Contemporary Resort

[Lauralei]

I have a question that my DH and I don't know but I'm sure all you people in the know know. What is the big deal with having a home resort? Is it just the booking window or is there more to it than that? We are wondering because we own SSR, but for the last 2 years we booked WLV and just came back yesterday (2/23/08) from AKV(which was great, but I'll look for another topic to tell about that). Anyway, I booked at the 7 month window for past two years for Presidents Week and have had no problem getting what I want. That's why my DH and I are thinking that there must be more to your "home resort" than just the booking window. Please fill us in.

 

[Chuck S]

There have been at least two "officially" announced DVCs that were not built. Eagle Pines and Newport Beach, CA.

NYC was not officially announced by DVC, but other "official" Disney sources were talking about a Hotel renovation in NYC with timeshare suites. Colorado was mentioned as a possible location, but never was built (I don;t think the land was purchased) Newport Beach did have land purchased,which was sold to Marriott, and a Marriott timeshare now occupies that location.

A sizable portion of the Vero Beach property was also cancelled.

 

[TisBit]

The big difference in announcing CRV now is that there are a LOT of people out there that would wait to buy there. Even if you look at the small number of DVC people on the DIS boards, there are a decent number that are holding out for CRV. Also, CRV will be less "phased in" than the other resorts. Even AKV converted rooms pretty quickly after it was announced to put them in the market, before Kidany was even on the way. The mantra of DVC is, why wait when you can buy now. Even the DL resort is being marketed towards existing DVC owners, trying to get people to buy NOW at WDW, so they will have a decent chance of getting in early at DL. It would be best to announce CRV with little lag time between announcing and selling commences...maybe 6 months to a year....than as floors are completed (interiors) they can be released...without flooding the market and also without stalling the market, with people "holding out" for that location.

Hawaii is a different beast. Very few WDW DVC owners will be looking at purchasing big contracts in HI....mainly because most people who own DVC are from the eastcoast and midwest....so travel is not easy, but it does look like a great option. Now, many people form the West Coast will be interested in Hawaii and it could spur sales, just being an option in the DVC book.

 

[simzac]

From my perspective, what the OP has posted sounds great. Under this plan, this would add more rooms into inventory at the 7 month window for members, albeit no one would no how many at any time of the year. Legalities aside, this just sounds like something I would like as an owner. Could also see them doing the same thing with the Tree House Villas. JMO

 

[AKV707]

From my perspective, what the OP has posted sounds great. Under this plan, this would add more rooms into inventory at the 7 month window for members, albeit no one would no how many at any time of the year. Legalities aside, this just sounds like something I would like as an owner. Could also see them doing the same thing with the Tree House Villas. JMO

Not necessarily. The question is what will Disney do with all of the CR points that they own that are not used at the 7 month window. As has been posted, they could tie up reservations at the other DVC resorts, making it more difficult for us owners to make reservations at the 7 month window. I personally think this is a terrible idea and it could be devastating to DVC. That is, of course, if this becomes reality.

 

[tjkraz]

As has been posted, they could tie up reservations at the other DVC resorts, making it more difficult for us owners to make reservations at the 7 month window. I personally think this is a terrible idea and it could be devastating to DVC. That is, of course, if this becomes reality.

"More difficult" is a relative term. Based upon posts here, it sure seems like an awful lot of people would have CR at the top of their 7-month preference list. While it's true that for every CR room booked at 7 months, Disney would be able to remove a room from inventory at SSR, OKW, BWV, BCV, etc., that seems like a trade-off most people would be comfortable making.

Owners would still have their 4-month priority at their home resort.

Legalities aside, I just don't see how it would be "devastating" to DVC. It's simply trading availability at current resorts for another highly-popular destination.

 

[BroganMc]

"More difficult" is a relative term.
SNIP

Legalities aside, I just don't see how it would be "devastating" to DVC. It's simply trading availability at current resorts for another highly-popular destination.

