Convince me DVC isn't a money pit

[mickeyfan0805]

The piece that has been mentioned, but that I will make as clear as possible, is that DVC cannot, legally, increase the number of points used to stay at a resort. All they can do reallocate the cost among sizes, season and days. If you make a current purchase based on staying weeknights in the off-season, you may find that you don't have enough if they reallocate down the road. However, your visiting habits will change in unforseen ways down the road. I would agree that if you bump up the minimum point need you calculate by 15-20 points, you could probably cover visits in the forseeable future.

 

[Dean]

DVC isn't for everyone. I would only buy to use at DVC resorts and not for mostly weekends. It seems like you're looking S-F and if so, you might want to buy a cushion of 10-20% of points though you're likely much safer now than before the re-allocation. There is no guarantee you can buy additional points in the future and certainly no guarantee you can find what you need at a reasonable price. Fees are high but not unreasonably so if you stick to these principles, esp if you're doing mostly weekdays.

 

[Brian Noble]

Is it a money pit? Yes, yes it's a money pit, for a couple reasons.

First, most people make comparisons based on studios. But, if you ever make the mistake of trying a 1BR "just this once", you'll never go back. Boom, you'll need more points.

Second, you plan to do only weeknights, maybe only in Value season, but for one reason or another you decide to add on a weekend here or there, or maybe change seasons as your kids get older and it's harder to get out of school. Boom, you'll need more points.

Third, you are pretty much guaranteeing that you are coming to WDW at least every other year. And, for most families, lodging isn't even 1/2 the total trip cost. Tickets for a week? $1000, give or take. Food for a week? Another $800, give or take. Add another couple hundred for all the miscellaneous little expenses here and there. And, if you have to fly down, that's *another* $1000, or more, but even if you drive there are costs there too.

At the end of the day, DVC isn't a money-saving venture so much as it is an investment in your future vacations. You might save a little money on those vacations, but they're still vacations.

That said, if you'd be coming down and spending the money anyway, and you plan to do that for the forseeable future, DVC is probably a pretty good bet. A studio is about the cost of a Moderate (but what most consider a nicer room in a nicer resort), and a 1BR works out to be about the cost of a Deluxe (but is a *much* nicer room). About the only way it doesn't work for you is if you sometimes go Value or (heaven forbid) stay offsite. At that point, it gets pretty hard to justify.

 

[DenLo]

The more I think about, even going to WDW is a money pit. It takes lots of money to do anything. But it still has magic.

 

[littlestar]

I own both Hilton and Disney and as of lately I have been able to trade into DVC via Hilton (RCI) twice in the past 9 months. Hilton on the re-sale market is cheap compared to DVC which has also dropped in value due to the recession.

I've been reading that Hilton points work great for grabbing DVC through RCI. I guess if a person liked Hilton's locations and was somewhat flexible on DVC trades, they'd be better off buying Hilton points for the money. We're going to try Hilton's new Parc Soleil resort in January - an owner gave me a great deal on a 1 bedroom.

 

[robertdangelo]

DVC members often say... "we wish we'd done it sooner!" It's often said... DVC isn't an investment(monitarily) but IMHO... it's a priceless investment in my family's quality leisure time for years to come! Life's too short to not enjoy all that Disney has to offer, as often as you can! We just added on at BLT... we're in our 40's and it's nice to know that our daughter will have this when we're gone!

Bob

 

[mikeandkarla]

no doubt a money pit. However, if you take 1 to 2 family vacations a year to WDW or elsewhwere, it is money earmarked for family vacation already. CAUTION-- Addonitis is a rare known disease of most DVCmembers

 

[rentayenta]

DVC members often say... "we wish we'd done it sooner!" It's often said... DVC isn't an investment(monitarily) but IMHO... it's a priceless investment in my family's quality leisure time for years to come! Life's too short to not enjoy all that Disney has to offer, as often as you can! We just added on at BLT... we're in our 40's and it's nice to know that our daughter will have this when we're gone!

Bob

We love Disney, always have, and cannot see why that would end. I am 40 and cannot remember a time I didn't love it. Before DVC we vacationed at Disney, either Disneyland or WDW, at least every other year. We would spend a good $6K for WDW and that's at the POR with "free" dining. After 2 trips like that, we realized that DVC was right for us. As far as dues, we pay lots of dues and maintenance on a variety of things, cars and homes are the biggies that come to mind.

