Cousin once removed???

[worm761]

Can someone who knows explain how the removing process works in a family? I have started working on my family tree. An uncle has been researching my dad's side of the family for years. He gave me a copy years ago. Just now looking at it, I have no idea how to tell who belongs to who!

 

[AKL_Megs]

Can I add... what are our cousin's children to us? Second cousins? I have about a million of them and I never know what to call them.

 

[Ohiodislover]

From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_once-removed




In kinship terminology, a cousin is a relative with whom one shares a common ancestor. In modern usage, the term is rarely used when referring to a relative in one's own line of descent, or where there is a more specific term to describe the relationship: e.g., brother, sister, aunt, uncle. The term blood relative can be used synonymously, and underlines the existence of a genetic link. A system of degrees and removes is used to describe the relationship between the two cousins and the ancestor they have in common.

The degree (first, second, third cousin, etc.) indicates one less than the minimum number of generations between both cousins and the nearest common ancestor. For example, a person with whom one shares a grandparent (but not a parent) is a first cousin; someone with whom one shares a great-grandparent (but not a grandparent) is a second cousin; and someone with whom one shares a great-great-grandparent (but not a great-grandparent) is a third cousin; and so on.

The remove (once removed, twice removed, etc.) indicates the number of generations, if any, separating the two cousins from each other. The child of one's first cousin is one's first cousin once removed because the one generation separation represents one remove. Oneself and the child are still considered first cousins, as one's grandparent (this child's great-grandparent), as the most recent common ancestor, represents one degree. Equally one's great-aunt or uncle (one's parent's cousin) is one's first cousin once removed because their grandparent (one's own great-grandparent) is the most recent common ancestor.

Non-genealogical usage often eliminates the degrees and removes, and refers to people with common ancestors merely as cousins or distant cousins. Alternatively, the terms 'second cousin' and 'first cousin once removed' are often incorrectly used interchangeably.[1]

The system can handle kinships going back any number of generations (subject to the genealogical information being available).

 

[laurafergie]

Can I add... what are our cousin's children to us? Second cousins? I have about a million of them and I never know what to call them.

If the cousins are your 1st cousins (children of an Aunt of Uncle) Then your cousin's children are your 1st cousins Once Removed - The removed meaning ONE Generation removed from the full kinship of 1st Cousin.

However - if you have children - your children will be 2nd cousins - to the above mentioned children. They are NOT removed, because they are the same generation.

In the South, we are all just "cousin".

 

[dansamy]

In the South, we are all just "cousin".

So true!! I actually have double first cousins because I have a great aunt who was a really good matchmaker. She matched my parents and another couple also. My mother and the uncle in question came from one side of the family while my father and the aunt in question came from the other side of the family. I just tell people that we really do find our spouses at family reunions down in the South!

(Note that none of the pairings above were amongst blood relatives. It just created a weird relationship because I have cousins who are my cousins both through my mother's (their father's) side of the family and through my father's (their mother's) side of the family.)

 

[bumbershoot]

In the South, we are all just "cousin".

And in Korea, you refer to your cousins as big/little brother or sister.



Just in case the excellent descriptions/explanations don't work for your own brain, an example.


My mom, Judy, had a sister Sylvia. So write them one after another on a line.

Judy had Molly (me), and Sylvia had Mandy. Molly and Mandy are first cousins. They are written on a line together, but below their moms.

Mandy had a child first, Evan. Molly and Evan are cousins once removed. If you're writing it all out on a chart, with each "generation" on its own line, you have to make a diagonal to connect Molly and Evan.

Then Molly had Eamon. So Eamon and Mandy are, again, cousins once removed, b/c it's a diagonal to connect them.

But Eamon and Evan, THEY are second cousins, because they are two down from the sisters, but on the same line.




I never understood it until my cousin (old enough to be my father, b/c of the age difference between his father and my father) wrote it all out for me on a piece of paper while we were at a reunion. The visual made it much easier.

 

[dislaney]

I'm so confused!

 

[worm761]

Thanks for the explanations. That should help me when trying to figure all this out.

 

[funkychunkymonkey]

Im confused too but I come from a family tree that became a family bush in the last 8 generations.

 

[bumbershoot]

I'm so confused!

Use your family and write it out. Makes it much more clear. My example was hard b/c of the Ms and the Es, but I can't help our names!

 

[Drew Sailbum]

...........................Andy ----- Betty
..................................../....\
.............................Cindy ... David
............................../...............\
.........................Ellen ............... Frank
........................./ ..................... \
.....................Gina ......................Harry
..................../ ..............................\
.................Inez ............................. James
................/ ..................................... \
............. Kathy .................................. Larry

Determining degree of relation
A couple, Andy and Betty, have two children - Cindy and David.

Cindy has a daughter named Ellen. David has a son named Frank.

