Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[DopeyBadger]

Hey coach @DopeyBadger will it work if I push back today’s 6miEB and tomorrow’s long run by a day? I have Saturday and Sunday as rest days, so it’ll just be cutting it down to one rest day instead of 2. My lower back/hips are really unhappy suddenly this morning and I’m headed to the chiropractor in about an hour so that hopefully I can move tomorrow.

Seems doable to me. Are the hips/lower back running related?

 

[Herding_Cats]

I have no idea. I’ve been a little sore in general, but nothing that seems out of the ordinary. I pretty much woke up with stuff out of alignment. Chiro said that one of my legs was an inch off from the other and adjusted a whole bunch of stuff that I don’t get adjusted at “maintenance” appointments. I slept on the couch for a few hours this morning when the baby tried to get up at 4am, so it could have been that.
I feel like the fact that this happened the day after a rest day and hasn’t been a gradual increase of discomfort makes it less likely that running is the cause, but idk.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Still kind twingey/funky today (WAY better than yesterday, but definitely not normal) but I don't want to take 3 days in a row off. Would it be acceptable for me to walk my 6 miles instead? Walk for the 1:20 that the 6 miles was slated to take, and not worry about the mileage?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Still kind twingey/funky today (WAY better than yesterday, but definitely not normal) but I don't want to take 3 days in a row off. Would it be acceptable for me to walk my 6 miles instead? Walk for the 1:20 that the 6 miles was slated to take, and not worry about the mileage?

The first thing I'd say is, do you have reason to believe running the 6 miles will stall the recovery or make things worse? If the answer is yes, then you should pivot. If the answer is no, then you should proceed with running the 6 miles.

If you decide you need to pivot, then the question would be have you had an issue like this before? And if so, how long did it last? Do we think this will be resolved by Saturday for the LR? Do we think this will linger for the next week/month? Could you run Sat/Sun and be ready to do the 6/10 double with a third day off in a row? We could always fix the downstream effects for next week.

You can walk 6 miles or 1:20 hrs, but it's not the same as running 6 miles/1:20 hrs. And will make your LR tomorrow easier than originally intended from a training load standpoint. The equal walking stimulus to the 1:20 LR is about 3-5 hrs of walking. Although I don't recommend doing that either. But just for the purpose of demonstrating the difference between the two. If you walk for 1:20, it's like running for about 20-30 min based on training load data.

You've got 6 weeks remaining until the marathon with two more peak weeks. You're already doing a 2.5 week taper, so you can't push the peak weeks any closer to race day.

So I guess that's my thought process on everything:

1) Decide that it won't get worse or hamper recovery by running, then run.
2) Decide it will hamper, and see if you can instead move it to Sat/Sun.
3) Can't move to Sat/Sun, so then walk for 80 min instead.

If you choose option 2 or 3, then we should consider making changes to the rest of the training plan.

 

[Herding_Cats]

If this baby will take a nap I’ll hop on the treadmill and see how it feels. It’s 86 outside (dp is 66) so running outside isn’t happening.

It doesn’t bother me until I bend forward and then stand back up, and when I do that it’s like having back labor, and my body tries to compensate. I haven’t really had this issue ever before, but what I don’t want it to do is get aggravated and make things worse.

apparently I’m good at injuring myself during peak training time.

 

[Herding_Cats]

scheduled to run 6mi EB plus strides

Sucked it up and did the run after DH got home from work a bit earlier than I was expecting. It was a little iffy for the first mile and I was questioning myself, but I bumped the speed up to around EA and things smoothed out from there. Didn’t do the strides. Hip flexor on the same side that’s bothering my back made it’s presence known at about mile 4.5, so I’m probably still compensating somewhere.

DS1 has a CC meet tomorrow morning (90min away) that they are starting early because it’s supposed to be in the 90s. Which means that the 10 miler will also be on the treadmill because I am NOT going for a run at 330 in the morning. I wonder if any of the LOTR movies are on any of the streaming services we have....one of those should eat up 2.5 hours, right? Or the original Mary Poppins. That movie takes for.ev.er to finish.

