Couple Arrested for Refusing to Pay Tip

[CathrynRose]

No her question is that since it was required, the restaurants should have to record it in their gross revenue, just like regular food sales. Your regular tips don't hit the company's income statement and I suspect these 18% fees don't either.

Since the restaurant wants them to be guaranteed, they shouldn't be treated like tips. When they are paid out to you it would be treated like regular salary or commission. I don't think it would matter alot up here (to the waitresses bottom-line, not the restaurant), but I don't know about the states.

I appreciate this. I didn't know that's the direction that question was headed, but that being said...

The restaurant doesn't have to claim it, because the server does. The restaurant isn't making profit from it - the server is.

Why would anyone expect it to be reported, twice?

****I came in here to edit this, and had a server go down, i had to attend to.... so my response may not be up to date now...Ooops.

 

[N.Bailey]

That's *your* opinion, OP. (as far as stealing) IMO - going into a restaurant, full knowing that server is 'tipping out' her bussers, bar, etc - and choosing not to tip *even if the service is fantastic* but because they don't like to, and making that server pay out of their own pocket to do that tip out, is IMO, stealing.


Easiest way to verify the CC tip reporting? Call any chain restaurant. They all do it.

Why do you think I'm making it up??? Why would I? That is what we *all* had to do. And this was 10+ years ago.

I was waiting tables 10+ years ago too. No restaurant that I am aware of ever automatically turned in credit card tips as tips for a server. I really don't see how a management staff could pull it off effectively unless there were only 1 or 2 waitresses in the entire restaurant.

Am I saying no one has ever done this? Absolutely not, but I can't see it being a feasible way of operation in this business. In my experience, it's up to waitstaff to turn their own tip reports in. It's the management's job to get that figure turned in via the computer each week, but to expect the management to hold the hand of the waitstaff to make sure they're turning in the proper tip report is absurd. That's between you and the IRS and frankly, every manager I've ever worked under, no one gave a crap what I reported personally. Keeping track of my tips was my job, not their job.

But that's all frankly, off topic.

To get back to the topic at hand, it's NOT only my opinion that refusing to leave a tip is stealing. That's what the LAW says and quite frankly, that's not up for debate.

 

[dbriggsq]

This is what I said
I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Huge Difference

So this is not a gratuity for good service then - it amounts to a payment which you feel you should give - see my post 271 for why I think this is wrong.

 

[happygirl]

So this is not a gratuity for good service then - it amounts to a payment which you feel you should give - see my post 271 for why I think this is wrong.

This wasn;t directed at you this was for Merry you mis quoted me

 

[N.Bailey]

Ya know what? I'm not willing to risk getting banned from here, so I think I'm done.

But if anyone knows the answer to whether or not the tax burden for a forced gratuity should be the responsibility of the restaurant as part of their profit, feel free to send me a message because I'm really curious.

Because now I actually wonder if the tax part of this equation has something to do with why a gratuity cannot be required. If the "gratuity" is required, the restaurant should also be collecting tax on said gratuity (which hurts my head)... yes? So the $16 or whatever it was, should be even higher still because the $16 should be taxed...?

If it's labeled as a gratuity, it's not the property of the business, so no, they should not be held liable for the tax burden on the tip.

IF however they want to get around the law and call it a service charge, that would then would make it the property of the business and should be fully taxable as profit for said business.

That's what they're going to try to do, IMO and some already have. They label it a service charge because the courts have said automatic tipping is illegal. So, they want to add the service charge, but then want to hand it off to the wait staff and bypass the law. It will be curious to follow it thru the years as cases come up, but a very strong argument could be made that they are trying to defraud the customer.

 

[N.Bailey]

OMG that isn't even close to what I said.

This is what I said
I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Huge Difference

A server would have to be downright rude for me to not tip. I eat out fairly regularly and have yet to have such terrible service. My tip doesn't go down if my server is so busy they can't keep up. If they are pleasant when they are at my table, I am willing to overlook things that they probably just forgot and couldn't get around to as quickly as they may have if they weren't so busy.

Again, I never had rude service in my life, but if I do, I can assure you, I won't care about no automatic gratuity. I will NOT leave a dime.

 

[CathrynRose]

HappyGirl - Are your CC tips reported 100%?

 

[happygirl]

HappyGirl - Are your CC tips reported 100%?