Ellen and Frank are first cousins. They both must go back two generations to find a common ancestor (their grandparents Andy and Bety). The degree of cousin relationship (first, second, third, etc...) is equal to how many generations you must go back to find a common ancestor minus one. 2-1=1 ie first cousins.

Ellen has a daughter Gina. Frank has a son named Harry.

Gina and Harry are second cousins. They both must go back three generations to find a common ancestor (their great-grandparents Andy and Betty). 3-1=2 ie second cousins.

You could extend the example to future generations. Inez and James are third cousins. Kathy and Larry are fourth cousins.

Determining the generations removed

If the persons you are comparing in a family tree each must go back a different number of generations to find the common ancestor then these persons are not of the same generation.

In our example, Gina must go back three generations to find a common ancestor with Frank. Frank only goes back two generations to find that same set of common ancestors. (Andy and Betty in each case).

Use the smaller number to determine the degree of relation. Based upon Frank going back two generations to the common ancestor, Frank and Gina are First Cousins 2-1=1, and...

Frank and Gina are one generation off of being in the same level in the family tree. Therefore they are "once removed". Frank and Gina are thus First Cousins once removed.

Kathy and Harry are second cousins twice removed. Harry goes back three generations to the common ancestor. They are two generations off of being on the same generational level.

Inez and Larry are third cousins once removed. Ellen and Larry would be first cousins three times removed.

 

[Silent1CB]

Looks like my family has had those definitions reversed all these years.

 

[wdwfan16]

Can someone who knows explain how the removing process works in a family? I have started working on my family tree. An uncle has been researching my dad's side of the family for years. He gave me a copy years ago. Just now looking at it, I have no idea how to tell who belongs to who!

Lets say your father and your uncle are brothers. Both of them have a daughter (you and your cousin). You and your cousin both have a son.

You and your cousin are first cousins, since one generation ago your fathers were siblings.

The two boys are second cousins, since two generations ago their grandfathers were siblings.

Now to the once removed stuff.

You and your cousin's son are first cousins once removed. Since you are just one geneation from the siblings you are a first cousin. Since you are a generation older than your cousin's son you are once removed.


Does that make sense?

 

[puffkin]

If the cousins are your 1st cousins (children of an Aunt of Uncle) Then your cousin's children are your 1st cousins Once Removed - The removed meaning ONE Generation removed from the full kinship of 1st Cousin.

However - if you have children - your children will be 2nd cousins - to the above mentioned children. They are NOT removed, because they are the same generation.

In the South, we are all just "cousin".

Lets say your father and your uncle are brothers. Both of them have a daughter (you and your cousin). You and your cousin both have a son.

You and your cousin are first cousins, since one generation ago your fathers were siblings.

The two boys are second cousins, since two generations ago their grandfathers were siblings.

Now to the once removed stuff.

You and your cousin's son are first cousins once removed. Since you are just one geneation from the siblings you are a first cousin. Since you are a generation older than your cousin's son you are once removed.


Does that make sense?

Exactly

For example on my mom's side of the family I have 6 first cousins (children of my mom's brothers and sister). All of them have kids so the kids are MY first cousins once removed. I also have a son, so he and my cousin's kids are 2nd cousins.

It really is an easy concept once you get it. It is amazing how many people don't understand it though, I am constatnly having to explain it. We have a large family though with many generations.

 

[lvanleer]

On a related topic.....a great aunt/uncle is not you grandparents sibling but their parents siblings.....in otherwords a great grandmothers' brothers and sisters would be great aunts and uncles.....I've heard a lot of people refer to their grandparents sisters/brothers as great aunts/uncles which I found out in the past year is actually incorrect...it's grand aunt/uncle.

 

[agnes!]

On a related topic.....a great aunt/uncle is not you grandparents sibling but their parents siblings.....in otherwords a great grandmothers' brothers and sisters would be great aunts and uncles.....I've heard a lot of people refer to their grandparents sisters/brothers as great aunts/uncles which I found out in the past year is actually incorrect...it's grand aunt/uncle.

Well...Great-Uncle or Great-Aunt for a grandparent's sibling is not incorrect, it is actually the most commonly-accepted usage and I have only ever seen it listed first in dictionaries. Grand-uncle or Grand-Aunt for a grandparent's sibling is also accepted but in my experience has been always listed second because it is not as common.

Both are right but it could be said one ("great-uncle") is more right...

agnes!

 

[2binak]

I'm the youngest of 30 grandchildren (both sides combined). We just call 'em all "cousins" and leave out the 2nd, removed, etc. Dh's family on the other hand, thinks that you should call any of your parents cousins "Aunt & Uncle" purely out of respect, even though they are your cousins too. I think that just causes too much confusion and family history can easily get lost. When I met DH, he honestly thought that some of his parent's cousins were his Aunts & Uncles and he couldn't understand why I was referring to them as his cousins. I just don't want DD to go through that same confusion so I put my foot down and told DH that DD will be referring to all of her cousins (no matter their age) as "cousin".