Considering a new camera??? Do you sell online? ~ READ THIS FIRST!!!

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

I'm going to give all the newbies out there a little advise. Its a little long, but it can make you THINK, and it can make you MONEY!!! Isn't it worth a few minutes of your time?

The reason for this is kinda basic. Its a rant/advise combined into one.

I have a second business selling on Craigslist. I was previously an ebay powerseller as well, and I sell on several sites. The single biggest complaint I have is PICTURES! Primarily when I am BUYING; you know... shopping... browsing... late at night... wasting time...
Lets say I want to purchase a nice point and shoot camera. I go to ebay. Some stupid dufas is selling a NICE P&S camera. He has a GREAT camera. He has a GREAT price. But the guy/gal isn't too bright. They use a DANG CELLPHONE to take the pictures!!! (Hold your ears while I scream...) So I am thinking... you HAVE in your hands a GREAT camera. WTH are you SELLING IT??? Do they want to make money? Well yeah. Are they going to with a cellphone??? NO!!! Not at least like they want. The bottom line is people make decisions based on what they see. if they see a gray and amber saturated picture, thats blurry, and too far away to see any details, they go elsewhere. OR they put in a MINIMUM bid and hope to get it for pennies. If another seller puts the EXACT same item on and they use a REAL camera (not necessarily an expensive DSLR, but at least a GOOD point and shoot) their item will bring at least twice the price.

So WHY would you spend the extra money for a better camera?
Why NOT use your cute little cellphone???

Lets consider the next several pictures.

First the pictures taken with a VERY NICE but smaller sized Olympus Stylus 410.

The above diecast car is worth around $150 loose, $200 mint on card.
the above pictures were taken with a 4 megapixel, 3X optical point and shoot. I'm gonna take a second here and say that those pictures were the best 3 out of about 30 pictures I took of the same car with the same camera. I used a tripod, and all the settings were exact for the perfect picture. My buyer still would ask "are there any chips?" "is it scratched?"
Far worse, is that they don't SEE the two or three chips and buy it THINKING it's perfectly mint. (As I did). My seller ALMOST got negative feedback when the "mint car" above arrived with little chips. The seller was an older lady with poor eyesight, and I let it slide (after a few angry emails) primarily because I wanted a shot at future rare cars that she alone might have.

Now, lets see some pictures of the SAME car with no adjustments at all, by my new Pentax K-x DSLR...

Now it's as equally important to point out that the above pictures are the VERY FIRST pictures with my new camera. I havent learned the real pro tricks just yet. In essence, they will only get better with experience.

The above pictures leave NO ROOM for guessing. No room for arguments! The buyer can NOT say you didn't represent your item correctly!!! they can NOT say it was worse than described. (We'll, they CAN, but they would be wrong in doing so!) The second set of photos would bring a LOT more money, because the buyer knows EXACTLY what he is getting!!! Add that to a thorough description, and fair shipping rates (for ebay) and you have a TOP-DOLLAR auction!!!
I both watched AND bid on a heck of a lot of camera auctions as of lately. The auctions that had crappy little cellphone pictures did NOT bring NEARLY as much money!!!
I refused to bid a reasonable amount of my hard earned money for an auction that had a crappy little cellphone picture. Sure, I threw out several lowball bids, in hopes of getting something CHEAP from a seller who didn't know any better, but I reserved the real money for the seller who had decent, clear pictures. The trend as of lately is sellers are switching to cellphones for their pictures. its a POOR DECISION!!! In the end it all depends on if you want to make money, or give your stuff away.
I watched a Dimage Z3 with a set of about 10 high resolution pictures sell for way over $100. I also watched another auction of the same item in same condition with same accessories with a single crappy cellphone picture that didn't even bring a starting bid of $50.

So what's my point?

Well, this is the photography section of the DIS. My point is merely for advise. If you want to make money selling online you FIRST have to invest a little of your own money into a great camera. I have several cameras. I recommend a Dimage Z series or Canon powershot or such with NO LESS THAN 8 times OPTICAL!!! I didnt mention megapixels now, did I??? They dont matter. They are a selling gimmick for the most part for people who don't know any better. Megapixels aren't really important for online pictures. Optical IS important! A Dimage Z series is around 4 or 5 megapixels. The Optical is around 8 -12, and the time it takes to download to photobucket (You ARE using photobucket... right??? ) is about 1/3rd that of a new DSLR. That saves you time while still providing a great picture. A DSLR is great as well, but it takes longer to download them to photobucket. Time is money. A DSLR is better IMHO for "fun photography", family, vacation, and pets.

