Couple kicked off of airplane for this:

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Imagine the outrage IF this child was abducted and nothing was done by the airline. It is obvious that they are in a lose/lose situation.
IMHO, always better to err on the side of caution. Racism, nah, I don't buy that, concern, definitely.
Any child trying to get away from someone and screaming Mommy, mommy, etc, while the female is holding them is going to get my attention.

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I TOTALLY agree! My kids NEVER screamed "Mommy" WHILE I was holding them.. I would have been suspicious as well - even if the child were of the same race!

 

[Disney Enthusiast]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Imagine the outrage IF this child was abducted and nothing was done by the airline. It is obvious that they are in a lose/lose situation.
IMHO, always better to err on the side of caution. Racism, nah, I don't buy that, concern, definitely.
Any child trying to get away from someone and screaming Mommy, mommy, etc, while the female is holding them is going to get my attention.

ITA. If it were my child screaming and trying to get away from me, I would be happy they checked it out. At least I'd know that other people out there are looking around for suspicious activity. Like w/ Elizabeth Smart as a PP mentioned, if only someone would have said something earlier (and she wasn't even crying out). We must all protect our children out there, even if we make mistakes. It's better to check it out. I'm glad others are watching out for my child.

Now providing another flight after the mishap was cleared up would have been a nice gesture. Taking the bus seemed to add to the frustration I am sure.

 

[Disney Enthusiast]

Originally posted by C.Ann
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I TOTALLY agree! My kids NEVER screamed "Mommy" WHILE I was holding them.. I would have been suspicious as well - even if the child were of the same race!

ITA!

If I'm holding him and he is screaming.... It's not "Mommy" I can assure you.... It's "Daddy, Daddy, Save me from Mommy!" maybe as he is reaching for him. LOL.

I'd be suspicious as well.

 

[TigerBear]

I just shared this story with a co-worker of mine who happens to be from Vietnam. She told me that she experienced a similar problem with her two biological children. She was taking a flight from Houston to Cancun and her two children were with her (her husband was not). She kept her maiden name when she got married - her children have her husband's last name. At the ticket counter she was given a very hard time since she could not prove the children were hers. She only had their passports - which do not list mother's name. She said it took quite a while and her talking to a manager before she was allowed to board with her own children!!! She said her lesson learned was to always travel with their birth certificates.

 

[TigerBear]

BTW, her husband is Vietnamese as well.

 

[Mary Ellen]

For a number of years Mexico has required a parent travelling with children (and without the other parent) to have documented approval from the non-travelling parent. This is because of custody disputes.

 

[Prince Eric1]

Imagine the outrage if this child had been abducted and no one had checked into it. Would people have been screaming racism then because the adults were white and had not been checked? Then the argument would have been that if the child was white and the adults were of another race they would have been kicked off and checked. It sounds to me like the company was being cautious and trying to protect a child, which I will never argue against. Yes, I would be frustrated if this happened to me, but I would be outraged and homicidal if the company had allowed my child to be abducted by strangers while my child screamed without checking into it.

 

[KrnB]

Originally posted by Rajah
Couldn't they have done the checking *during* the flight, and if it proved to be suspicious, had police waiting for them at the *end* of the flight, thus not inconveniencing anyone, not causing a scene, but still getting the information checked out?

That was the first thing I thought of too... did they really have to interupt the flight for everyone on the plane in order to verify whether or not these people were the child's parents/legal guardians? They could have asked for identification and had it checked while on route.

It is definitely worth checking in to it, but they didn't have to do it in a manner that treated them like criminals before being proven as such.

 

[Princess_Aurora]

I don't think the problem here is that they dealt with it...I think it's HOW they dealt with it. Like someone else said, they could have investigated it after the plane had taken off and if they found foul play was involved they could quickly have police waiting for them in Florida. I mean, it's good that they were concerned, but to me it seems like if they didn't have any proof or even any abduction reports that they had no right to kick these people off the plane.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by KrnB

It is definitely worth checking in to it, but they didn't have to do it in a manner that treated them like criminals before being proven as such.

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How do you know they were "treated like criminals"? Did it state somewhere that the police came barging on to the plane and dragged them off? Did someone get on the bull horn and say: "We don't believe that child is yours.. Hand it over right now!"

OR - perhaps an attendant came up to them and discreetly asked them if they would step off the plane for a moment - without adding any further?

It wouldn't be the first time that a passenger or passengers have been quietly asked to step off the plane for one reason or another and aside from the people who actually voiced their concerns to the attendant, it's quite possible that no one actually KNEW why they were being asked to get off the plane..

I stand by my original comment that the correct action was taken and I think these people are simply looking for a big cash settlement and using the "race" card to get it..

