Crowd Outlook

[Aluminum Falcon]

i feel like with the elimination of the "magical express", its pushing you out.

I think the magical express has been blown out of proportion. was it a great service, yes. Is it a deal breaker for anyone wanting to go to Disney, no way. If someone puts that on their list of reasons for not going to WDW they didn't want to go in the first place haha

 

[gottalovepluto]

When you look at booking a WDW holiday right now. There is no reason to book anything super early. Dining reservations are easy to get, park reservations are easy to get and you won't need them starting Jan 9. You don't need to pre-book fast passes. There is no benefit to booking 6 months ahead and less of a reason to use a travel agent than ever before. You can pretty much book whenever and show up. Nothing is really needed to book ahead.

If you want a Disney hotel on discount you better book early, those who waited until now and aren't APs or FL Residents are outta luck. Other than that, I concur.

 

[gottalovepluto]

Just a 2 cent opinion here, does anyone think that Disneys long term goal is to force all guests to stay in the bubble. They keep talking about limiting the amount of guests in the park, and yet keep adding hotel rooms, seems counter intuitive if they already had enough hotel inventory prior to announcing "limiting" how many are allowed in

Nah, closing Magical Express killed the full bubble concept. Now it's totally optional with barely any benefit to staying on-site. I don't believe keeping people in a bubble is a goal anymore for Disney.

ETA: staying on-site is still a bit of a bubble but disney doesn't have much of a choice, eliminating buses would wreck their ops

 

[gottalovepluto]

i feel like with the elimination of the "magical express", its pushing you out.

That specifically pushed me out to try off-site hotels for sure and I know I wasn't alone in that.

 

[Leigh L]

If you want a Disney hotel on discount you better book early, those who waited until now and aren't APs or FL Residents are outta luck. Other than that, I concur.

Yup, I waited too long. DD and I are going to Universal for a few days and now that more family is joining for the end of the trip, we decided to add in a night or 2 at WDW.

I saw the D+ account discount and even closed out the dupe account we had to get it linked. Waited too long after that and out of luck.

I'm watching Priceline closely for our dates which I think probably align with WDW website (I stopped checking there).
It'll be interesting to see if the crazy high prices drop over the next six weeks. If not, we'll drive back to Universal for the one night and keep that reservation instead of shaving a day off from our Sapphire Falls reservation (which was a fantastic military rate and way cheaper than Disney's value resorts for the time period -in fact, it's even cheaper than a value would have been with the 35% off!)

On another note, WDW emailed me a survey and said if selected, I'd participate in a panel. There was a question about returning to WDW in the future and I put "probably" and not "definitely". They asked for more detail, I did mention high hotel prices, the loss of the Magical Express, and the closure of the walking path between Shades of Green and Polynesian.

 

[Jrb1979]

Lately Halloween seems to the busiest time of year for a lot of parks. While the parks may be busy, it sounds like guests that are going are opting for off site more often. Which coincides with the discounts out there.

From what's being said from Dreams Unlimited and others, Christmas and into spring isn't looking as good as now.

@clarker99 I do remember Disney saying they want lower attendance to help with guest satisfaction. IMO it's a big mistake if they truly go that route. By doing that they will end up pricing out a majority of families who make up their attendance right now. By pricing for those who can afford your product but have no interest in it will be a big failure. The people like those in Burbank look down on parks.

 

[BrianL]

Lately Halloween seems to the busiest time of year for a lot of parks. While the parks may be busy, it sounds like guests that are going are opting for off site more often. Which coincides with the discounts out there.

From what's being said from Dreams Unlimited and others, Christmas and into spring isn't looking as good as now.

@clarker99 I do remember Disney saying they want lower attendance to help with guest satisfaction. IMO it's a big mistake if they truly go that route. By doing that they will end up pricing out a majority of families who make up their attendance right now. By pricing for those who can afford your product but have no interest in it will be a big failure. The people like those in Burbank look down on parks.

It's a balance for sure. The thing is though, it's one thing to want to lower attendance to allow guests to enjoy a less crowded park, however if they also cut cast members, ride capacity, and hours accordingly, then it's not going to really improve the guest experience at all - it'll just be the same thing. It might feel "less crowded" but the wait times for attractions won't reflect that.

 

[Jrb1979]

It's a balance for sure. The thing is though, it's one thing to want to lower attendance to allow guests to enjoy a less crowded park, however if they also cut Cast Members, ride capacity, and hourse accordingly, then it's not going to really improve the guest experience at all - it'll jsut be the same thing. It might feel "less crowded" but the wait times for attractions won't reflect that.

I feel that's partly what's going on right now. IMO people will still go to the parks but will cut out other things to afford it. It's why dining has so much availability and there has been resort availability.

