Could I have your opinions on a school issue?

[wdwnutze]

I had this problem last year when my dd was in the 4th grade. She came home and told me that I had to vote on a certain day(I do appreciate any reminders) and that the teachers wanted us to vote for the override or else the aides would all lose their jobs and there would be no more music. I think that the school personnel has the right to plead their case to the parents but not through the students. They should send home a flyer with the information on it and not tell the kids to make sure their parents vote. I know my dd was very upset and cried about losing her favorite aides at school. They even had the aides go around the Friday before the vote to say "goodbye" just in case they didn't get the override passed. think our children have enough to worry about in this day and age to not have to worry about someone losing their job.

 

[goofy4tink]

I wonder what would happen in school systems if they cut football or basketball programs?? Why is it always the fine arts that get lost in the shuffle? Art and music are important too. We are facing possible user fees in our town. We've been really fortunate in being able to avoid them in the past. But if they are the only way to keep these fine arts programs and some of the para-professionals, then I say go for it. When I see teachers not getting to school until about 15 minutes before the start of the day and leaving as soon as they get the kids on a bus, well, I have to wonder. They have team meetings during the day and someone has to cover their classroom. Usually a para-pro. I'm just not sure why they can't do these things after school. One teacher even complained during MCAS testing that she wasn't getting her scheduled break, it was against her contract!!! So, basically the teachers are working about 5 1/2 hrs a day. They have at least one 45 minute period where they have free time since their class is in another program. These teachers are getting an average of $43,000 a year. I don't begrudge them a decent pay check. God knows that being with these kids all day is something else. But, I really don't think they have a whole lot to complain about. At least not in my town.

 

[gina2000]

There is such a crisis in the US school system that at this point I suspect teachers are using any means possible to get parents out to vote. I don't agree with their tactics but I do understand their dismay.

In our town, less than 6% of the township residents vote for the school budget. A disproportionate amount of them are seniors who have budget concerns. The rest just don't bother. I think teachers/administrators would accept the popular vote if it were representative of the cross section of the township's population, but it's not even close.

My town hasn't passed a budget in 40 years. Our schools are old, our curriculum out of date. Our principal is a gem - she spends her own money on things the school needs - as do many of our teachers, the PTO and private industry (read begging on the part of one very active, very concerned parent). We are truly lucky to have the concern of our PTO and staff as well as our principal. But WE DON'T HAVE PARENTS VOTING! It's a frustrating situation to say the least for everyone concerned.

In our area, there is a direct correlation between school performance and real estate prices. Better school districts have more people competing to buy in those towns. It translates directly. So it makes sense to pass a budget in the long run for the majority of the residents.

I can't comment on unions and their practises. I can only say that our most effective teachers are not necessarily our youngest ones. ALL of our teachers are performing. I can't imagine suggesting that they are paid too much in light of what goes on in a classroom day after day. But that's my opinion.

I realize I've digressed. The teachers in your schools shouldn't be bringing the children into these discussions. Using emotional leverage will only anger people. I do hope you get a budget passed, though. I think education is the most important gift we give our children. And they deserve the best.

 

[CRB#33]

Hey Wishy,

You know I'm a teacher, but I have to tell you this annoys me too. It drives me crazy when teachers fill in students about their personal lives. Their overwhelming desire to talk about themselves makes me

Now it seems to be okay to encourage the students to adopt their personal agendas too.

I think this is plain wrong.

It's fine to teach a child to be responsible to his/her community, but to be so obviously furthering their own agenda is ethically wrong in my opinion. The excessiveness of it is what makes me believe that is exactly what they are doing.

 

[patsal]

I teach and therefore I would say I'm on the inside. However, the situations you describe seem way out of line. I never tell the kids I could lose my job if the budget doesn't go through. I think that would be irresponsible, the kids have other things to worry about. Occasionally the kids I teach ask me a question about the budget, I teach HS kids so it comes up sometimes. I believe a flyer reminding people to get out and vote on an issue that does affect them is important, but that is the limit to that. It seems that psychological blackmail can never be a good thing.

 

[aprincessmom]

I think it's excessive. It's not fair to children to tell them you'll lose your job unless their parents support the school budget.

