that maximizes long-term shareholder value, to the exclusive of all other concerns except following the law.

Rather, I would guess that they're eliminating use of the DDE because they expect that the Cinderella Castle meals will be mostly full even without accepting it. A restaurant participates in DDE when it expects that doing so will fill in tables that would have otherwise gone empty.

I realize that greed is irrelevant when dealing with a corporation. I was just being mean-spirited. I'm wondering why restaurants like Le Cellier (whicdh can be hard to get into) accept the DDE card. Most of the popular restaurants do. I don't think we ate at any during our last trip that didn't take it, except for one. And I'm just pissed that they make you prepay now along with no DDE!

 

[bicker]

I was just being mean-spirited.

Refreshing honesty!

I'm wondering why restaurants like Le Cellier (whicdh can be hard to get into) accept the DDE card.

I'm not sure, but I would guess that some of these decisions are made at the district level, rather than at the individual restaurant level. Remember that Epcot has a large number of Disney-operated, top-tier, full-service restaurants, and so they may be operated as a unit, to a much greater extent than at the other theme parks, where there are only two or three top-tier full-service restaurants.

Beyond that, I think it is pretty clear that CRT is wildly different than Le Cellier. Le Cellier is hard to get a reservation at because it is so small. CRT has been hard to get a reservation at because it is in such high demand. However, my guess is that since "hard to get a reservation at" is the same in effect, regardless of the cause, that that's not why one accepts DDE and the other does not. I'd put my money on the "higher power" explanation -- that someone at the Epcot dining level decided all Disney-operated, top-tier, full-service restaurants at Epcot will accept DDE (with minor exception, apparently, since the Japanese restaurant doesn't participate).

 

[salmoneous]

Not to hijack things too much, but it's worth pointing out that corporations operate in the interests of their shareholders, which is not exactly the same thing as being required by law to focus solely on long term value. Just as individuals can choose to run personal businesses in a manner that gives up some profit in order to be a good citizen or treat workers well, corporations can decide their shareholders want them to run the company in that manner. And while such actions can often be justified as actually increasing long term value, such justifications aren't necessary.

That said, profits are good and given the extrodinary popularity of the event, how can they not raise prices?

 

[bicker]

Yes, very true, salmoneous. There are some corporations for which the objective is not shareholder value, but rather some other objective, typically one in the public interest. Typically, these entities are not-for-profit corporations. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting is one example. However, a very small number of for-profit enterprises have additional objectives in addition to shareholder value. Ben & Jerry's comes to mind.

Again, there are only a very small number of for-profit corporations that have such additional objectives. The vast majority have a single concrete objective, that being the maximization of long-term shareholder value. And good thing too -- I cannot imagine how many of us will be able to afford to live in retirement without the money we make from the companies represented by our mutual fund and stock holdings.

 

[thelionqueen]

is it true that it now takes 2 Dining Plan credits per person for CRT? We went in October, and honestly, it wasn't even worth the 1 credit we paid. Guess someone else can go, we won't. Just my .02

 

[bwv4me]

is it true that it now takes 2 Dining Plan credits per person for CRT? We went in October, and honestly, it wasn't even worth the 1 credit we paid. Guess someone else can go, we won't. Just my .02

Yes. I was told by the CM when making ressies (which I will probably cancel and do another character meal instead) that it would require 2 credits on the Dining Plan.

 

[cigar95]

Beyond that, I think it is pretty clear that CRT is wildly different than Le Cellier. Le Cellier is hard to get a reservation at because it is so small. CRT has been hard to get a reservation at because it is in such high demand.

Brian, it may be that the main difference between the two is that WDW is now (properly) categorizing CRT as an "event", rather than simply a "meal". That's why the OPs comment about "$30 soggy scrambled eggs" was a straw man - the popularity isn't the food, but the experience.

I think I'd have to disagree, though, Brian, with your categorizing Le Cellier as "so small", since I think it's actually quite a bit larger than CRT. Maybe you mean small in relation to most of the other Epcot restaurants, which I think is true. More than anything else, my impression is that Le Cellier is hard to get largely because it's just an excellent restaurant - you know you're going to get great food there.