 

[Naomeri]

scheduled to run 6mi EB plus strides

Sucked it up and did the run after DH got home from work a bit earlier than I was expecting. It was a little iffy for the first mile and I was questioning myself, but I bumped the speed up to around EA and things smoothed out from there. Didn’t do the strides. Hip flexor on the same side that’s bothering my back made it’s presence known at about mile 4.5, so I’m probably still compensating somewhere.

DS1 has a CC meet tomorrow morning (90min away) that they are starting early because it’s supposed to be in the 90s. Which means that the 10 miler will also be on the treadmill because I am NOT going for a run at 330 in the morning. I wonder if any of the LOTR movies are on any of the streaming services we have....one of those should eat up 2.5 hours, right? Or the original Mary Poppins. That movie takes for.ev.er to finish.

LotR movies (regular and extended) are on HBOMax

 

[Herding_Cats]

It’s 10:32pm. We got up this morning at 5:00 for a XC meet an hour and a half away and a picnic lunch after when it was 95 degrees out. And I just finished my 10mi treadmill run in about 2:14. Holy cow are intervals a game changer for how this run felt.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Ok to finish last nights run journal. Did the first mile continuous running, and then set up my interval timer for 1:45/0:30 for the next 8 miles, and ran the last mile at continuous. Ended up having to stop and restart my watch because it was on autolap and I wanted to keep track of my splits. So I have a 2 mile segment and an 8 mile segment in my garmin/Strava account now. I did change my shoes after 5 miles because the back of my left shoe felt like it was hammering my Achilles, and the heel cup on the 1080s is completely different and the bulk of the discount was gone pretty much immediately. This shoe thing is driving me nuts because just when I think I have it figured out my ankle flares way up, or they feel like they’re choking my feet. And it’s not an inexpensive experiment.

Listened to 2 podcast episodes and then switched to music after mile 7, and that music was like a shot of adrenaline for me. Definitely something to keep in mind for race day.

Splits/pacing:
I ran approximately 14:00 in miles 1 and 2, 13:40 for the miles by 3-6, approximately 12:40 for miles 7 and 8, 13:00 for mile 9 (I made sure I did a 0:30 walk right before I started the last mile), and 11:20 for my “fast finish” marathon-tempo, mile 10 (which I ran too fast .) Basically I ramped up the speed on the run segments 0.1mph every mile or 2, and toward the end I was running my intervals closer to 1:55/0:20 because I felt great. I definitely could have done more if I needed to, but since it was so late I was glad to be done (I’m usually sleeping by 10:00, not in the midst of a long run)


Fueling:
tried a new flavor of tailwind (berry) and put 1.5 packets in 8oz of water. I only managed to drink about 1/3 of it during my run, so I’m hoping it keeps in the fridge until Tuesday. It tasted way better than the raspberry one i tried a month ago, but it was also a much more concentrated mix, so I’ll be trying the raspberry one more time before I cross it off the list.

DS’s meet: he did a great job for his first race. Learned a few things about himself and his teammates and where he might fit in the rankings for the big invitational meets. There are only 12 boys that came out for the team, and right now he’s sitting at about 8th for times. To go to the invitationals, they are only allowed to run their top 7. So he has a bit of work to do if he wants to go to all of the meets and be able to compete. It’s completely doable for him. His biggest hurdle is going to be his brain and believing he CAN run that fast and being willing to suffer a little bit during the races. He races again on Saturday and I think they are using those race results to determine the lineup for the first big invitational in September. for him.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Going to be doing a tiny bit of schedule juggling this week.
Monday: 2mi EA. Ended up running this at like 830pm, which wasn’t my favorite thing, but the miles were uneventful a appropriately paced.

Tuesday was supposed to be a tempo block day. And I just could not bring myself to put all my stuff on and go run in the heat, and the DH unexpectedly had a meeting at 8pm for the basketball team fundraiser golf scramble he is organizing.

That means Tuesday’s run got bumped to today, which is supposed to be a rest day, and Thursday’s scheduled run is supposed to be 5mi of M tempo (plus wu/cd).