As for paying for supplies...I spent a great deal of money this year on school supplies for DD. We are required to supply notebooks, pencils, erasers, crayons, markers, folders, etc. as well as antibacterial wipes, kleenex, cups, and the like. And this is just first grade. All parents get a list of required supplies at the beginning of the year and reminder notes when the children run low during the year.

The teacher also sent out a note at the beginning of the year asking for extras like stickers, stamps, colored paper, etc. to keep school budget costs down. She continues to do this throughout the year. Just yesterday I got a note asking for 2 boxes of assorted types of bandaids for a math project they are doing.

DD is in first grade and so far this year I've spent almost $200 on school supplies for her and her teacher. That doesn't count all the goofy school fundraisers and scholastic book orders (which are almost mandatory because they get sent home with a note saying that the more books you order, the more books she can purchase for the classroom and without my order, her ability to buy for her classroom will be lessened "dramatically") as well as the cost of the school fieldtrips and holiday art projects.

My understanding from other parents is it gets worse as they get older because you need more supplies per child. UGH!

In our town we pay extra for bus service and most all sports and afterschool activities so the school budget can be used for curriculum.

So to pay taxes for what I'm assuming is partly for education, to supplement it with paying for the bus, all extra-curricular activities, school supplies for the child, school supplies for the teacher, and other miscellaneous expenses related to the lessons developed by said teacher for the curriculum, it's a bit offensive to have your child come home and say you need to pay more or my teacher is going to lose her job.

 

[BrerMom]

gina2000, excellent post.

I think the teachers that are doing this may feel this is their last chance to influence the vote. Is it morally correct, probably not, and definitely not in elementary. But I sure understand where they are coming from. But having the aides say good-bye to the kids? Please. As if it would go into effect that quickly anyway.

I teach high school and have a little more flexibility. When the kids asked me about our district's situation, I said, "Well, my pay-cut goes into effect with the next paycheck." A girl fired back, "At least you've got a job." And she was right; there are so many people worried about being laid off right now that you can feel the tension. The topic hasn't come up again.

When teachers say they spend their own money, most of us mean that we buy extras that make learning easier for the kids but sure aren't in the budget. I've probably spent over $500 on supplies so far this year. It's hard to teach hands-on topics without the manipulatives. In one example, I spent almost $100 on a set of geometric manipulatives. The class learned the concepts in one day. Last year I tried to draw on the board, cut up boxes, etc. Most of them finally understood the concepts but it took three class periods.

It looks like it's going to get worse before it gets better. The current plan is not to replace teachers that retire, etc. That means larger class sizes, more work for the teacher, less individual help for the students.

 

[Keli]

This think this is a morally reprehensible situation. Teachers may certainly mention the situation to their high school students (I really believe elementary students are too young for this lesson) if they desire to enlighten them on the subject but then in the sense of fairness they would need to explain how that this would raise everyone's taxes. In my county you pay school taxes as a part of payroll taxes, not property tax as I know they do elsewhere, therefore the teachers should mention to the students that more money will be taken from their paychecks at McDonalds, etc. as well as from their parent's paychecks.

What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with presenting the situation to the students as a learning exercise but a fair and unbiased presentation should be given.

 

[Tinkbell]

Originally posted by goofy4tink
I! So, basically the teachers are working about 5 1/2 hrs a day. They have at least one 45 minute period where they have free time since their class is in another program. These teachers are getting an average of $43,000 a year. I don't begrudge them a decent pay check. God knows that being with these kids all day is something else. But, I really don't think they have a whole lot to complain about. At least not in my town.

They may spend 51/2 a day at school, but teaching is a career where you take hours of work home a day. Hey, I'm sure there are some slackers, but you don't know what they ALL do at home.

That "free time" is actually planning time and most of the teachers I know use it as that.



I think having aides going to each room and saying "goodbye" is excessive. I wouldn't scare young children into thinking their teachers will disappear. However, I see nothing wrong with children encouraging their parents to vote to support their school.

 

[gemmie214]

Originally posted by goofy4tink
One teacher even complained during MCAS testing that she wasn't getting her scheduled break, it was against her contract!!! So, basically the teachers are working about 5 1/2 hrs a day. They have at least one 45 minute period where they have free time since their class is in another program. These teachers are getting an average of $43,000 a year. I don't begrudge them a decent pay check. God knows that being with these kids all day is something else. But, I really don't think they have a whole lot to complain about. At least not in my town.