 

[clarker99]

@clarker99 I do remember Disney saying they want lower attendance to help with guest satisfaction. IMO it's a big mistake if they truly go that route. By doing that they will end up pricing out a majority of families who make up their attendance right now. By pricing for those who can afford your product but have no interest in it will be a big failure. The people like those in Burbank look down on parks.

Busier parks just for the sake of busier parks isn't really a model for success either. The number one complaint pre-Covid was that WDW was too busy. And people were right, 2018 and 2019 were insane.

In saying that, it shows in the data that domestic parks profits have levelled off. My opinion is that Disney will (very) slowly take the park capacity limit shackles off and start an effort to fill the parks and hotels to 2018/19 levels. I think it will be a slow roll. I wouldn't be shocked if Magical express came back and other things slowly came back to try and make it look like 2018 again (even if costs are associated). If restaurants are actually slow then they will have to give people a reason to go and eat. More people on resort also helps. They have so many different levers to pull to drive demand but I think it will be done over time.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Double post

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Nah, closing Magical Express killed the full bubble concept. Now it's totally optional with barely any benefit to staying on-site. I don't believe keeping people in a bubble is a goal anymore for Disney.

ETA: staying on-site is still a bit of a bubble but disney doesn't have much of a choice, eliminating buses would wreck their ops

I think that you are undervaluing the transportation on site, I know a lot of people who stay in the bubble for that “perk” alone. I also know a lot of people who thought the only “perk” to magical express was the baggage service, and who would take an Uber and send their bags on the bus. Of course it’s all just my experience and I admit o could be dead wrong

 

[gottalovepluto]

You’re discounting the park transportation big time, that has always been one of the biggest perks to staying in the bubble. The amount of time saved “travelling” is worth it alone to me

I was responding to PP discussing Disney’s value of keeping you in a Bubble- not our personal ideas of value for us. PP asked if Disney could be trying to force people into a bubble. I voted no saying the act of eliminating ME showed that keeping people in a bubble is no longer important to Disney. I added to my case by saying remainder of the bubble Disney has now is due to park transport which they have to have or their operations would fail, since it’s a requirement for Disney it doesn’t count as them actively trying to keep people in a bubble.

 

[Minniemoo15]

We go annually, and still do, as DVC members. What has changed is we now spend more days at the resort than in parks, largely due to cost. Our trips are 10 days… Back in the FP+ days, we would get 8 park day tickets. We may only go to a park for a couple hours, but we went nearly every day for some amount of time and spent money on food, merchandise etc.

Now with the increased ticket price and genie+ cost, we only do 4 park days. We make them full days and buy genie+ etc. But then we spend 6 days at resorts enjoying the pool and other amenities.

 

[Brian Noble]

DVC is has like 93% occupancy rate or something crazy.

Timeshares, by design, are nearly full year-round. Someone owns more or less every week in every room.

he act of eliminating ME showed that keeping people in a bubble is no longer important to Disney

From where I sat, the death knell for ME was the rise of easy (and trusted) ride sharing services. It significantly changed the calculus for how hard it is to get off property without a car.

 

[gottalovepluto]

From where I sat, the death knell for ME was the rise of easy (and trusted) ride sharing services. It significantly changed the calculus for how hard it is to get off property without a car.

Oooohhh! Excellent point. Ride shares and now delivery services dealt big blows to having to stay (and buy) in the bubble. I can't even remember the last time I didn't order some supplies for delivery from an outside source instead of buying at the disney resort store.

 

[tom1944]

That all maybe true. I doubt being down 15% in attendance is what they want either.

Down 15% in attendance and up 15% in revenue is not a problem.

 

[Jrb1979]

Down 15% in attendance and up 15% in revenue is not a problem.

It's not a problem yet. If the forecast stays the way it is it will be a problem. WDW needs guests dining and at the resorts too. From what Dreams Unlimited said that was posted earlier as well as what I have heard from others the holidays til spring is looking very soft for resorts.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Down 15% in attendance and up 15% in revenue is not a problem.

Haha it’s almost like Disney might know what they’re doing

 

[ChipnDale79]

I think the magical express has been blown out of proportion. was it a great service, yes. Is it a deal breaker for anyone wanting to go to Disney, no way. If someone puts that on their list of reasons for not going to WDW they didn't want to go in the first place haha

I don’t think it’s a deal breaker for going, but I think it makes it easier for people to leave the bubble

 

[Moliphino]

I think the magical express has been blown out of proportion. was it a great service, yes. Is it a deal breaker for anyone wanting to go to Disney, no way. If someone puts that on their list of reasons for not going to WDW they didn't want to go in the first place haha

By itself it isn't a deal breaker. Combined with the long list of things that have been eliminated or made more expensive, it is.