Covid And The Rest of Us

[BadPinkTink]

But do people in Canada and other areas a want to wear them everywhere they go year round for ever? At some point more and more will get frustrated with all. And Europe isn’t immune to it they have had issues with masks too. I’m over comparing to Asia since even Asia didn’t have mandates for the most part except during a pandemic .

"Europe" is not an entity. I'm talking about my country, Ireland. Yes we have a small anti mask group, but on the whole there has been a majority buy in to lockdowns, restrictions and the wearing of masks. We have a national mask mandates which people comply with. We have Police check points to limit travel. Our Police and local authorities on a national level enforce whatever restrictions are implemented by our Government.

Its not that we "want" to wear masks, its that as a society Irish people in general follow the advice from the Government and CMO. We do things for the good of others, and don't have the same individualist attitude that American society in general has.

 

[Jrb1979]

But do people in Canada and other areas a want to wear them everywhere they go year round for ever? At some point more and more will get frustrated with all. And Europe isn’t immune to it they have had issues with masks too. I’m over comparing to Asia since even Asia didn’t have mandates for the most part except during a pandemic .

Its not going to be forever. Now that Vaccine is out by the end of the year I can see mask restrictions being lessened.

 

[Karin1984]

But do people in Canada and other areas a want to wear them everywhere they go year round for ever? At some point more and more will get frustrated with all. And Europe isn’t immune to it they have had issues with masks too. I’m over comparing to Asia since even Asia didn’t have mandates for the most part except during a pandemic .

In my country (NL) the biggest protest had 300 people. You need to have permission to protest, otherwise you get arrested.
Mask compliance is okay, the only numbers I have that in public transport 10% doesn't wear it. When I go into a store, the majority is wearing them. I think also about 90%.

In Asia a mandate wasn't necessary because it's already in their culture to wear masks when sick (generalizing).

 

[NFLDERS]

Where we are.. this was reported in our small town paper for today.



For non Canadians/Ontarians '^GTA' is the Greater Toronto Area.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Eh. It's not even as big a deal in America as the media and a some vocal outliers would have you believe. I know of one business in our fairly sizable metro area where it's an issue. Everywhere else, I see masks all the time. It's rare for me to see someone without one. People are mostly just getting on with it.

I do agree with this. One difference I've noted is it was more or less adopted in usage without too too much ruckus elsewhere whereas here it was much more complicated and took more time. That itself will give a stark comparison.

And from others perspective the fact that mask mandates have been localized in their adoption probably seems quite strange but it's just more or less a different system we have here (meaning cities, counties, states vs entire country or at least an entire state/province).

If you read stories you'll likely never get the full story but to that point I'm sure posters here probably give quite the impression too. It simply is a lot more complicated for us here; that's a neutral statement just stating the honest truth.

 

[ronandannette]

But do people in Canada and other areas a want to wear them everywhere they go year round for ever? At some point more and more will get frustrated with all. And Europe isn’t immune to it they have had issues with masks too. I’m over comparing to Asia since even Asia didn’t have mandates for the most part except during a pandemic .

No, no way, absolutely not. Nobody likes them, nobody "wants" to wear them. But we do. Nobody wants to do any of this but we are all united in our desire to drive "numbers" back down for all sorts of reasons. Every single new restriction that is imposed (and they are staggering right now) is with the goal of driving cases back down to the place where restrictions will again be lifted. Rather than immediately rebelling when a new restriction is imposed, most try their best to comply, regardless of how we think or feel about it. Now, I do agree that there will be a point where that might begin to fray and IMO that point will be reached if cases start declining to levels where our medical system is secure - IF restrictions aren't lifted. We're not mindless zombies and we're not sheep - we just have an entirely different ethos of our rights and responsibilities, and no significant reason to distrust our authorities and one another, no matter how our personal politics and ideologies might differ.

 

[ronandannette]

Its not going to be forever. Now that Vaccine is out by the end of the year I can see mask restrictions being lessened.

And really, masking is the very least of it. I've never really understood how masks became a hill to die on. I'd glue my mask on permanently if it meant the reopening of non-essential businesses (over 45,000 jobs lost this past Sunday morning in Alberta) and being able to meet with my family and friends again.

 

[Jrb1979]

And really, masking is the very least of it. I've never really understood how masks became a hill to die on. I'd glue my mask on permanently if it meant the reopening of non-essential businesses (over 45,000 jobs lost this past Sunday morning in Alberta) and being able to meet with my family and friends again.

Same here. I've worn a mask since this started as it was mandatory to wear at work. I do think by next fall the majority of things that have been taken away will be back. My spring I would imagine most businesses will be back to open but with capacity limits. By fall family gatherings will be back. The reason it will be the last thing to come back is thats where the majority of cases are coming from.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Rather than immediately rebelling when a new restriction is imposed, most try their best to comply, regardless of how we think or feel about it.

Truth be told it's not that everyone immediately rebels but standing up for what we believe in (or don't believe in as has been the case here) is part of the pro and con here. Most people just don't think about it in day to day life but it can and has become very important to us over time.