Today’s T+D was 150 with 75% humidity. Super fun.
1mi warm up and cool down, 7min each EA, EB, LR, M, HM, and T with 45sec recovery intervals between each one. Adjusted everything for pacing goals before I left.
EA goal was 14:55, Actual was 14:56
EB goal was 13:55, Actual was 13:59
LR goal was 13:30, Actual was 13:18
M goal was 12:25, Actual was 12:33
HM goal was 11:55, Actual was 12:11
T goal was 11:30, Actual was 11:11

recovery intervals ended up all being around 16:20, except for the one between HM and T, which for some reason dropped all the way to almost 24:00. I’m crediting my “too fast” T interval to the fact that the last 90-120 seconds were slightly downhill.

I’m going to try to stick to the days as written for the rest of the week, because I can’t “make up” at day on Saturday. Our school is hosting a huge CC meet and we are volunteering to work it for most of the day (DS1 and 2 will be running in it) and it’s supposed to be hot and humid with a still-high dew point. I’ll probably end up running tomorrow’s workout on the treadmill and using intervals for it, and going super easy on Friday.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Going to be doing a tiny bit of schedule juggling this week.
Monday: 2mi EA. Ended up running this at like 830pm, which wasn’t my favorite thing, but the miles were uneventful a appropriately paced.

Tuesday was supposed to be a tempo block day. And I just could not bring myself to put all my stuff on and go run in the heat, and the DH unexpectedly had a meeting at 8pm for the basketball team fundraiser golf scramble he is organizing.

That means Tuesday’s run got bumped to today, which is supposed to be a rest day, and Thursday’s scheduled run is supposed to be 5mi of M tempo (plus wu/cd).

Today’s T+D was 150 with 75% humidity. Super fun.
1mi warm up and cool down, 7min each EA, EB, LR, M, HM, and T with 45sec recovery intervals between each one. Adjusted everything for pacing goals before I left.
EA goal was 14:55, Actual was 14:56
EB goal was 13:55, Actual was 13:59
LR goal was 13:30, Actual was 13:18
M goal was 12:25, Actual was 12:33
HM goal was 11:55, Actual was 12:11
T goal was 11:30, Actual was 11:11

recovery intervals ended up all being around 16:20, except for the one between HM and T, which for some reason dropped all the way to almost 24:00. I’m crediting my “too fast” T interval to the fact that the last 90-120 seconds were slightly downhill.

I’m going to try to stick to the days as written for the rest of the week, because I can’t “make up” at day on Saturday. Our school is hosting a huge CC meet and we are volunteering to work it for most of the day (DS1 and 2 will be running in it) and it’s supposed to be hot and humid with a still-high dew point. I’ll probably end up running tomorrow’s workout on the treadmill and using intervals for it, and going super easy on Friday.

That's a great Block run! Nice job!

I'd recommend switching Thursday's M Tempo workout and Friday's EA workout. It's better than attempting the Block workout and M Tempo on consecutive days. If you have a time limit on Friday and can't do an 80 min workout, then do EA on Thurs for 45 min, then max allowable time on Friday at LR pace or cut the WU/CD down (this one time only). Doing Block and M Tempo consecutively makes me a tad uneasy.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Roger that coach!
I’d wondered about swapping them, but wasn’t sure if that was the best course since it’s an “only Saturday off” weekend, so I have an hour run on Sunday, and Monday looks to be a killer of a T & R interval workout.

I’m trying really hard to not look at the next weeks workouts at this point in the program because I totally psych myself out about the volume of running.

also soaking up the last week and a half of being able to mostly run whenever I want, before all of the big kids (the babysitters) go back to school

 

[Herding_Cats]

Swapped Thursday and Friday’s runs as advised. Ran the 3mi EA last night at about 8pm. Uneventful.