 

[Deb & Bill]

no doubt a money pit. However, if you take 1 to 2 family vacations a year to WDW or elsewhwere, it is money earmarked for family vacation already. CAUTION-- Addonitis is a rare known disease of most DVCmembers

The cure for addonitis is a good look at what you pay Disney every year in dues.

 

[Mommydar]

I think I am well convinced DVC is good for our family. We have three daughters, so as a family of five, we will always need at least two rooms. POR is about our only affordable option, but an Alligator Bayou room is going to get too small too fast. With all the specials, we are still spending $3000 or so each time we go. DVC will pay for itself in six to seven years, I figure. You are right about the fees - we pay fees for everything. I will be sure to share this thread with DH when we are officially set to buy.

 

[jar]

Checkout this spreadsheet. http://www.mousesavers.com/DVCvsCash2008.xls It is how I decided to purchase a DVC membership. You can change the number to meet your needs.

Great spreadsheet! When we bought a few years ago, I did a similar spreadsheet with a slightly different approach but comparable assumptions of a 4% discount/interest rate, 4% room increases and 3% maintenance increases (and similarly concluded that even by the most conservative assumptions, DVC comes out way ahead if you go every 2-3 years or more).

I've also done a rough estimation of what I would have spent on accommodations using my points from my Disney trips since 2006 (either me or family members I've given points to) and then discounted it back to the time of purchase and also discounted MF to the time of purchase as well. I've concluded that in just 3 years, I'm close to halfway to recouping the DVC investment of $85/point.

 

[Jason@dvcstore]

We love Disney, and we are heavily considering buying 150 points or so resale. However, as I look at point increases between 2009-2010, I grow wary that I might find myself having to buy another 10-20 a year just to do a 5 night stay at AKV. When you buy 10-20, you are paying premium at $90 + a point, or another 900 - 1800 a year. I am concerned that with the maintenance fees, I might be better off just renting when a special comes up every year. What do you guys think. Do you think if we just traveled with the specials we'd do okay?

Thought I would share the experience I have from some clients. This scenario is not for everybody and only recommend for a small few. I have some clients who buy (pay cash) double the points they want to own, rent out half of them (typically not through the disboards as they feel they can get $12 to $13 elsewhere), and they plan to sell after they use for 10 years.

Example: Buyer buys two 200 point listings at Saratoga Springs for $68 per point and closing costs of $475 on each one. Total cost is $28,150. The dues on those points for 10 years will say is $17,360 (although that is simply taking 400 points x $5.00 per point so will be more). Total cost with dues is $45,510 (again most likely will be more).

They rent out 200 of the points each year and we say for only $10 per point. This gives them back $20,000.

Their plan is to sell the 400 points after 10 years and expect to sell for same price they purchased (no guarantee they will do that). After you take out the commission they pay along with the $70 to Disney (this may change over 10 years) they then put back $24,410 in their pocket.

Spent $45,510 over ten years and after the 10 years received back $44,410. This people feel they spent around $1,100 total (number for example but could be more and could be less) and were able to use 200 points each year for their vacations.

Again these clients are rare and typically come about because they call and say "my friend is doing this." For those people who want to spend the time to rent out the 200 points each, have the cash to buy double the points at the time of purchase and for those who don't will hold onto the DVC forever. This clients typically think once their children reach a certain age they will then change how they vacation so will sell. Also their is the risk that there is no guarantee how much DVC will sell for in the future.

Also be advised that Disney really doesn't want anyone renting out their points. They really don't want anyone "profiting" from a product they are selling. They would prefer that you simply use the points for your own use so if that bothers you then not for you as well.

Hope that made sense.

Jason

 

[Dean]

Thought I would share the experience I have from some clients. This scenario is not for everybody and only recommend for a small few. I have some clients who buy (pay cash) double the points they want to own, rent out half of them (typically not through the disboards as they feel they can get $12 to $13 elsewhere), and they plan to sell after they use for 10 years.

Example: Buyer buys two 200 point listings at Saratoga Springs for $68 per point and closing costs of $475 on each one. Total cost is $28,150. The dues on those points for 10 years will say is $17,360 (although that is simply taking 400 points x $5.00 per point so will be more). Total cost with dues is $45,510 (again most likely will be more).

They rent out 200 of the points each year and we say for only $10 per point. This gives them back $20,000.

Their plan is to sell the 400 points after 10 years and expect to sell for same price they purchased (no guarantee they will do that). After you take out the commission they pay along with the $70 to Disney (this may change over 10 years) they then put back $24,410 in their pocket.