I'm sure if you see someone protesting masks here in the States where one's own area just more easily adopted I'm sure it looks like .

But really even that is shared amongst countries just not in the mask debate really. It reminds me of Welsh Dragon who mentioned their First Minister was banned from certain premises when the alcohol order went down. You really wouldn't see that here, you would however see people protesting this or showing up to town/city hall meetings. But both are a form of saying "we don't agree with this" one is just done in quite a cheeky manner.

And really, masking is the very least of it. I've never really understood how masks became a hill to die on. I'd glue my mask on permanently if it meant the reopening of non-essential businesses (over 45,000 jobs lost this past Sunday morning in Alberta) and being able to meet with my family and friends again.

I think most here in the States would agree with you honestly. Schooling too many of us would do a lot of things if it meant the kids could do in-person learning. But as with a lot of things it was late adoption to the ideology.

Even my own governor didn't really mention about masks being a main reason we can try to keep the businesses open until early July when her mask mandate went into force. She had described it paraphrasing here as well this is a way we can help keep from businesses having to shut down...yes well that was months too late for that reasoning to be given. Had that been the case in April when we were still under a stay at home order might have been different.

 

[BadPinkTink]

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/1217/1185094-mask-bus-eireann/
A man who refused to wear a face covering on a Bus last July, has been sentenced to two months in prison.

He had been asked by a bus driver to wear a mask properly, when travelling from Dublin to Knock, on 14 July.

Garda (Police) Thomas Bowens said he had refused to do this and that a number of passengers had gotten off the bus as a result.

He said Mr Heasman was wearing the mask "like a hat" and refused to comply with a requirement that he cover his mouth and nose.

The Police witness said that when he entered the bus, he outlined the legislation to the defendant, telling him he was committing an offence under the Health Act 1947.

In evidence, Mr Heasman said he told the Police he was exempt from wearing a mask for health reasons. He said the Police had asked him for medical evidence but he replied that under data protection, he was not required to provide that information.

The defendant said his uncle was being laid to rest on the day and he was travelling from Dublin for the funeral. He described the charges against him as "trumped up".

Judge Fiona Lydon said that in the light of the public health emergency, Mr Heasman's behaviour had been 'totally inappropriate".

She said she was satisfied that all of the ingredients required to secure a conviction had been satisfied by the State.

The Judge sentenced Mr Heasman to the prison term for an offence of failing to wear a face mask on public transport at Main Street, Ballyhaunis on 14 July last.

She took a charge of a breach of public order on the same date into account.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2020/1217/1185094-mask-bus-eireann/
A man who refused to wear a face covering on a Bus last July, has been sentenced to two months in prison.

He had been asked by a bus driver to wear a mask properly, when travelling from Dublin to Knock, on 14 July.

Garda (Police) Thomas Bowens said he had refused to do this and that a number of passengers had gotten off the bus as a result.

He said Mr Heasman was wearing the mask "like a hat" and refused to comply with a requirement that he cover his mouth and nose.

The Police witness said that when he entered the bus, he outlined the legislation to the defendant, telling him he was committing an offence under the Health Act 1947.

In evidence, Mr Heasman said he told the Police he was exempt from wearing a mask for health reasons. He said the Police had asked him for medical evidence but he replied that under data protection, he was not required to provide that information.

The defendant said his uncle was being laid to rest on the day and he was travelling from Dublin for the funeral. He described the charges against him as "trumped up".

Judge Fiona Lydon said that in the light of the public health emergency, Mr Heasman's behaviour had been 'totally inappropriate".

She said she was satisfied that all of the ingredients required to secure a conviction had been satisfied by the State.

The Judge sentenced Mr Heasman to the prison term for an offence of failing to wear a face mask on public transport at Main Street, Ballyhaunis on 14 July last.

She took a charge of a breach of public order on the same date into account.

Because corrections facilities are one of the worst places here in the States the idea is to NOT jail people unless really necessary. Sentences are attempted to be pushed off til a later date should violations still be pursued or in-home sentences handed out.

Over 5,900 inmates have tested positive in my state alone (which is the second highest in cluster summary behind long-term care facilities).

 

[Jrb1979]

Because corrections facilities are one of the worst places here in the States the idea is to NOT jail people unless really necessary. Sentences are attempted to be pushed off til a later date should violations still be pursued or in-home sentences handed out.

Over 5,900 inmates have tested positive in my state alone (which is the second highest in cluster summary behind long-term care facilities).

I agree. Its why here they have gone the route of fining people. Just last week they fined 2 people $880 for having a party at a hotel.

 

[lanejudy]

@BadPinkTink the article mentions the man claimed to be exempt for health reasons. What type of "medical evidence" would one be required to carry as proof? Just curious what's allowed/required in your country.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Because corrections facilities are one of the worst places here in the States the idea is to NOT jail people unless really necessary. Sentences are attempted to be pushed off til a later date should violations still be pursued or in-home sentences handed out.

Over 5,900 inmates have tested positive in my state alone (which is the second highest in cluster summary behind long-term care facilities).