Today was 1mi warmup, 5 miles marathon tempo, 0.5mi cool down. T+D was about 130 as early rain kept the temperature down for us. The humidity was 91% though, so it’s not like it was particularly refreshing outside. Decided to use intervals for the tempo section so I can start figuring out what it feels like. Adjust M tempo was 12:11. What I ran for a lot of it ended up being more like HM tempo. Oops!
11:09–this section has a lot of downhill so I’m not surprised it was fast.
12:10–probably the flattest part of the run
12:29–this is where I made up all of the downhill from that first mile
11:50–stopped checking my watch and just ran
11:44–knew it was going to be too fast, but it just felt great

these intervals feel so great. Why didn’t I use these sooner? Vo2max is starting to creep up too. I try not to care too much about it, but it does make me happy to see the number increase.

On Thursday DH texted me to make sure I was back and “no running in the dark” while I was stretching my calves in the living room after my run. He must not have heard the door. Usually he wouldn’t be so cautious about this, but the older sister of a boy who was on our baseball team was struck and killed while riding her bike to work early Tuesday morning (it was dark outside). And there have been at least 3 other vehicle/pedestrian accidents in the last week in the 3-county area we live in. Pretty horrible stuff. I don’t think our school system has lost a student in a few years; it used to be a yearly occurrence.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Catching back up here.

Saturday our XC team hosted 67 schools for a meet with about 1400 runners. We worked from 7am-3pm: I worked the ropes for the start and finish chute (aka crowd control ) with 3 other parents and DH worked the finish line (aka catch collapsing kids, try to not get puked on, hand out medals, and get kids out of the finish line area so it didn’t get backed up or end up with collisions from said collapsing kids.)

it was 72 at 8am when the “open” race ran and ds2 ran in 20:45 (6th overall) . It was 80 at 11 when the varsity boys ran and ds1 ran in 22:11 which was not the time he was looking for. Dewpoint was about 75, and humidity was 94% thanks to some very big thunderstorms that finished rolling through at around 4am. Conditions were definitely rough.

Sunday I was supposed to run 4.5mi EB plus strides and it didn’t happen. Lots of reasons, but ultimately if I had tried harder I could have fit the run in. This is going to make my goal of 100mi this month really really really tight. I’m considering doing 2 “extra” miles tonight while the boys are at practice and however many I need to get to 100 tomorrow since tomorrow (Tuesday) is a recovery run-looking day and then Wednesday is off.

monday (today) was 2mi warmup, 20min T, 5 min rest, 4 sets of 150m at R with a 2min recovery, 10min T, 1 mile cool down.

estimated the T+D to be around 135 which put the T intervals at around 11:00 pace and R intervals at around 9:40 pace. I did set my interval timer up in case i decided to use them instead of continuous running for the T pace runs. I took 2 30-sec breaks in the 20min section and 1 in the 10min section when it was all said and done.

20min T pace was 10:53
R intervals were rough. Those were:
9:28
9:55
10:17
10:41
I’m not sure how accurate those were though since I just did them by time (1min each) and attempted to run them just a little harder than I had run the T section. It was also on a dirt road since the temperature jumped by about 5 degrees and was hotter than I had anticipated and I wanted shade (I had one of the kids bring me Gatorade at the end of the R intervals) but the bottom line is that my watch says these were too slow.

10min T interval pace was 10:40 (which is why I’m not convinced of the accuracy of the short R intervals)

did a little extra on the cool down for a total of 7.5 miles today.

I’m at 92.3 miles for the month right now. So if I do 2 miles this evening at EA and 2 “extra” miles tomorrow I should hit 100. I’ll make it happen.

 

[DopeyBadger]

That's a strong T workout. I also don't believe the R pace intervals given your 10:40 (!) 10 min T pace afterwards that included a 30 sec walking break. You were flying. Try to pull back more and not get ahead of yourself too much though. You've got five weeks to go, and you're in a good place right now. Your fitness right now is better than when you started without a doubt. We don't need to be "extra", but just good enough. The upcoming 11 miler with 8 at M Tempo will be a good test. So be sure to make easy days easy this week in prep. Go into this run with a race mindset, which includes making sure you don't overrun the pacing. Because that'll be a trap on race day for sure as well.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Right? I kept trying to slow down in that last T interval after the half way point because i was definitely going too fast but I didn’t want to “make the number right” by just taking a big walk break. My watch said I was closer to 10:50/55pace but the final read out says otherwise.

