*Confirmed* G+ Changes to Advanced Lightning Lane

[Chili327]

I imagine Disney is most concerned that they give an enjoyable experience to the most amount of guests possible. However they accomplish that - it might not be fair to all.

Bringing guest satisfaction back to the top of the list is a whole other topic, though. It seems like they've been making gains in the past few months. Let's hope it continues.

I'd say most profitable is up there in importance... I would almost put it higher, but there is a cost of making things too unenjoyable that will cost them.

 

[Disneychick13]

I meant fair for those that pay it. Obviously if you aren't buying Genie+ then you are at a disadvantage. But imo everyone that pays for something should have the same shot of getting its benefits.

You are free to disagree.

I actually do agree that everyone who pays for it should have the same shot at getting its benefits, but in practice the system as it stands now does not do that. In principle but not in practice. People have advantages when they know how to use the system to its maximum potential and when they plan their day in such a way to make it work well. Now I know it is true that everyone has the same shot in theory, but in real life we all know that it’s not really as fair as it appears due to the advantage that those who either do their research or are just “super”users have.

I don’t actually think there is any way short of an express pass system that will be truly fair for all of its users.

 

[Chili327]

I actually do agree that everyone who pays for it should have the same shot at getting its benefits, but in practice the system as it stands now does not do that. In principle but not in practice. People have advantages when they know how to use the system to its maximum potential and when they plan their day in such a way to make it work well. Now I know it is true that everyone has the same shot in theory, but in real life we all know that it’s not really as fair as it appears due to the advantage that those who either do their research or are just “super”users have.

I don’t actually think there is any way short of an express pass system that will be truly fair for all of its users.

How would an express pass system be truly fair… does it not require some knowledge of how it works?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

How would an express pass system be truly fair… does it not require some knowledge of how it works?

It works by walking up to the line labeled Express Pass, that's all.

 

[buzlite]

I wonder if they could gamify genie. I used the app during my Starcruiser stay but it wasn’t distracting and kept me engaged in the theming. They could create different themes and completing a booking with rides could earn virtual trophies. Thus creatining a sense of conclusion rather then just what’s next

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

It works by walking up to the line labeled Express Pass, that's all.

That is true but express is also not just a walk on line then. Universal's goal with express is to cut the stand by line wait in half. So when rides have long lines express still can and does take awhile, not always though. They don't filter the express pass line in the same way as Disney does LL, they balance the two lines more.

But yes overall the system is simple to use and doesn't require thought.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That is true but express is also not just a walk on line then. Universal's goal with express is to cut the stand by line wait in half. So when rides have long lines express still can and does take awhile, not always though. They don't filter the express pass line in the same way as Disney does LL, they balance the two lines more.

But yes overall the system is simple to use and doesn't require thought.

They use a much better ratio than Disney does agree with you on that for sure! I've def. expressed that in the past many times

I was just solely speaking to the question of isn't there some knowledge of how it works. From a guest standpoint no it's just about walking up to the sign that say Express Pass. No video to figure out what to do, no complicated rules or timing of when your next ride can be, no actively being on your phone to complete your next ride (or ride later on), etc. You just walk up and enter the line.

All guests who have EP have the same playing field whether they are ones who purchased it or ones who got it through staying at one of the Premier resorts or have an AP (where you get it after 4pm IIRC). It's not a system that relies on modern Survivor-style (as in the tv show) where you need advantages to get the most out of the product.

 

[artesian]

I meant fair for those that pay it. Obviously if you aren't buying Genie+ then you are at a disadvantage. But imo everyone that pays for something should have the same shot of getting its benefits.

You are free to disagree.

I wholeheartedly disagree here. I now have 5 trips with a 6th upcoming where I have not and will not buy G+. Not one of these trip have i felt like I was blowing up my day by not having it. Dis is selling on fomo. Now don't get me wrong here if your ultimate goal is to be commando ride as much as you can and not wait on line as much absolutely G+ is your tickets. You can still have a casual and successful trip without having to stress about G+ and ILL. Still comes down to planning and managing expectations

This isn't an attack on you in anyway. Just my perspective and experience

 

[starlite_]

I wholeheartedly disagree here. I now have 5 trips with a 6th upcoming where I have not and will not buy G+. Not one of these trip have i felt like I was blowing up my day by not having it. Dis is selling on fomo. Now don't get me wrong here if your ultimate goal is to be commando ride as much as you can and not wait on line as much absolutely G+ is your tickets. You can still have a casual and successful trip without having to stress about G+ and ILL. Still comes down to planning and managing expectations

This isn't an attack on you in anyway. Just my perspective and experience

100% agree on that. Genie+ is indeed made to ride as many rides as possible and my comment was based on that. I wouldn't get it for example if I was going with a toddler or if my goal was to go with flow as much as possible. Unfortunately, I don't get to go that often to allow myself that haha.