The better point & shoot cameras also take GREAT MACRO pictures as well. They can be obtained online for around $50 - $80, and you will make every PENNY of it back in mere DAYS if you sell much of anything at all. I often buy things from Craigslist that are poorly photographed, and poorly described, and then I properly describe them and properly photograph them, and triple my money. Its business. The SAME thing Walmart does in essence.

Anyways I hope this helped someone out there. You cant say no one ever told you, and you cant get mad when we ask for better pictures of your item if you didnt listen to basic selling logic.

I feel better because I got to vent about all the HORRIBLE ebay auctions, and I got to do it in a helpful way.

My new DSLR arrived today. My used (but new to me) Dimage Z2 will arrive later this week and I'll be back to listing!

 

[Steve's Girl]

Makes you say.....hmmmmmmm.....

Next.....

 

[WDWFigment]

I agree completely. Similarly, you should learn html or use a listing program that allows you to post large inline images. This is especially true on Craigslist, where image quality is especially dampered on the "template" style posts. You should also post thorough descriptions that "humanize" you a bit (not just copying and pasting the specs of a particular camera off of the manufacturer's website, either).

Ironically, when I buy, I look for listings that lack ALL of these things, as I know they will sell for the least. Since eBay has such liberal buyer protection, I have no worries. I'll easily win any claim I make. If I don't win with Paypal, I'll win with my credit card (which I use to fund ALL Paypal transactions).

 

[KramBerries]

I just want to say that if people are paying $200 for a Hot Wheels car, no one should complain about my tripod purchases.

 

[Daisy14'sDH]

I used to sell a lot of High end Softball bats online and still throw the odd one on there when I need a little extra coin. An I agree 100% with good pics make good money! My auctions always included every angle and let interested parties know that if they needed more to lmk and they'd have them ASAP. I've sodl close to 400 of them online and only twice have I been asked for extra pics.

BTW I have only used Powershots before this K-x I bought, and they do take pretty good Macro shots...

Do you do well with Craigslist?

How do you reach enough potential customers off it? it just seems so regional.

 

[MICKEY88]

You ARE using photobucket... right???

nope....

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

Do you do well with Craigslist?

How do you reach enough potential customers off it? it just seems so regional.

It IS regional. Thats the point most people miss. Its more what you sell than who you sell to. On Craigslist, i mostly sell more expensive items that i can make more money on. Lots of people on ebay work themselves to death with dollar items. Yeah, i know the dollar store has done well with it, but they deal in volume. It takes time to package and ship. On Craigslist, I try to keep it around $50 profit or more. I look for items I can make at least $50 profit off. I'll buy anything I can make at least $20 off of, but I save those for slow times and try to bulk them together if possible into larger lots. If not it's not worth my time. A good example is I bought paintball items for several years at yard sales. I'd buy a hopper for a dollar here, and a mask for $3 there, and maybe a gun at another. I stored them back together in the same box, and once i had a lot I could make $200 off, I listed it as a giant lot and sold it pretty quick. Just for the record... Paintball sells, but it's a hard sell. It has to be DIRT CHEAP for the buyer or you'll relist over and over. Same applies to most of what you sell. If you can't sell it for half of retail and still make decent profit you should avoid it (IMHO). Smaller items don't work as well. I like larger items. Furniture, vintage audio and vintage speakers like Bose, chain link fence (one of my top sellers when i find it), etc. Basically, if I can't make decent money off the item it's not worth the time of arranging for meeting up. There are other items I like as well, but I can't give all my secrets away!!!

I also agree with another here. Craigslist pictures are horrible. i usually do the IMG thing from Photobucket. I'll also point out that you use a different HTML line on DIS than you do on CL.

Oh, and the car pictured isn't Hot Wheels. It's Kenner. Certain rare old Hot Wheels can bring into the thousands!!!

 

[annnewjerz]

I just want to say that if people are paying $200 for a Hot Wheels car, no one should complain about my tripod purchases.

Strange Mr. Berries, I didn't know you were making a purchase. I swore I saw a post from Mark the other day about his new RRS tripod/ballhead combo, but not you....

.....very odd, very odd indeed.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

While I agree with your basic premise, I think the difference between the two sets of pictures is less about the cameras than it is about simple composition.

In the first set of pics, you have an old, unappealing background and shot from a distance. Your subject is slightly out of focus.

In the second, you filled the frame and shot at a different angle and subsequently have a very pretty, sparkly background. Your subject is in focus. I'd venture to say you might get a pretty similar result with your point and shoot if you set it up the same way.