 

[arminnie]

Originally posted by CEDmom
But see that's the problem. If this was done because there was concern a child was being abducted then the policy should extend to all situations where a child is crying and trying to get away from an adult irregardless of whether the child and the adult are the same race or even look alike.

What happens if a crazy uncle is abducting a niece/nephew? Are they taken off the plane and questioned or just left alone because they look alike?

I had the most HORRIBLE encounter at the DFW airport almost 20 years ago. My nephew was about 3 1/2 and had only seen me a few times in his life. My SIL had left him with me for the day, and we had gone back to the airport to pick her up at 9 pm.

I was too naive to know that you don't wake up a sleeping 4 year old child at 9 pm and expect them to be rational. We get inside and he starts SCREAMING at the top of his lungs "I WANT MY MOMMY' followed by "DON'T TOUCH ME" over and over again interspersed with just plain screaming. You would have sworn that he was being beaten within an inch of his life from the sounds alone.

This was back in the days when you could go to the gate. I wanted to jerk him up and take him back to the car but I just knew I was going to be arrested. Airport personnel did come over and talk to us (not that he stopped screaming for a minute). I told them that we were waiting for his mother. I don't think they would have let me leave with him. At this point I was ready to leave WITHOUT him.

Of course his mother's plane was an hour late. The minute she walked in he stopped. He went from utter, total hysterical meltdown to perfectly calm. He's 22 now and doesn't remember a thing about it, but I do have to remind him of it every now and then.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by KrnB
That was the first thing I thought of too... did they really have to interupt the flight for everyone on the plane in order to verify whether or not these people were the child's parents/legal guardians? They could have asked for identification and had it checked while on route.

It is definitely worth checking in to it, but they didn't have to do it in a manner that treated them like criminals before being proven as such.

I think the screaming is what set the problem off. To have checked the id (or whatever) for a calm child would really have caused a ruckus.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by Princess_Aurora
I don't think the problem here is that they dealt with it...I think it's HOW they dealt with it. Like someone else said, they could have investigated it after the plane had taken off and if they found foul play was involved they could quickly have police waiting for them in Florida. I mean, it's good that they were concerned, but to me it seems like if they didn't have any proof or even any abduction reports that they had no right to kick these people off the plane.

What if these people were not on the up and up, what if they did start the flight and something happened to the child? If they were abductors do you seriously think they would not harm the child? I think the airline did the appropriate thing and I applaud them for erring on the side of caution. Also, who really wants a flight with a screaming child?

 

[HollyJoy]

Not quite sure how I feel about this... rather mixed about it, actually! One of my best friend's sister adopted a child from Hawaii, and he is truly Hawaiian. Needless to say, he looks NOTHING like his adoptive parents, and it would probably tick me off to hear this happening to them. On the other side, I can see where doubts would be raised, and the authorities were just trying to look out for the child. Tough one!

 

[CEDmom]

Ok, I thought a lot about this last night and even told my very levelheaded DH the story. He said if this happened to us he'd sue. His response surprised me because he doesn't respond to most things like that.

Anyway, I tried to imagine the scenario that these people really were abducting a child and the more I thought about it the more ridiculous it became to me. Seriously, what child abductors are going to get on a plane with the child? They just aren't going to risk having that many witnesses or being trapped if the child does make others aware of the situation. Most child abductions are the result of a custody dispute and involve the non-custodial parent. Stranger abductions, while they do happen, are quite rare. In incidences of stranger abductions unfortunately the child is usually molested and then killed not taken on a plane.

I can't say what happened was blatantly racist but it sure was ignorant. For people to just assume something sinister was happening because the child didn't look like the parents and was crying mommy, mommy while trying to get away is over the top IMHO.

Many posters said their children never did anything like this. Well, imagine this scenario. You and your DH get on a plane with your under 2 yo lap baby (I believe this child was actually under 2 or she would have been in a carseat and not held) and your child doesn't want to be held. You tighten your gripe while she tries to wiggle out of your arms. She starts to cry she wants to say mommy let go, mommy I want down, mommy you're holding me too tight. However she's under 2 and has a limited vocabulary so all that comes out whiles she's cry and struggling is mommy, mommy, mommy.

If you still honestly think what happened is perfectly ok then I hope you're prepared to be taken off a plane and interrogated when your child start to fuss even if he is a dead ringer for you.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by CEDmom
Most child abductions are the result of a custody dispute and involve the non-custodial parent.


If you still honestly think what happened is perfectly ok then I hope you're prepared to be taken off a plane and interrogated when your child start to fuss even if he is a dead ringer for you.

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I have personal knowledge of a non-custodial abduction that happened quite a few years ago.. Because the non-custoidal parent knew that the authorities would be looking for her she arranged to have someone unknown to the custodial parent take the two children on an airplane and fly them across the country.. The same type of scenario could have applied here..