 

[New Mouse]

It's pretty much always faster than fastpass even on busy days. Universal hasn't cut back on ride capacity like Disney has recently.

That is true but express is also not just a walk on line then. Universal's goal with express is to cut the stand by line wait in half. So when rides have long lines express still can and does take awhile, not always though. They don't filter the express pass line in the same way as Disney does LL, they balance the two lines more.

But yes overall the system is simple to use and doesn't require thought.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Universal hasn't cut back on ride capacity like Disney has recently.

Eh, technically Velocicoaster did last year when they added more safety checks to the ride vehicles. That made the time between vehicle dispatches longer, which in turn means less riders per hour are experiencing the ride. It's for safety rather than a cut back to save money but it still counts....kind of.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

Just let me pre book a couple of fast passes before the trip starts, and not at Midnight 3am or 6am.. and I will be happy

 

[clarker99]

On the last Disney Dish podcast @lentesta ran through the numbers on how back in 2013 that 3% of park guests had a DAS card. Those 3% took up 30% of the Lightning lane (Fast Pass back then) capacity and this 30% double the stand-by wait times.

He then ran through a recent scenario where Touring plans counted 1500 people getting into the Haunted Mansion Lightning lane line in one hour. Touring plans have determined that less than 300 slots are allocated to Genie+ per hour slot. So, 1200+ people were either rider swap, DAS or VIP tours. They counted zero VIP tours that time slot. 80% of the lightning lane capacity was non-Genie+. An insane number. This is likely why 3rd Part VIP tours have been banned.

DAS is being abused and it is almost impossible to deal with that without getting into law suits and PR trouble.

This type of information is very important to consider when analyzing waitimes and guest experience.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I now have 5 trips with a 6th upcoming where I have not and will not buy G+.

But is that because you're a frequent guest who know what rides you will and won't ride, how long you'll wait, will put a ride as "next trip', have outgrown or lost interest in some rides, etc?

Because the more trips you put under your belt the less you may be able to see the perspective being spoken about. My DISer friend who is now a local, who now has an AP about broke down due to the stress of trying to help plan her family's trip with Genie+. Because her family isn't one that goes to Disney much at all. And it is not at all the same experience as she can have even before she became a local simply because she went to Disney more frequently.

Most of the people on the DIS are biased. We're biased because we are here for a reason, we love Disney and many of us at least plan to go back. But that's not the general public. They don't have that luxury of having even several trips in the lifetime much less being able to say 5 and now an upcoming 6th trip.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

100% agree on that. Genie+ is indeed made to ride as many rides as possible and my comment was based on that. I wouldn't get it for example if I was going with a toddler or if my goal was to go with flow as much as possible. Unfortunately, I don't get to go that often to allow myself that haha.

But what's interesting is the people with young kids who say they won't go to Disney unless there is some sort of Genie+/ILL or FP+ system. Despite the fact that yes there are unpredictableness with a toddler and their stamina and behaviors that day.

When Genie+/ILL came around without the ability to pre-book rides that made a lot of people with young kids very upset. Their argument was at least they could pre-plan some rides, know that they could get on some rides and the switch to day of planning made it harder for them to tour the parks. The getting up at 7am is especially a pain point for many people with families.

 

[artesian]

But is that because you're a frequent guest who know what rides you will and won't ride, how long you'll wait, will put a ride as "next trip', have outgrown or lost interest in some rides, etc?

Because the more trips you put under your belt the less you may be able to see the perspective being spoken about. My DISer friend who is now a local, who now has an AP about broke down due to the stress of trying to help plan her family's trip with Genie+. Because her family isn't one that goes to Disney much at all. And it is not at all the same experience as she can have even before she became a local simply because she went to Disney more frequently.

Most of the people on the DIS are biased. We're biased because we are here for a reason, we love Disney and many of us at least plan to go back. But that's not the general public. They don't have that luxury of having even several trips in the lifetime much less being able to say 5 and now an upcoming 6th trip.