But sure, the second pics are a lot nicer - and I'd certainly be more likely to be interested in your item based on the second set more so than the first.

However, we spend a lot of time here talking about how it's about the photographer as much as it is about the camera. We have to be careful about going backward, implying once again that it's all about the camera. For many, all they need to do to get better pictures with whatever camera they have is to learn more about basic things like composition. Great illustration.

It's actually a timely one for me as I have some things I'm getting ready to sell and this is a good reminder of how the pictures I take of them are important.

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

In the first set of pics, you have an old, unappealing background and shot from a distance. Your subject is slightly out of focus.

LOL the background isn't that old. Its only about 3 years old. Its part of my wall!!!

A little more recent... (The last 2 were out of date and taken during the actual remodel...) I need to update my photobucket account soon.

If you think those photos are out of focus you should see the other 20 something. You just can't get macro shots like the second set from a 3X Optical camera. If you COULD I wouldn't have to have bought the new DSLR or the Dimage point and shoot with 10X optical.

My Dimage Z2 is on the way. I won it the next day. It might be interesting to see a side by side comparison between the three. And even the first picture is LEAGUES above most of the pictures I'm seeing on ebay these days.

Here is a PERFECT example of how NOT to post pictures on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/Pipe-N-Hot-Rall...wItemQQptZDiecast_Vehicles?hash=item1a14e04f1 Unfortunately I see LOTS of pictures that are far worse than even this one.

The "sparkling pretty background" is our floor. You may have seen it before. Its the EXACT same brand and series of floor that was in the (now closed I'm afraid) Figment's Meet and Greet. It's the same brand that is all through Innoventions in Epcot. It was the same floor in both shots. I do see though, that I need to mop!

 

[KramBerries]

Strange Mr. Berries, I didn't know you were making a purchase. I swore I saw a post from Mark the other day about his new RRS tripod/ballhead combo, but not you....

.....very odd, very odd indeed.

Mark, as always, inspired me.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

LOL the background isn't that old. Its only about 3 years old. Its part of my wall!!!

I would never have known that from the pictures! Nice room, btw.

You just can't get macro shots like the second set from a 3X Optical camera. If you COULD I wouldn't have to have bought the new DSLR or the Dimage point and shoot with 10X optical.

Not to belabor the point, but I'm not sure I'd consider the second grouping macro shots.

And with some work, you can do pretty well with a pns, though you're right, generally not as well as with a dSLR.

http://digital-photography-school.com/macro-photography-tips-for-compact-digital-camera-users

PS Check out some of dcg0317's macro shots on the POTD thread if you want to see great macro photography.

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

PS Check out some of dcg0317's macro shots on the POTD thread if you want to see great macro photography.

I will. I haven't checked on that thread yet.

Thanks!

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

My whole point in this thread was that online sellers really need to give more thought into the pictures. Not necessarily needing a DSLR, but at least a decent camera. The first set of pictures, though blurry and unappealing, are still a HECK of a lot better than most of what I am seeing on ebay. I started selling on ebay over 10 years ago. Back then it seemed it was people like myself who were serious about selling. Not all big business. Most of the big businesses (but certainly not all) are using a decent camera. But there seems to be a shift in the kind of sellers, and the shift is moving towards younger audiences who think their cellphone takes great pictures. There is a HUGE difference between looking at a picture on a 1" or 2" cellphone screen and looking at the same picture on a 24" monitor!!!

I think a lot of people as well aren't using the new updates that allow ebayers to "enlarge" the pictures to fill the page. So maybe they honestly don't know how bad their pictures look to the rest of us who are using the updates.

 

[TinksDH]

Far more important than megapixels or zoom range is lighting, focus, composition and background. Your first set of pics are unevenly lit, out of focus, not the best composition and the background is very distracting. None of these issues are because of the camera per se, but trying to operate beyond the limitations of the camera. The second set are definitely in focus and better lit, and hence show the car off better. But using a DSLR didn't make that happen; you were just operating within the limitations of your new camera.

I've been buying/selling/trading watches on eBay and online forums for over 8 years. Here are some shots that I took back in late 2005 with a 4 megapixel 3X zoom Canon Powershot P&S ($200 camera back then; you can get better technology now for under $100). They are evenly lit (I didn't use flash; rather I placed the subject under a $2 plastic tub next to my window and shot through a square hole cut out of it, acting as a cheapo light tent), in focus (P&S cameras are GREAT for close ups as their small sensor size allows for a high depth of field), simply composed showing the watch, and on a very non-distracting background. The pics are small with low resolution as I had compressed these down for thumbnails and no longer have the originals. However, even these low rez shots accurately portray the condition of the watch.