Spent $45,510 over ten years and after the 10 years received back $44,410. This people feel they spent around $1,100 total (number for example but could be more and could be less) and were able to use 200 points each year for their vacations.

Again these clients are rare and typically come about because they call and say "my friend is doing this." For those people who want to spend the time to rent out the 200 points each, have the cash to buy double the points at the time of purchase and for those who don't will hold onto the DVC forever. This clients typically think once their children reach a certain age they will then change how they vacation so will sell. Also their is the risk that there is no guarantee how much DVC will sell for in the future.

Also be advised that Disney really doesn't want anyone renting out their points. They really don't want anyone "profiting" from a product they are selling. They would prefer that you simply use the points for your own use so if that bothers you then not for you as well.

Hope that made sense.

Jason

I don't think DVC cares per se, it's the complaining phone calls from those that see things for rent they can't reserve that gets them I think. Even with the lower prices that's still not a very good plan financially if you take into account risk and return of principle, which one should. Before the downturn that plan wouldn't get you 5%, maybe with the lower prices it'll get you 8% if you do so using the cheaper resorts to buy currently (SSR, OKW, VB, HH), less for other resorts. IMO this is only a good plan if you can use all the points at least part of the time but rent off years.

 

[javamom]

I got a giggle out of the title of this thread. IMO DVC isn't any more, or less, a money pit than Disney already is!


Basically, if you are going to go at least every other year, and can forsee wanting to continue this over the decades to come, then buy as many points as you can use. Although I would probably buy 2 smaller contracts as opposed to 1 big one.

Enjoy!

 

[bangzoom6877]

Of course it's a money pit, like anything else! DH and I thought things through thoroughly before we bought (I'm sure many here remember all of my annoying questions!!! ). We bought because we saw ourselves in the following predicament on our July 2008 trip:

-DH couldn't stand sleeping in a double-size bed at Pop for 5 nights while touring parks, and neither could I. We're small people (I'm a size 4 and he wears 32 jeans) but we are used to our Queen-size bed at home...what can I say, we're bed snobs!
-DH and I agreed that the right way to do Disney (for us) is to spend 10 nights there rather than 5, and have a few non-park days to relax in the pool, check out DTD and the Boardwalk, etc. We are teachers and have small children, we travel in the summer, so this works for us very well.
-DH and I both loved the convenience of staying on property, and the feel of always being in the middle of the Disney magic, especially for the kids.
-DH asked me where we would have to stay in order to get a room with a queen bed and still be on property, and I told him the cheapest would be the Swan/Dolphin because of the teacher discount. But I also informed him we can't get the DDP there, and he asked me what about if we still want the DDP (we loved it)? I told him how much a Disney-owned deluxe resort costs, and also the family suite at All-Star Music and he was shocked. He asked me about "this Disney Vacation Club thing". He asked our neighbors, who had bought at SSR. He was starting to be more and more convinced.
-We finally found a vacation we could both enjoy over and over again, and one that was also perfect for our children as they get older, a place we knew we would never grow tired of or be bored with since there is so much to do, and that place is Disney World. I have always enjoyed cruises since I was a teen, and my DH loves them too but he has no desire to do a cruise every year but he wants to go to WDW every other year and I could go to WDW any time so that was perfect for me too!
-Our kids were only 1 and 3 back in 2008 on that trip, so we have their whole childhood to take them to Disney.

So, we decided we would like to go to WDW every other July and stay for 10 nights. We drive down from NYC so 10 nights are perfect for us (we're also teachers and have the summer off with our kids). We choose to go less often but for a longer trip. We looked at point charts and figured that in order to go for 10 nights every other year and stay in a 1-bedroom, we would need 150 points at BWV. This of course was once we decided on BWV, which was based on close proximity to two theme parks as well as lots of things to do there, plus the lower points needed for a standard view (I don't need a pool view or a view of the BW, and DH could care less about views as long as he can sleep at night). We decided to stay in a 1-bedroom on each trip so that now while the kids are still little and going to bed early, DH and I will have our own space to relax and not have to go to bed at 9:00 (even though some nights we want to!). And in years from now when the boys are teenagers I am sure they will be putting us to bed and stay up later than we do in their own space!