Just to play Devil's advocate, what if by owning all of CRV Disney decides to give up say 40% of their rooms and put 50% of all other resort rooms on a hold status for CRO. They can do this before any owners can simply because they have first access to the reservation computers. (No need to call in and wait for an operator.) So at 9:01 am 7 months out, suddenly there are X number less rooms available at other resorts for members. Distributed evenly amongst the resorts that 10% (in addition to the number CRO already gets) less rooms. So for VWL, there go 18 rooms; BCV loses 20 rooms, BWV loses 50 rooms; AKV loses 45 rooms; OKW loses 70 rooms and SSR loses 85 rooms. And because Disney needs to offer an equal amount of rooms for rentals, those are gone in every category.

In the case of a popular season and/or smaller resort it could make or break demand vs availability.

It's kinda the same thing as Disney reserving an entire hour of CRT so they can accommodate a convention of kids. Being the largest owner, with an inside resource, they can control what supply is left to the general public.

It won't affect home resort owners. But we're talking non-home resort owners trying to book in the first come first serve booking window.

 

[macosx]

*cough* *cough* Eagle Pines ....although it was never officially canceled

There have been at least two "officially" announced DVCs that were not built. Eagle Pines and Newport Beach, CA.

Thank you! Shows you what I know, but I'm always learning. Here's what I was able to dig up (looked at disney and didn't find the original pr press release), but these look legit:

http://www.mouseplanet.com/dtp/dvc/4_Resorts/new.htm

Press Release
Eagle Pines Golf Course

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 23, 2001--Disney Vacation Development, Inc., operators of Disney Vacation Club (DVC) -- Disney's innovative vacation ownership program -- announced today that it will expand its timeshare resort presence at the Walt Disney World Resort in Florida (subject to obtaining necessary approvals) by building a seventh DVC property. This latest development for the growing Disney Vacation Club product marks the Company's largest ownership resort project to date.

The announcement heralds a time of exciting growth for Disney Vacation Club, which now boasts a membership of nearly 60,000 member families from over 60 countries.

The proposed 600-unit ownership development is slated to occupy a 61-acre site along the award-winning Disney's Eagle Pines Golf Course at Walt Disney World Resort. All rooms will feature either a pool, golf course or forest view. Initial plans call for the construction of a main Inn building encompassing a check-in area; accommodations; restaurant/lounge; theme pool with feature slide; retail space; arcade; common living room area and a health club, as well as Villa buildings containing vacation home accommodations. Development will begin this fall with an estimated opening in Spring/Summer 2004.

Note, the "(subject to obtaining necessary approvals)" escape phrase, so I assume they didn't receive the necessary approval from some government or corporate entity. Since it seems they never officially cancelled it, it may still be on the drawing boards for future consideration, but with all the current activity, it may be years before they need to go back to this site. Would be interesting to see any official updates to what happened to Eagle Pines.

Looks like the Newport Beach project is considered official as well, but I was unable to find first hand announcement, though it's documented on Wikipedia. I guess Disney isn't batting 100%, but they have a high average, and I'm optimistic Hawaii will go thru as planned. Letdowns from cancellations really hurt Disney and DVC in the long run.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_Vacation_Club
Cancelled projects
A project in Newport Coast, California began in March 1994, followed by rumors of resort plans in Beaver Creek, Colorado. In August 1995 an issue of Wired magazine reported that Disney Vacation Club was considering a site at Times Square in New York City, part of the 42nd Street Project near the New Amsterdam Theater and ABC studios. Neither the Beaver Creek nor the Times Square project ever came to fruition.

In February 1997, Disney announced that they were canceling the plans for Newport Coast resort and 11 months later Marriott announced a project on Disney's former site which was expected to open in June 2000.