Have yet to really skip anything on these trips. My kids are now grown and we can time ourselves to vacation where parks are not beyond a 7ish in capacity. I still use the old school early in line rope drop method to get on the majors first and try to get through our list on as many as we can before lunch. Last trip I only wound up doing EP only and aside waiting nearly an hour for Remy nothing else was really much more than 30 mins.

Last thought is yes there are certain rides we don't care for anymore. Things (picking one per park) like 7DMT, Frozen ride, Navi river and Smugglers are no longer must do's.

You're spot on and the bias this is true here but there is a sentiment with blanket statements you without G+ you can't have a successful trip I guess just rubs me the wrong way. If I still had little ones or only went once of couple of years or during peak times I'm sure I'd probably breakdown and get it. There is in my opinion in no denying that Disney markets G+ with FOMO by letting me know through the app and marketing that I should to have it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Things (picking one per park) like 7DMT, Frozen ride, Navi river and Smugglers are no longer must do's.

Smugglers Run I don't think garners as much wait time as it did when it first opened but the others sure do so that def. takes out some stress. Navi drove us nuts last year with how they barely allowed anyone through Standby, it was horrible.

blanket statements you without G+ you can't have a successful trip I guess just rubs me the wrong way.

I do think most people's definition, from an infrequent or unlikely to come back anytime soon guest way is getting on the attractions. You're spending a lot of money on park tickets and most literally can't afford to just go and not get on many rides because the wait times are so high.

So when I usually hear about not having a successful trip without FP+ or without Genie+ (because it existed back in FP+ too but by most accounts the ratio is even worse with Genie+/ILL than it was with FP+) I look at it that way. It's one thing if you don't want to ride a ride because it doesn't interest you, is too thrilling, etc but it's another if the wait time is the barrier.

But this isn't new. With MaxPass over at DL pre-pandemic we felt the same. We went 6 days in 2019 across 2 separate trips and only 1 of those days without MaxPass because that one day was awful in terms of wait times and ride allocation towards MP users. And for us DL was a new park to us (I hadn't been since I was a toddler). It was an extremely frustrating experience at DL without MP and it would not by any stretch be considered a successful trip had we never bought MP.

Back to WDW we are park commandos who don't go but roughly every 5 to 6 years who didn't use Genie+ yet but it's mainly because I know what rides are worth us waiting for, what rides we won't care to ride no matter what. But even we said we should have just bought it for the day or two we had completely free to ourselves last year because we got that frustrated and we had been to WDW before multiple times!

I can understand why it would rub you the wrong way for a blanket statement to be applied though but at the same time I get it. I don't know that I would call our last trip successful if looking at happiness on getting on attractions because mostly we were getting very upset at being stopped so many dang times in Standby but it was overall a great trip for other reasons.

 

[egrzesiowski]

On the last Disney Dish podcast @lentesta ran through the numbers on how back in 2013 (there was a lawsuit) that 3% of park guests have a DAS card. Those 3% took up 30% of the Lightning lane (Fast Pass back then) capacity and this 30% double the stand-by wait times.

He then ran through a recent scenario where Touring plans counted 1500 people getting into the Haunted Mansion Lightning lane line in one hour. Touring plans have determined that less than 300 slots are allocated to Genie+ per hour slot. So, 1200+ people were either rider swap, DAS or VIP tours. They counted zero VIP tours that time slot. 80% of the lightning lane capacity was non-Genie+. An insane number. This is likely why 3rd Part VIP tours have been banned.

DAS is being abused and it is almost impossible to deal with that without getting into law suits and PR trouble.

This type of information is very important to consider when analyzing waitimes and guest experience.

This is super interesting! I came across something recently about rules becoming stricter for DAS, but since I don't qualify I didn't look in to it. I didn't know there was this much abuse of it.

 

[Bibbidi_Boo]

This is super interesting! I came across something recently about rules becoming stricter for DAS, but since I don't qualify I didn't look in to it. I didn't know there was this much abuse of it.

Universal made it stricter harder to get, no change for Disney.

 

[clarker99]

This is super interesting! I came across something recently about rules becoming stricter for DAS, but since I don't qualify I didn't look in to it. I didn't know there was this much abuse of it.

Given the DAS data provided by Touring Plans, even if Disney stopped selling Genie+ it would do very little to improve wait times.

And sadly, Genie+ is even more valuable given that DAS is causing the longer wait times.

Disney really needs to find a way to get a grip on this problem.

Universal made it stricter harder to get, no change for Disney.

What changes were made?