 

[bicker]

Brian, it may be that the main difference between the two is that WDW is now (properly) categorizing CRT as an "event", rather than simply a "meal".

That was my original thinking, but I quickly checked, and DDE is honored at HDD, so that doesn't seem to be the discriminating factor.

I think I'd have to disagree, though, Brian, with your categorizing Le Cellier as "so small", since I think it's actually quite a bit larger than CRT.

Really? I'd love to see the actual numbers. Seemed to me like it had about half as many tables. Does anyone know the actuals?

Maybe you mean small in relation to most of the other Epcot restaurants, which I think is true.

No; while true, that wouldn't really support my point, since Le Cellier has so many competitors, while CRT has so few.

More than anything else, my impression is that Le Cellier is hard to get largely because it's just an excellent restaurant - you know you're going to get great food there.

That would argue for the same problem at Chefs de France, but it just isn't the case.

What are we missing?

 

[bwv4me]

Brian, it may be that the main difference between the two is that WDW is now (properly) categorizing CRT as an "event", rather than simply a "meal". That's why the OPs comment about "$30 soggy scrambled eggs" was a straw man - the popularity isn't the food, but the experience.

What is a "straw man"?

Never mind, I looked it up. I don't know if what I said is an example of that or not. I was exaggerating with the soggy eggs but still, event or not, I think that more than $30 for breakfast food is outrageous. Chef Mickey's, Crystal Palace, and Storybook Princess Breakfasts are just as much of events as CRT. I have been to them all. I posted simply to let others know of the "new"ish procedures and illustrated my dislike of the changes. Will it prevent me from going - that remains to be seen. Do I think it is a rip off? Yes! Will I go despite that? Maybe.

 

[cigar95]

I was exaggerating with the soggy eggs but still, event or not, I think that more than $30 for breakfast food is outrageous.

Ah, but almost no one goes to CRT because they want to have breakfast - they go because it's an experience that is available literally almost nowhere else in the entire world (not just the "World"), and which a number of parents and young (or not-so-young) children really want to do. It isn't the food that you're paying for, but the overall experience - of which the food is perhaps the least remembered.

Chef Mickey's, Crystal Palace, and Storybook Princess Breakfasts are just as much of events as CRT.

Have to disagree - the demand for those breakfasts, while considerable, doesn't begin to compare to the demand for CRT.

Do I think it is a rip off? Yes! Will I go despite that? Maybe.

Whatever else it might be, it's certainly not a "rip off", since the price is known ahead of time, and paying it is strictly voluntary. Each potential patron has to decide for themselves if the price is worth the benefit.

 

[YourMajesty]

After eating there a time or two I'm sure many will not want to pay that much to continue including a CRT breakfast every trip. Maybe they were trying to come up with a plan to stop the "repeat" castle eaters. It will work for me...I was already making DH and DS's eat there with the queen.
There will always be plently of first timers to keep the place full. Eventually I wouldn't be suprised for them to have a set price at every table service restaurant(putting a stop to splitting/sharing etc). Something similar to the tier stuff or whatever they can figure out to help them make a few more $$$. Most (but not everyone) has a stopping point for what they will spend...

 

[bicker]

Maybe they were trying to come up with a plan to stop the "repeat" castle eaters.

Without a doubt, that's almost surely not the objective. Rather, I'd bet the objective is structuring the offering so that people can still get reservations for it the day before. The fastest way to sub-optimize your operations is to tell customers willing to pay you good money to go away.

 

[Luv2Roam]

No news here.
That is why I have ADRs for one last meal there in January.
Cross two off my list -- Akershus and CRT.

 

[maxiesmom]

I'm sure I am not alone in this--I pay the $$$ for a character meal and end up not eating. I'm too busy taking pictures! Call me crazy, but I will be paying the $32 for a breakfast that I will probably not eat much of it. I know that in advance, and am still willing to pay the price, which is what it all comes down to. Too many people seem to forget that Disney is big business and as with any business their main objective is to make money. So if the price is too high for you don't go. There will be enough of us left who will gladly take your place.