As for your last point, the general rule of thumb is to always err on the side of caution when there is a child involved and ask questions later.. May not be pleasant, but it's the safest way to operate..

 

[Serena]

With children, I alway err on the side of caution, these days I don't think you can do any less. Maybe someone's judgement may have been off, maybe something happened in their lives for this to have triggered a response, but I may be angry at the time, but once I called down, I would be thankful that they were keeping an eye out for my kid.


on a side note, me and my sil were at McDonalds with our kids. Her dd was misbehaving, nothing new, and it was time to leave. Well, her mom normally didn't leave when this happened, so for her mom to tell her they had to leave because I was there, didn't go over very well.
Her mom had to take her daughter, carry her out to the car, kicking and screaming. When the sweet little darling saw the police eating, she started screaming that she wasn't her mom that she was being kidnapped, etc, etc. I guess the police saw what had been going on because they ignored her totally and let us go with no problems.

Yes, I was mean and my neice hated me for a long time.

 

[palmtreegirl]

Originally posted by CEDmom
Ok, I thought a lot about this last night and even told my very levelheaded DH the story. He said if this happened to us he'd sue. His response surprised me because he doesn't respond to most things like that.

Anyway, I tried to imagine the scenario that these people really were abducting a child and the more I thought about it the more ridiculous it became to me. Seriously, what child abductors are going to get on a plane with the child? They just aren't going to risk having that many witnesses or being trapped if the child does make others aware of the situation. Most child abductions are the result of a custody dispute and involve the non-custodial parent. Stranger abductions, while they do happen, are quite rare. In incidences of stranger abductions unfortunately the child is usually molested and then killed not taken on a plane.

I can't say what happened was blatantly racist but it sure was ignorant. For people to just assume something sinister was happening because the child didn't look like the parents and was crying mommy, mommy while trying to get away is over the top IMHO.

Many posters said their children never did anything like this. Well, imagine this scenario. You and your DH get on a plane with your under 2 yo lap baby (I believe this child was actually under 2 or she would have been in a carseat and not held) and your child doesn't want to be held. You tighten your gripe while she tries to wiggle out of your arms. She starts to cry she wants to say mommy let go, mommy I want down, mommy you're holding me too tight. However she's under 2 and has a limited vocabulary so all that comes out whiles she's cry and struggling is mommy, mommy, mommy.

If you still honestly think what happened is perfectly ok then I hope you're prepared to be taken off a plane and interrogated when your child start to fuss even if he is a dead ringer for you.

I agree I think it was racism.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by palmtreegirl
I agree I think it was racism.

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Just for the heck of it, let's take the "race" thing out of this (because nowhere has it been determined that race was the motivating factor - I believe the incident was motivated by a child screaming, "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy" and not responding to the female who was holding the child)..

So now we have Mom, Dad, and the child - all of the same race.. Said child is screaming "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy" and trying to squirm out of the arms of the woman who is holding him or her.. Would you not find that curious in the least?

I have 3 kids - 5 stepkids - 1 granddaughter - 8 stepgrandchildren - and not a one of them has ever screamed for "Mommy" - at any age - when "Mommy" was already holding them..

Maybe I'm too suspicious - what with all of the Amber alerts; non-custodial kidnappings; faces plastered on milk cartons; etc. - but I would prefer they err on the side of caution rather than see another child disappear.. I would have been very alarmed by that scene and I definitely would have brought it to someones attention..

 

[CEDmom]

Originally posted by C.Ann
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Just for the heck of it, let's take the "race" thing out of this (because nowhere has it been determined that race was the motivating factor - I believe the incident was motivated by a child screaming, "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy" and not responding to the female who was holding the child)..

So now we have Mom, Dad, and the child - all of the same race.. Said child is screaming "Mommy, Mommy, Mommy" and trying to squirm out of the arms of the woman who is holding him or her.. Would you not find that curious in the least?

I have 3 kids - 5 stepkids - 1 granddaughter - 8 stepgrandchildren - and not a one of them has ever screamed for "Mommy" - at any age - when "Mommy" was already holding them..

Maybe I'm too suspicious - what with all of the Amber alerts; non-custodial kidnappings; faces plastered on milk cartons; etc. - but I would prefer they err on the side of caution rather than see another child disappear.. I would have been very alarmed by that scene and I definitely would have brought it to someones attention..

I sincerely believe the situation would have been ignored or handled completely differently if the parents and child were all blond and blue eyed. As for never having a child cry mommy when mommy was holding her my DD has done it. She didn't want to be held and was trying to say "mommy put me down" but all she could come up with because of her age and language skills at the time was mommy, mommy.

My opinion on this matter is the area they were flying from is not what I'd consider ethnically diverse. I bet the family got a lot of stares and attention. It's happened to us many times. I'm not going to go so far and say this was racially motivated. It was however motivated by ignorance.