Confused...looking for perspective

[gmboy95]

OK...here is where i need other peoples thoughts...I have been reading all the Poly posts and seen the price and seen the point charts and i am left with some questions and confusion.

1) First and foremost it would seem that if we said the relative worth of a point for rent is $10 (for sake of discussion), then it would cost 10-11,000 dollars relatively for a week in a bungalow (if we assigned a cash value to it, as attaching what Disney would charge a non member is silly and we all know it)....Understanding the whole 'if you can afford it so be it" argument, i am confused as to how in the world is that in any way shape or form anything more then a giant waste of money on a cost benefit basis.....is the plunge pool, and water you cant swim in really THAT much more valuable then a studio and watching the fireworks from the beach.....or, could you not afford the presidential suite at the GF for that same week a bit cheaper?

2) Why would someone spend $160 dollars a point if the only multi bedroom option is a bungalow, that has such a high per night point value, and their are only 20 of???......again, cost benefit?

3) Serious question....if you cant get a bungalow, and you have to spend the majority of your time in a studio, how would it make a person feel who spent $160 a point to be right next door to someone who made a ressie on points they paid $70 a point for, knowing that there access to the bungalows will be few and far between??....seriously, this fascinates me

4) When people buy directly through Disney so they can "leave it to their children" , are they spending a ton of dough on the relatively small % chance that when their kids grow older, get married, and have kids that they will even think of Disney the same way we do??....and in 2042 when some of our kids will be in there 40's and late 30's, will we really want to be financing their vacations at that point (this is off topic, but might as well get it in)

So these are the discussion points bouncing around my head lately, would love discussion on them...I really don't have strong opinions one way or another

 

[chalee94]

1) silly - yes. agreed.

2) as several of us have supposed, what happens if most of the 20 bungalows go unbooked on pts? disney gets to rent them for a giant profit.

not great for members but overall, it makes sense to me.

3) don't think there will be trouble booking the bungalows as a poly owner. but if all the PVB owners buy enough pts for the studios and no one really buys into PVB for the bungalows, then getting a studio becomes more difficult.

(not to mention the studios dwellers wondering why their dues are so high when they are staying in the functional equivalent of hotel rooms...and then figuring out that they are paying more for the higher maintenance bungalows that they never use...)

4) i suspect it's more to get an "in" with the grandkids but not sure personally...my OKW is for me and i didn't bother to extend it to 2057...

here are some threads that address some of these issues already if you are interested:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3366911

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3366939

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3368496

 

[Brian Noble]

1: Value is in the eye of the beholder. *I* would not spend that much money to stay there, but I can imagine that there are some who might. And, there don't need to be that many---there are only 7,300 room-nights total that need to be booked in any given year. But, in a year, the four theme parks see more than 50 million admission-days. You don't need many of those 50 million people to think this is a good idea to keep them booked, and I wager they will be.

2: Timeshare is not a product that is bought. It is a product that is sold---and it is aspirational. You might be assuming too much skepticism on the part of the average buyer.

3: See answer to #2. Because timeshare is sold, not bought, most people have no idea that the resale market exists, or how it works. DISers are not at all representative here.

4: Personally, I think leaving your kids your timeshares is a terrible idea. The timeshare itself only covers lodging---and you still have to pay annual fees on that anyway. To use it, you also have to travel to the timeshare, pay for food while on vacation (invariably expensive), etc. etc. Vacations are expensive, and not all families can afford to take them regularly. I have no idea if my kids will be in that position, or, if they eventually are, how long it takes them to get there. We were in our mid-30s before regular vacations were an option for us.

 

[DizBub]

I can only add to #4. We do intend to leave our DVC contracts to our kids because they want them. One of our daughter already own contracts at BLT and VGF and another wants to buy in the future. Another is content to be treated to trips every other year but she will be delighted to have it eventually.

If things change in the future the contracts can be fairly easily sold or points can be rented out. Nobody feels like it's a burden in our family.

 

[disney junky]

1: Value is in the eye of the beholder. *I* would not spend that much money to stay there, but I can imagine that there are some who might. And, there don't need to be that many---there are only 7,300 room-nights total that need to be booked in any given year. But, in a year, the four theme parks see more than 50 million admission-days. You don't need many of those 50 million people to think this is a good idea to keep them booked, and I wager they will be.

2: Timeshare is not a product that is bought. It is a product that is sold---and it is aspirational. You might be assuming too much skepticism on the part of the average buyer.

3: See answer to #2. Because timeshare is sold, not bought, most people have no idea that the resale market exists, or how it works. DISers are not at all representative here.

4: Personally, I think leaving your kids your timeshares is a terrible idea. The timeshare itself only covers lodging---and you still have to pay annual fees on that anyway. To use it, you also have to travel to the timeshare, pay for food while on vacation (invariably expensive), etc. etc. Vacations are expensive, and not all families can afford to take them regularly. I have no idea if my kids will be in that position, or, if they eventually are, how long it takes them to get there. We were in our mid-30s before regular vacations were an option for us.

I have a question. What does your 7,300 room nights represent.

As to the OP, I had never put the points in terms of dollars. That sheds a different light on it for me. And I like your point, if you have that kind of cash, can't you stay virtually anywhere without the additional cost of annual fees?