My point is that you definitely don't need a DSLR, or even an expensive P&S. You can get great product shots using simple things from around your house, getting in good light and keeping the backgrounds simple. Plain white paper or fabric works great for backgrounds for small product shots. I use a pillow or a piece of fabric balled up as it does a better jog with bracelets and thick bands.

I use the strategy that someone else mentioned on here - I look for crappy pics, or items with no pic at all, and converse a lot with the seller to get a full understanding of the description, and a commitment that I can return the item if it's not in the condition described. That has worked very effectively for me, and many times I will get the item, take some nice shots, and put it back on eBay, usually doubling (and sometimes quadrupling) my money just due to the image. In the past I've easily turned quite a few $25 watch purchases into $75 sales. Do that a few times and you can get some nice camera gear!

 

[Todd_H]

You own a Yellow Labrador, don't you?

I agree completely that most pictures I see on ebay leave a lot to be desired with sellers who usually don't know how to market their items. Thanks for this post because I am getting ready to call my mom and ask her to dig up in their attic for old hot wheels cars of mine! Seriously... there could be a new lens up there!

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

You own a Yellow Labrador, don't you?

GOOD EYE!!! That dang dog gets hair EVERYWHERE!!!
You were close, but actually, she's a spoil rotten solid white Golden Retriever
(English Cream Golden)
She's the biggest baby in the house.

She's the only dog I ever seen who sleeps with a tennis ball in her mouth!!! My house isn't usually this bad... this was also taken during the remodel.

TinksDH...
Those are quite impressive for a 3Xoptical camera. I used to have a couple old lenses that I took off of old non-working DSLRs (usually I'd find them at yard sales, and the name would be like Yashmaki or Tashibenzacki or some goofy Japanese brand that no one had ever heard of. Usually the person had won it as a gift to some timeshare scam, etc. I'd pick them up for a buck or two each, strip out the lens (actually fully dismantling the camera to do so) and I would physically HOLD the lens in front of my little P&S. It actually worked. I did that for several years till my lenses mysteriously disappeared. I suspect the children, but I can't prove it.

I had a lighting table (1950s Wake Forest lighted drafting table) and about 8 different lights in my ebay room that swiveled or moved to my needs.
I too used cloth, usually exotic colors, sequins, silks, etc to "blanket" my items. Its amazing what you can use with a little creativity. I LOVE your light box idea!!!! I'll certainly have to try that!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

OK, I made a couple of quick attempts this morning.

1) I set a white posterboard against a wall so that it formed both a base and a backdrop. I place a car on it. That removed all distractions from the subject.

2) I put a p&s camera on a little tripod (a gorillapod). A DSLR with a macro lens would provide a better shot, but I think that the difference wouldn't be worth the effort for an eBay posting.

2) I put the p&s in AV mode and when for the smallest possible aperture (highest f-number). That allowed me to get the maximum depth of field (everything sharp rather than part of it sharp and part of it blurry). That may not be the most aesthetically pleasing approach, but it makes for a better product shot.

3) I put the camera in MF mode and adjusted the focus. This is probably not necessary, but I find that I can manually focus better on macro shots than the AF.

4) I set the camera to its lowest ISO (80). This minimizes noise in the picture.

5) I switched to two second delay mode for the shutter so that my pressing the shutter button wouldn't move the camera during the exposure.

After taking the shot, I tweaked the exposure and white balance, and I cropped in a bit tighter.

Now that I've seen the results, what would I do differently?

1) I'd switch from AV to M for the exposure and I'd go about 1 stop over what the meter suggested. The large amount of white in the background fooled the meter and caused it to underexpose. Boosting the exposure in post production caused an increase in noise.

2) I would use a softer light so that the shadows weren't quite so harsh. That could be as using a nearby reading lamp with a large shade to light the car.

3) I shot in RAW mode, so I didn't worry too much about the white balance while shooting. If I was shooting a JPG, I'd have spent more time trying to get my white balance right in the camera.

 

[TinksDH]

Its amazing what you can use with a little creativity. I LOVE your light box idea!!!! I'll certainly have to try that!

Here's another cheapo light tent idea that I've constructed. It works better for larger objects than the plastic bowl with the cutout.

http://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-make-a-inexpensive-light-tent

Here's a little more on the plastic tub idea:

http://www.sigma-2.com/camerajim/cjgjewelry.htm

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

I've seen auctions on ebay for a macro lighted lens cover that goes on your DSLR. It supposedly lights up around the lens somehow. Has anyone ever tried one of those?