We have our first trip as DVC members booked for July 2010, and we can't wait to go! It would cost us close to $4,000 to stay at a deluxe resort for 10 nights this July! And we would have definitely done that based on our preferences. I'll also add that I can't stand exterior corridors in hotels...and I know it is relatively safe at WDW, but I worry more about bugs getting into the room! It cost us $12,000 for our DVC resale, and maintenance fees annually. This is well worth it to us. It also enabled us to get the DDP without having to buy park tickets through Disney. I was able to purchase our park tickets through Undercover Tourist (discount site) before the price increase in August, and saved us some $$$. Of course, being able to add the DDP is a current perk that can disappear, but at least for this year, this saved us a little more money.

So right now the plan is to go to WDW in July 2010, a cruise with the kids in 2011, and back to WDW in July 2012. Then, after each Disney trip we can decide what kind of vacation we would like to take in the year in between. By the time my younger son is out of high school (he's only 2 now), we will have completed 8 WDW vacations as DVC members. After that the boys can join us if they'd like to, and if not, DH and I will enjoy WDW as "adults only"!

So, bottom line is, we have enough points for a 10-night trip in a 1-bedroom every other year. If we ever change our minds and want to go every year we can do so in a studio for the same 10 nights. We bought a DVC membership, intending to use it only for WDW trips to our home resort. We always book vacations a year or so in advance, so the 11-month booking window works perfectly for us. We are also making the most of our membership by using it for DVC resorts. Other uses are not so economical, IMO.

Good luck with your decision!!

 

[fupresti]

I just recently purchased into VGC and yes, the sticker shock is a ittle much, but a lot of that purchase is knowing we are locked into vacationing. What I mean by that, is it is no longer optional. For sanity and well being we decided to commit ourselves to making sure we take at least one week of vacation a year. I mean, have you seen what it costs to stay on site at Disneyland alone? And with all of the resorts at WDW, the new one at Disneyland, Hilton Head, Vero Beach, Hawaii, National Harbor and probably others, we have no shortage of great options available. I mean, I have Disney vacations planned through 2013 and that was only one day of planning!

Like others have said, if you visit at least once every 2 years, prefer deluxe accommodations and enjoy knowing that you have the flexibility to stay at WDW or others, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Mommydar]

For those who got a chuckle out of title and are saying of course it is a money pit...

I think you missed my initial point. My point is once I buy the initial set of points for a five night vacation, will I have to keep buying more and more points in the future to continue that because of point increases? Of course anything and everything beyond the necessities in life is a money pit, but I don't want to end up with something that I am going to have to keep pumping an additional 1000 - 2000 every other year into beyond the maintenance fees in order to keep that amount of vacation. I was wondering if people have to keep adding in additional points beyond the initial purchase.

 

[Deb & Bill]

For those who got a chuckle out of title and are saying of course it is a money pit...

I think you missed my initial point. My point is once I buy the initial set of points for a five night vacation, will I have to keep buying more and more points in the future to continue that because of point increases? Of course anything and everything beyond the necessities in life is a money pit, but I don't want to end up with something that I am going to have to keep pumping an additional 1000 - 2000 every other year into beyond the maintenance fees in order to keep that amount of vacation. I was wondering if people have to keep adding in additional points beyond the initial purchase.

Only if you want more. Your point needs should be relatively static for the entire length of the contract, other than point reallocations from time to time. Might raise one night and lower another. But dues keep going up every year.

 

[javamom]

For those who got a chuckle out of title and are saying of course it is a money pit...

I think you missed my initial point. My point is once I buy the initial set of points for a five night vacation, will I have to keep buying more and more points in the future to continue that because of point increases? Of course anything and everything beyond the necessities in life is a money pit, but I don't want to end up with something that I am going to have to keep pumping an additional 1000 - 2000 every other year into beyond the maintenance fees in order to keep that amount of vacation. I was wondering if people have to keep adding in additional points beyond the initial purchase.

You should not have to pump more money above maint fees, unless you decide that you don't have enough points to use with banking and borrowing options exhausted. I would only caution against purchasing "exactly" the correct amount for a "specific" stay, that way if points get reallocated in the decades to come, you won't find yourself annoyingly just a few points shy of that "specific" stay.

You could end up with an annoying too many points for the same reason, as a reallocation doesn't always mean that your "specific" stay will go up, it could go down.

 

[Mommydar]

So would 150 - 160 at AKV, alternating 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom every year for a Sunday - Thursday stay be enough over the course of ownership. Also, how long can you bank points and can you keep banking and banking? For instance, let's say I need to use only 100 for a 2009 trip, but I have 100 banked for 2008. Can I use the 2008, and bank the 2009, and in a sense maintain a surplus.