I do not understand why you seem outraged that someone would like to take their well earned break. It is not only part of the contract but also (at least here) a law.

I have also seen teachers running out the door at the end of the day. Most of them are trying to make it on time to their 2nd jobs. They have student loans to pay off including the extra loans from their Masters degree. They need the extra money. In Ma. teachers do not start at a salary anywhere close t 43 a year but even that makes it difficult to house, cloth and feed a family as well as paying back huge loans.
Teachers choose this field and know what they are getting into but please stop and remember that these dedicated people do not earn nearly as much as other professionals with the same educational backgrounds.
Teachers, in my area at least, are expected to put their 40 in at the school and ALSO take huge amounts of work home with them. Correcting and lesson planning at night and on weekends.

 

[Tinkbell]

(((APPLAUDS)) gemmie214

 

[TINKFAN3]

I have 3 students. One in each level of our corporation. We are in the midst of a harsh budget cut. My elementary and junior high student have not been approached by their teachers. My high school student has been. He was told by one teacher that if we weren't dropping bombs we could be using that money saving Mr. .........'s job. The teacher has been very vocal about his stance on the war but this statement had NO connection to the issue at hand (this was art class and they were throwing clay on the potter's wheel).
The students were also encouraged to wear black ribbons to protest the cuts and to sign a poster to be sent to the school board. When I asked several students what the ribbons were for the majority had little facts of the situation to give an explanation. Tskk...the teacher's really wanted to show they had support but they forgot one major factor, to educate!
Were they out of line? Yes!

 

[gemmie214]

TINKFAN3, I am sorry that I neglected to respond to your original question. I do think educating the children on the budget cuts ect is in itself harmless but I do think in your instance it has gone over the line. Fostering your political opinions on the minds that you are there to mold is an abuse of power (IMO). Educating the kids on the issues at hand and the pros and cons of the cuts is another story. The infomation should be given in an unbiased manner so that kids can make up their own minds. I also think that the info should be given to the older children and leave the young ones out of it. They are to young to be expected to take on the burden of worrying about someone they respect and care about job.

 

[skuttle]

So, basically the teachers are working about 5 1/2 hrs a day. They have at least one 45 minute period where they have free time since their class is in another program. These teachers are getting an average of $43,000 a year. I don't begrudge them a decent pay check. God knows that being with these kids all day is something else. But, I really don't think they have a whole lot to complain about. At least not in my town.

I have to reply to this. I'm not a teacher, but DH will be in a couple of years. He's a music education major and right now he's the percussion instructor at a local high school. When DH finally does become a full-time band direcor, he will not be working 5 1/2 hours a day...he'll be working more hours in a day than me and I'm going to be an attorney. With music, DH will have to teach during normal school hours, plus after school rehersals (afternoon and evening), not to mention weekend rehersals, weekend competitions/events, camp during the summer, extra time at home spent writing music, etc. Will he get paid extra for this? No. And if he doesn't do it, the program will suffer and he'll get fired. He loves music and loves teaching, that's why he's doing this. It's definately NOT for the money (especially here in Louisiana). And in music, as with all of the arts, they are always the victims of the budget cuts. Administrations rarely, if ever, give the arts the respect and funding they deserve. So will my DH have a lot to complain about...YES!

 

[phamton]

I can never figure out this 5 1/2 hour thing.

Almost all public schools in Texas start at 8:00 A.M. and end at 3:30 P.M. (What I'm hearing is that other states start school later and end earlier. Is that correct?)

Even our first graders go to school from 8-3:30 and in my town the kindergartners go from 8-3:30 also.

My regular hours as a 3rd garde teacher are this:
Must be at school by 7:40 A.M.
May not leave school until 3:40. That's 8 hours.

We have a 30 minute lunch which we can not leave campus for but 10 mintues of the lunch is taken delivering the kids to the cafeteria and picking them up from the cafeteria. We had 45 minute planning period during the school day of which we can not leave campus. In an average week this is what our 45 minutes is used for: 3 out of the 5 days was a conference either with administrators, other teachers, or parents, and 2 days were spent in room working or running off papers, etc. Some weeks, we had 2-3 weeks with no time for planning spent in our room, they would all be conferences during the 45 minutes. Many times on my 45 minute work-time, I was tutoring a student.