On July 23, 2001, Disney issued a press release[2] announcing the construction of an un-named Vacation Club resort at Walt Disney World's Eagle Pines golf course. The architectural style was going to be a tribute to early-20th century Florida resort style, with its Moorish and Spanish influences. Opening was scheduled for 2004 and 2005, but the post-September 11 vacation slump derailed the plans for this resort. Disney instead opted to use the infrastructure at the floundering Disney Institute to serve as the hub for the resort that became Saratoga Springs.

http://allearsnet.com/acc/faq_dvcgolf.htm

What happened to Eagle Pines DVC?

 

[nuts]

Well, interesting speculation by all. I doubt Disney wants to mess everyone up. Could they? Sure. Would they? No, that would be stupid. Drive away business. Whatever they finally have decided I am sure it will have no impact to us beyond any other resort. Further, I am sure those of you who want a piece of the 'C' will be able to purchase. Lots of ideas float in conference rooms (even stupid ones ).

 

[simzac]

"More difficult" is a relative term. Based upon posts here, it sure seems like an awful lot of people would have CR at the top of their 7-month preference list. While it's true that for every CR room booked at 7 months, Disney would be able to remove a room from inventory at SSR, OKW, BWV, BCV, etc., that seems like a trade-off most people would be comfortable making.

Owners would still have their 4-month priority at their home resort.

Legalities aside, I just don't see how it would be "devastating" to DVC. It's simply trading availability at current resorts for another highly-popular destination.

I agree totally with this post. I don't see anyway that Disney would take away any more rooms from the other resorts above what is reserved by members at CR. The only members upset by the possiblity of this scenario happening are those who had their hearts set on owning at CRV. JMO

 

[spiceycat]

Still think it will be mixed use.

we get half, and CR gets the other half.

problem is which half - want the MK side!!!! but CR should be happy with the other side because it is closer to the convention.

someone else reported that once the South wing was completely - the North wing would be 100% DVC. the South wing would be for the convention. but only if what they are trying is successfully. Otherwise DVC gets the south wing too.

really think the fight is over who gets what part. with both sides trying for the MK side.... well the fight will go on until the annoucement.
Maybe afterwards too.

but any part of the CRV will work for me - although would love the MK side!

the Building really looks like those old plans - thanks Tink10!!!!

 

[tomandrobin]

the Building really looks like those old plans - thanks Tink10!!!!

I think it looks "Exactly" like the plans found by Tink10. Even the little pool house/refreshment bar.

 

[spiceycat]

someone was bringing up the old -'CRO can't rent DVC villas'

well all I have to say show me onetime where there are DVC villas to rent and NO deluxe resorts.

never seem it happen. DVC villa are generally at 90 to 95% occupany - while the WDW resorts are at 80 to 90%.

now it might - but I have never seem it.

if you don't believe look for yourself - or go look on the resort boards. every week - someone is asking when they could rent a DVC villa from CRO. they asked CRO who told them none available at this point.

they don't want to buy DVC - they only want to rent one - and don't want to rent from members.

 

[Chuck S]

"More difficult" is a relative term. Based upon posts here, it sure seems like an awful lot of people would have CR at the top of their 7-month preference list. While it's true that for every CR room booked at 7 months, Disney would be able to remove a room from inventory at SSR, OKW, BWV, BCV, etc., that seems like a trade-off most people would be comfortable making.

Owners would still have their 4-month priority at their home resort.

Legalities aside, I just don't see how it would be "devastating" to DVC. It's simply trading availability at current resorts for another highly-popular destination.

Actually, if they make the point requirement per night high, and Disney retains the points, they could remove several rooms from inventory at the other resorts.

For instance, say a studio at CRV is twice the number of points per night as SSR, and Disney owns all the points at CRV. Is Disney simply going to say "Oh, no one wanted to pay cash for the CRV room, I guess I'll let these points expire." Of course not, they will reserve two studio rooms at SSR for those points, and try to rent them out. Even if they only rent one, and let one set empty, they are break even, assuming the cash rental prices are within the same range.