I think they were add in sales for the night

 

[CathrynRose]

To get back to the topic at hand, it's NOT only my opinion that refusing to leave a tip is stealing. That's what the LAW says and quite frankly, that's not up for debate.

I'm not talking about refusing to leave a tip for garbage service. I'm not even talking about the original post.

There have been a few posts, in this thread, that reference the fact that some people don't ever feel like they should have to tip - ever. Even if everything is great.

And again - IMO - if you go into an establishment, full well knowing that even if your server is doing back flips and round houses for you - and you know that server has to 'tip out' - and you "just don't feel like tipping" ....

Well, here - what would *you* call that? The people who 'just don't want to tip'?? What is it? They're providing a service to you, that most people tip for - hence why you don't just go through the drive thru. So, what would you call not tipping, if you don't want to use the term stealing.

I never referenced the original post, in my 'stealing' posts. I talked about (above).

 

[dbriggsq]

This wasn;t directed at you this was for Merry you mis quoted me

Sorry but this is what you seemed to be saying

OMG that isn't even close to what I said.

This is what I said
I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Huge Difference

 

[happygirl]

Sorry but this is what you seemed to be saying

OMG that isn't even close to what I said.

This is what I said
I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Huge Difference

You have losted me Merry said I said that I would spit in a server face which isn;t close to what I said

 

[N.Bailey]

I'm not talking about refusing to leave a tip for garbage service. I'm not even talking about the original post.

There have been a few posts, in this thread, that reference the fact that some people don't ever feel like they should have to tip - ever. Even if everything is great.

And again - IMO - if you go into an establishment, full well knowing that even if your server is doing back flips and round houses for you - and you know that server has to 'tip out' - and you "just don't feel like tipping" ....

Well, here - what would *you* call that? The people who 'just don't want to tip'?? What is it? They're providing a service to you, that most people tip for - hence why you don't just go through the drive thru. So, what would you call not tipping, if you don't want to use the term stealing.

I never referenced the original post, in my 'stealing' posts. I talked about (above).

I don't particularly like those people, and I do think they may be the bottom feeders, but legally, they have no obligation. Morally, yes, they should tip, but legally, they just don't have to. No one ever promised us that life is fair. IMO though, karma is alive and well and they will get their due.

 

[dbriggsq]

You have losted me Merry said I said that I would spit in a server face which isn;t close to what I said

And you said

This is what I said
I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

 

[N.Bailey]

And you said

This is what I said
I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Let me try.


I can't image stiffing a server. They would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book, and then some, for me not to leave them something.

EDIT: BTW, my threshold isn't quite as severe as this one, but a server would have to be downright rude for me not to tip.

 

[merryweather20]

OMG that isn't even close to what I said.

This is what I said
I can't image stiffing a server they would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book and then some, for me not to leave them something

Huge Difference

Nope, no difference at all. You want to go read my post where I said I wanted bare bones service, like cuttlery and a napkin and you said I wanted Johnny on the spot perfection and I thought waitresses were pond scum?

I'm a heck of a lot closer than you are.

 

[happygirl]

Nope, no difference at all. You want to go read my post where I said I wanted bare bones service, like cuttlery and a napkin and you said I wanted Johnny on the spot perfection and I thought waitresses were pond scum?

I'm a heck of a lot closer than you are.

I said tha but I think it was at someone else I believe it to be true

 

[dbriggsq]

Let me try.


I can't image stiffing a server. They would have to spit on my face and call me every name in the book, and then some, for me not to leave them something.

EDIT: BTW, my threshold isn't quite as severe as this one, but a server would have to be downright rude for me not to tip.

So again this is not a gratuity for good service - it is a payment which you feel you ought to make - big difference. See my previous post for why I think this is wrong.

 

[merryweather20]

I said tha but I think it was at someone else I believe it to be true

Nope that was me! Post 243 to 246 if you're interested.

 

[N.Bailey]

So again this is not a gratuity for good service - it is a payment which you feel you ought to make - big difference. See my previous post for why I think this is wrong.

ummm, I think you should read my posts. I think you're misinterpreting something I might have said. I am 100% against mandatory tipping and will quote the law to back my position up if need be.

 

[C.Ann]

Maybe someone would like to start a "general" tipping thread - not to be confused or jaded by the news article that started this whole conversation..

Personally I think it's fascinating - the various view points..