We don't have 15 minute coffee breaks like many in the business world. I also tutored for 45 minutes after school Mon, Wed, and Thurs every week (for no pay). And faculty meeting was every Tuesday for about an hour after school. That left only Friday where I could leave school at 3:40.

So even without the after-school tutoring and faculty meeting, our required day was 7:40-3:40. Isn't that 8 hours?

Maybe I should have looked into teaching in another state if their hours are less. I'm just confused.

 

[Darian]

Wishydoo -

I've got one word for you - Vouchers. The poor teachers are overworked and seriously underpaid. Yet here in CA, education spending keeps rising. So where is all the money going? Its not being spent on books and supplies, as almost every poster to this thread can testify.

While my DW was a teacher she saw some pretty spooky things. Like why are there more administrators in the school district than teachers? And why do they get paid on average TWICE a teacher's salary? I can't speak to what goes on at every school, but at a local elementary school here the new priciple didn't like his office so he spent about $30,000 redecorating it with imported Italian sofas, new paint, wallpaper and expensive carpet. 6 months later a new principle took his place, didn't like the decor and spent another $15,000 redecorating to suite her personal tastes. Thats $45k at ONE elementary school spent on ONE office. I would not be surprised if this went on all over the state.

Bring up questions about these sort of actions and be prepared to be accused of "not caring about the kids." I'm not anti-union. In fact, I'm a former Teamster. Until there is fiscal responsibility in public school administration, there won't be an answer. Fire everyone above the local principle and there will be enough money saved to buy textbooks for every kid in every school and plate the toilet seats with solid gold.

Darian

 

[jjskribs]

I have just received my budget information for next year. I will have $12.00 per student to buy everything that I will need for my classroom next year. This includes every paper clip, piece of paper, glue stick , crayon etc. that I will need. That translates to a whopping total of $276.00.
I will agonize for hours over how best to spend this money. I'll search catalogs to find the best "bargains" and as usual I will wind up buying hundreds of dollars of supplies out of my own pocket.
For those of you who continue to take pleasure in "teacher bashing" I would beg you to follow me around for one week.You have no idea the pressure and constant stress that teachers today are subject to.
Of course there are "bad" teachers just as there are "bad" doctors and lawyers but the dedicated compassionate ones FAR OUTWEIGH the "bad" ones. Yet no profession is shown less respect than today's teachers.
So for those of you who continue to think that teacher's are overpaid and underworked please spend a week in my classroom and then follow me home and see the amount of time I spend every night and every weekend on schoolwork. I guarantee that you will have a different perspective of what it's like to be a teacher in today's world.

 

[gemmie214]

An FYI. I am an educator in MA. The highest paying school district in MA. is Boston Public. The teachers there do not have a starting salary of anything even CLOSE to 43 a year. You may work your way up to that but it takes years, a masters degree and to be honest most have to have a duel Masters in both regular and special education OR another specialty like language, computers. reading ect.
I also have a problem with the expectation that teachers should pay for suplies out of their own pocket. Does anyone expect any other employed person to do this? This is something a LOT of teachers do for the children at the expense of their own families.

 

[Wishydoo]

I haven't seen teacher bashing here.

And my issue is with some of the things the teachers have been doing in light of the upcoming school budget vote, not with their wages.

I also see how things are very different depending on where you live.

 

[Darian]

Originally posted by jjskribs
I have just received my budget information for next year. I will have $12.00 per student to buy everything that I will need for my classroom next year. This includes every paper clip, piece of paper, glue stick , crayon etc. that I will need. That translates to a whopping total of $276.00.
I will agonize for hours over how best to spend this money. I'll search catalogs to find the best "bargains" and as usual I will wind up buying hundreds of dollars of supplies out of my own pocket.

My heart goes out to you. As a teacher you have one of the most important jobs there are. I don't know where that other poster got the 5 1/2 hour day thing. Maybe it was simply a typo? The teachers I know are dedicated people, hard working people.

At these school board meetings the salaries of administrators needs to be brought up... they are the problem, and their mismanagment of the schools... not the teachers.