I’m ok to do the “extra” 3.8 miles though? If I do them super slow? Otherwise I’m going to be really mad at myself for missing those 4.5 on Sunday.

and oh my gosh I’m so excited for the temperatures this week...LOW 70s and MID 50s.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Side note. I’m going to bug my SIL this weekend for an update. I’m not sure how her training is going and last week she said she was hanging on by a thread with everything as far as the new job/selling their house/finding a new house (which they did!)/training, and everything else.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I’m ok to do the “extra” 3.8 miles though? If I do them super slow? Otherwise I’m going to be really mad at myself for missing those 4.5 on Sunday.

It's a risk to do a double today. That's a pro level move even if you did it SUPER slow.

As well, doing 6 miles tomorrow (around 80-90 min) will not be seen as a recovery day given your other recent training volume. That's a moderate day. And would be seen as another pro level move.

So you have to balance your desire for 100 miles this month, with the risk that you injure yourself with five weeks to go before your marathon. If it were me, the marathon matters more than an arbitrary month milestone. But we all have different priorities and ranking systems. So it's up to you.

Side note. I’m going to bug my SIL this weekend for an update. I’m not sure how her training is going and last week she said she was hanging on by a thread with everything as far as the new job/selling their house/finding a new house (which they did!)/training, and everything else.

Sometimes life throws those curveballs at us. If she's hanging on by a thread and having to miss any days, then tell her that doing almost all easy and reducing the LRs is ok. She can survive still. It's if she's maintaining the LR distance, doing the hard stuff, and cutting out the easy days that'll come back and bite her. It's counterintuitive, I know.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Playing catch up again, but just a little.

I think I’m reaching that point where I “don’t wanna” any more. The nearness of race day is the only thing keeping me on schedule. I’ve felt like this for about a week now. It could just be an off week, or it could be that I’ve been on a training plan since March (minus the week-ish off after my half in the first week of June.) Or maybe these are peak week feelings? Idk.

Thursday: 6mi EB plus strides. Kept the pace around 13:30 until the strides and then the pace for the last 2 miles ended up around 12:30/12:40.
Then I worked football concessions from 2:10-9:00 for the cross country team (boosters provides 1 or 2 people to do the grilling and help us get set up, etc., and then different sports are responsible for running stuff and get a cut of the money at the end of the season.) I was supposed to leave at six but they were short handed and it was the coach’s birthday so a few of us stuck around and told him and his wife (the girls team coach) to get out of there. So tired legs were definitely a thing. And then a little girl flipped and flopped in my bed for 5 hours during the night.

Today (Friday): 2mi warm up, 8 miles M pace(12:00mm, adjusted) 1mi cool down. Planned for (and did) continuous running for WU/CD and 1:45/0:30 run/walk intervals for the marathon pace miles. T+D around 120
mile 1: 14:01
Mile 2: 13:46
Mile 3: 11:48
Mile 4: 12:32
Mile 5: 12:26
Mile 6: 11:52
Stopped at the house for a bathroom break
Mile 7: 11:57
Mile 8: 11:48
Decided to try to slow down to 12:30 pace for the last 2 miles because I felt like I was going to end up “too fast” for too many miles.
Mile 9: 12:22
Mile 10: 12:17
Mile 11: 13:46

I did have to pause and stretch my calf/ankle just before mile 11 because it was starting to spasm and was making my entire ankle feel loose and sloppy, and that seemed to take care of the issue. I definitely could have done more but was very glad to be done. I did NOT feel like death warmed over like I did a month ago during my 13.1mi run, and my average pace was 30 seconds faster. Tried mandarin tailwind (1 packet in 8oz of water) and it’s not awful.

very much looking forward to 2 days off.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I did NOT feel like death warmed over like I did a month ago during my 13.1mi run, and my average pace was 30 seconds faster.