This was from June https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0610/1146481-covid19-coronavirus-prisons/
The Irish Prison service has submitted a paper to the World Health Organization as a model of best practice for keeping Covid-19 out of prisons. In June the Irish Prison service had 3,705 prisoners nationwide and no detainee that has been screened and tested has had a positive Covid-19 result.

The first case of Covid in Irish prisons happened in August.

This article from November https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...ive-for-covid-19-in-limerick-prison-1.4402686 gives details of the Covid cases in Irish prisons since August. As far as I see there have been less than 20 inmates and less than 20 staff who have tested positive for Covid in the Irish Prison system.

 

[NFLDERS]

Truth be told it's not that everyone immediately rebels but standing up for what we believe in (or don't believe in as has been the case here) is part of the pro and con here. Most people just don't think about it in day to day life but it can and has become very important to us over time.

I'm sure if you see someone protesting masks here in the States where one's own area just more easily adopted I'm sure it looks like .

But really even that is shared amongst countries just not in the mask debate really. It reminds me of Welsh Dragon who mentioned their First Minister was banned from certain premises when the alcohol order went down. You really wouldn't see that here, you would however see people protesting this or showing up to town/city hall meetings. But both are a form of saying "we don't agree with this" one is just done in quite a cheeky manner.
I think most here in the States would agree with you honestly. Schooling too many of us would do a lot of things if it meant the kids could do in-person learning. But as with a lot of things it was late adoption to the ideology.

Even my own governor didn't really mention about masks being a main reason we can try to keep the businesses open until early July when her mask mandate went into force. She had described it paraphrasing here as well this is a way we can help keep from businesses having to shut down...yes well that was months too late for that reasoning to be given. Had that been the case in April when we were still under a stay at home order might have been different.

Is better late than never, totally off the table then?

 

[BadPinkTink]

@BadPinkTink the article mentions the man claimed to be exempt for health reasons. What type of "medical evidence" would one be required to carry as proof? Just curious what's allowed/required in your country.

This is whats listed on the Irish Citizens Advice website https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/face_coverings_during_covid19.html

1. Cannot wear a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or a disability, or because it would cause you severe distress
2. Need to communicate with someone who has difficulties communicating
3. Remove a face covering to provide care or assistance to a vulnerable person or to provide emergency assistance to someone
4. Remove a face covering to take medication
5. Remove a face covering to avoid harm or injury

In point 1, you would need a letter from a doctor or hospital. Genuine people who are in this exemption group will get the letter. Thats why the Police had a case and the Judge sent him to jail, as there was no proof wearing a mask caused him distress

 

[lanejudy]

Thanks, I was just curious what "proof" might be, especially considering his claim about data protection and not providing such info.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This was from June https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0610/1146481-covid19-coronavirus-prisons/
The Irish Prison service has submitted a paper to the World Health Organization as a model of best practice for keeping Covid-19 out of prisons. In June the Irish Prison service had 3,705 prisoners nationwide and no detainee that has been screened and tested has had a positive Covid-19 result.

The first case of Covid in Irish prisons happened in August.

This article from November https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...ive-for-covid-19-in-limerick-prison-1.4402686 gives details of the Covid cases in Irish prisons since August. As far as I see there have been less than 20 inmates and less than 20 staff who have tested positive for Covid in the Irish Prison system.

I understand. It may seem like an appropriate response in your country to jail for this infraction; swift and to the point. The same can not be said everywhere even if one feels the act is justified. Here in the States a good portion of the cases are asymptomatic in the corrections facilities oddly enough making it harder to catch. Keep in mind the U.S. is far larger with more inmates. Outbreaks here occurred early on far earlier than August. According to one source nearly 250K inmates in the U.S. have tested positive.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Thanks, I was just curious what "proof" might be, especially considering his claim about data protection and not providing such info.

In Europe as we are all under European GDPR legislation, it does not violate data protection when the Police request information in relation to a legal matter. Most people don't realize this, but I write GDPR polices for my clients so I know a bit more than the general public. This guy claiming violation of data protection is talking out of his hat and is another reason why the Police had a case.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Is better late than never, totally off the table then?

Most of us in my real life are desperate to do anything we can to keep further economic ruin and for schooling the concern over children's education, we aren't the people that need convincing at least as hard. Those that do, the rationale would have been better served if done earlier on. I'm not sure where you get the off the table aspect. It's just harder to convince those people, plus there's the very real concern of one's official backing out on their word and there are actually multiple places where this has happened; cases went below a designated threshold and..nothing happened even when the metric set up should have allowed things to reopen.

I remember when my governor pledged not to force businesses to close at the state level but leave the decision up to local health departments and counties it was...will they really? But she's repeated this multiple times and I believe she'll hold to it allowing local health departments and the counties make those decisions but then you see on the news "Stay at home order imminent?" which obviously doesn't help. So will I do what I can to keep businesses up? Yes I sure will, but I also on a practical level understand the other side. Why that has to be met with "totally off the table then" I'm not sure because that's not really what I'm saying