I spoke with a guy at VB a couple years ago. He had just bought his 2400th point. His thinking was that he'd rather buy points than a camper and planned to vacation/cruise 3-4 months a year. But that 2400 points equates to 2-3 weeks in a bungalow. He bought lots of point to use them for as many days/weeks/months as he could get. I couldn't wrap my head around what his dues were each year....

 

[Brian Noble]

What does your 7,300 room nights represent

20 bungalows x 365 nights a year.

 

[disney junky]

20 bungalows x 365 nights a year.

Thanks.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I have a question. What does your 7,300 room nights represent.

As to the OP, I had never put the points in terms of dollars. That sheds a different light on it for me. And I like your point, if you have that kind of cash, can't you stay virtually anywhere without the additional cost of annual fees?

I spoke with a guy at VB a couple years ago. He had just bought his 2400th point. His thinking was that he'd rather buy points than a camper and planned to vacation/cruise 3-4 months a year. But that 2400 points equates to 2-3 weeks in a bungalow. He bought lots of point to use them for as many days/weeks/months as he could get. I couldn't wrap my head around what his dues were each year....

He's also paying about $14K in dues each year, too.

 

[mort1331]

Lets look at a whole bell curve. There is ONLY 20 bungalows. Thats not even 1% of total rooms available. The same can be said for the other end of the curve with AKL value. There are people that bought thinking they only need enough points to stay there. How disappointed are they when the values are booked and they need to have a shorter vacation then planned. There are extremes on both ends and happiness in the middle.
Only 20 rooms, they will be booked and they will sell. We have items in our showroom that we know will not sell, but people look and say what if?? Its about driving sales to what you really want.
IMHO

 

[supersnoop]

On #4, it's just like any other asset, and you don't have to buy direct to leave it to your kids.

Most timeshares aren't assets; they're liabilities. Leaving your house, car, or boat to your kids comes with maintenance expenses, too, but they also have value and can be sold. That's how you should think of DVC; as an asset the same as a car. Please don't apply emotional value; it's not like great-great-great grandma's engagement ring.

 

[supersnoop]

He's also paying about $14K in dues each year, too.

And he could rent out half his points and cover those each year.

 

[Brian Noble]

And he could rent out half his points and cover those each year.

...which would be a terrible ROI on the original purchase price. If you want to get into the timeshare landlord game, DVC is not the best way to do it.

 

[sndral]

Re: question number 4 - I actually put my only adult child on the deed and part of the reason I bought where I did was because it's his favorite WDW resort. But he's even more of a Disney fan than I am, and he's free to sell when I'm gone if he chooses to do so or can't afford the dues/trip expenses, but barring the unforeseen he'll inherit enough to pay the MFs and treat himself to WDW trips.

 

[KingRichard]

Wrap your head around this. lol

So it has been posted that those 20 rooms are worth 1 million points to be sold.


1,000,000x$160.00=$160,000,000.00

160 million dollars to build 20 cottages?

Maybe I should buy some Disney stock?

 

[jerseyduke]

Your points have a lot of validity.

The retort: They are totally irrelevant.

Those bungalows put 1,000,000 more points into the poly. IF people buy points, with the intent on using them at the Bungalows, great. If not, then DVC essentially sells 460 studios while only having 360 to sell! (Not to mention, they "sold" the bungalows, but get to keep them and rent them out!)

How awesome is that for disney????

Imagine you could sell your house twice!!!!! Or more accurately, sell it, then charge the people who bought it rent!

 

[Tigger1]

I wonder what the cost to build each Bungalow is.
If they cost 100 points per night for 365 days a year @ $6 per point for Maintenance and taxes that comes to $219,000/yr for maintenance. Of course these Bungalows use many more points than 100 per night. I thought dues were a non-profit thing. Oh wait, maybe they are, someone did mention Poly has to have Gator and Snake patrol included in maintenance.

Personally if I buy into Poly it would be to stay in a studio. I am also hoping that the Bungalows keep high points so they pay for there own maintenance. If the points go down then then studios go up and I am paying more to maintenance per night when staying at Poly.

As far as that $160 price tag compared to $70. I think DVC is going to out price themselves soon. It seems that most buyers look at resale prices per point and do not consider price per year.

 

[Brian Noble]

A rule of thumb in the timeshare industry is that cost of construction (including land acquisition) should be no more than 20% of the eventual sales price.

 

[Sandisw]

I can say that in terms of knowing that I may have paid more per point than someone staying next store to me using less expensive points, well, that is the nature of the game.

I am currently using my cheaper ($55/pt) BWV points in conjunction with my VGF points to book my summer 2 bedroom there.

Will there be people there who may be staying completely on VGF points, sure!

In terms of the Poly, again, people pay more to own places they want to be sure they can stay and giving them the 11 month advantage. For some, like myself, it is worth it and I paid the price to own some VGF points so I can book what I want there when I need to.

However, I also own enough BWV points to supplement there at 7 months when we travel during off peak DVC times.

It's crazy in terms of the cost of the bungalows but there could be people who choose to do them for a few nights every few years. I could see doing that with extended family...3 nights and then a switch.

 

[jerseyduke]

As far as that $160 price tag compared to $70. I think DVC is going to out price themselves soon. It seems that most buyers look at resale prices per point and do not consider price per year.

I do not know about that! I think the speed with which the Grand Floridian sold caused them to expedite Poly plans.

I do not know how much higher it can go. But I think it will sell rapidly at 165 per point. Then again, I hope i am wrong, and they lower the price, but i will not hold my breath!