But if Disney were to actually consider this scheme, wouldn't it work out better for them to simply put cash suites at CRV, and let us trade in through the Disney Collection like they do with other resorts? What would be the advantage for Disney in making it a DVC resort, if they want to hold all the points? That way it would also be easier to increase or decrease (yeah, right) the number of points with the ebb and flow of the economy, as Disney collection points are renegotiated every year AND they could charge a trade fee or additional resort fee if they wanted to, including charging for internet services, as it is not free at regular WDW resorts for DVC members.

 

[AKV707]

Good point Chuck. Another reason why this idea makes no sense.

 

[pilferk]

Maybe someone else can speak to this, but...

My impression is that, to become part of the DVC system, they would need to have a POS, Declaration, etc on file with the county and state, right?

My other impression is that by creating a "time share" property, they have to abide by some real estate rules, including those involving discrimination, preferential sales, and collusion.

I THINK (but someone with more legal knowledge on the subject than I have) that selling all the points, to one entity MIGHT violate those rules, simply because they would be required to offer up sales of some units "to the public", on an equal, first come, first serve basis.

Can anyone confirm or refute that?

 

[pilferk]

A single owner entity can not, by definition, be a timeshare as there is no one to "share" with. If "Disney" retained all points, then at 7 months, they could scoop up ALL DVC rooms not reserved during the priority booking window at every other resorts. All they'd have to do is set the point requirement per night at CRV very high, thus making a huge number of points a part of the resort, and they would own all the points. So they'd have plenty of points to book all the other DVC resorts at 7 months, leaving those high point rooms at CRV for DVC members at 7 months...making DVC basically worthless during the 7 month window.

I don;t see how they could legally declare the units into DVC, and have one owner of the points on the contract.

Thanks Chuck. That was a much clearer, and more succinct, version of the point I was trying to make.

 

[tjkraz]

Actually, if they make the point requirement per night high, and Disney retains the points, they could remove several rooms from inventory at the other resorts.

For instance, say a studio at CRV is twice the number of points per night as SSR, and Disney owns all the points at CRV. Is Disney simply going to say "Oh, no one wanted to pay cash for the CRV room, I guess I'll let these points expire." Of course not, they will reserve two studio rooms at SSR for those points, and try to rent them out. Even if they only rent one, and let one set empty, they are break even, assuming the cash rental prices are within the same range.

Let me re-phrase.

If someone uses 300 SSR points to book at the CR, then CRO gets 300 points worth of SSR rooms to rent. It's still an even exchange.

But if Disney were to actually consider this scheme, wouldn't it work out better for them to simply put cash suites at CRV, and let us trade in through the Disney Collection like they do with other resorts? What would be the advantage for Disney in making it a DVC resort, if they want to hold all the points? That way it would also be easier to increase or decrease (yeah, right) the number of points with the ebb and flow of the economy, as Disney collection points are renegotiated every year AND they could charge a trade fee or additional resort fee if they wanted to, including charging for internet services, as it is not free at regular WDW resorts for DVC members.

I agree that would seem to be a more sensible way to go. Not only would DVC have more control of the points but they get to collect the $95 cash fee everytime someone books. If the points were reasonable (i.e. maybe 15-20% higher than the comparable BCV room as opposed to the horribly inflated prices we see now for the Poly and GF), I think many members would jump at the opportunity even with the $95 fee.

Is Disney going to go the route of making it DVC and buying all the points? Probably not. But like I said a few pages ago, the thing that intrigues me about this is the concept is so off-the-wall that I believe that it was a plan actually put under consideration. I can't see someone sitting in their basement inventing this stuff just so they can get the Internet rumor mill spinning.

That's my two-cents.

 

[nuts]

Let me re-phrase.
I can't see someone sitting in their basement inventing this stuff just so they can get the Internet rumor mill spinning.
That's my two-cents.

I am laughing cuz I am sitting in my basement on the Internet! (Hmmmm, maybe I dreamt the whole thing....my wife swears I am losing it )

 

[lisareniff]

Ahhh... come on. We all know your just a little Nuts! ...