*Confirmed* G+ Changes to Advanced Lightning Lane

[Pommau]

FP+ wasn't broken. It was released without adequate testing and performance but it got refined. I had many years using it with success.

The change to Genie+/LL and ILL is quite simply a money grab. And by splitting those, it's an aggregious money grab. And too complicated for the average family to comprehend. Bit the bullet and bought Genie+? Great. But oh, can't choose many rides for LL because those are another $88 for a family of 4.

The reality is you cannot please everyone. Example: With Genie+/LL/ILL being same day only, some people are demanding advance reservations like FP+. It will take years for those who remember that FP and FP+ were free to get over the cost increase to avoid a full day of standby lines. Universal doesn't suffer this because it was always extra cost for Express (however, hotel guest perk is way better than Disney's extra half hour.)

The Defunctland video proves how broken the FP+ system was, OG FP was the best system for every guest on site, easy to use and learn, did not completely destroy wait times for standby, and increased guest satisfaction with EVERYONE. While you could technically get more line skips with FP+, it was so wildly skewed compared to FP. Genie+ attempting to bring back the reservation system to FP+ will be a detriment to park guests.

 

[Moliphino]

The Defunctland video proves how broken the FP+ system was, OG FP was the best system for every guest on site, easy to use and learn, did not completely destroy wait times for standby, and increased guest satisfaction with EVERYONE. While you could technically get more line skips with FP+, it was so wildly skewed compared to FP. Genie+ attempting to bring back the reservation system to FP+ will be a detriment to park guests.

Probably because people didn't even use half of their paper fastpasses because the times didn't work for them. I have hundreds of them in a drawer somewhere.

 

[buzlite]

Very interesting video! Thanks for posting.

It kind of makes even more sense why express pass at Universal Is such a good system. It only selects for people who willing to pay for it (either through their premier hotels or through the theme parks per day). It doesn’t matter if you are a casual park goer/super user/AP holder. It’s ease of use doesn’t discriminate for people who know how to use it because it’s simple. Most people don’t use it (as evidenced by the long stand by lines) and it seems like people are OK with that.

Disney’s system will never be better until it adopts a similar system to universal (just strictly paid as they could never offer it to deluxe guests). Will most guests be able to use it? No, but that’s the only way to make it not only work but be more fair to most people. Fair in that most people understand that paying a lot more money will get you a better experience (see VIP tours).

The only thing the video didn’t address is the DAS system (which I believe plays a huge role in any paid system) and which would have to be more streamlined in a Disney express-pass like system (as Universal is clumsily attempting to do).

Disney could include it for concierge level guests and a paid daily upgrade for everyone else.
However I do feel that the increase in cost for any Fastpass system will indirectly lead to increased abuse of the DAS system. According to reports abuse is already up with Genie Plus and lightning lane services.

Disney was actually quite intelligent in chasing revenue with GeniePlus. This increase micro transactions really add up and research has shown that people will fall trap to underestimating the overall cost of these micro transactions. But there is a more aware audience that would rather pay upfront and not deal with the budgeting confusion. I mean isn't this one of the main values of the Dining Plan.

The number 1 problem with Genieplus is the requirement to be glued to your phone to constantly refresh. Any update should either include the ability to plan ahead of time or increased automation to automatically book your preferred next ride. People need to be able to enjoy the high of getting off an amazing ride/experience without immediately grabbing their phone and be disappointed with Genie Plus availability. Then stress refresh for the next hour until they get something. Maybe the need to create a system the 1)Cheaper but allows you to plan and 2)More expensive but doesn't require as much planning.

This is actually a very difficult problem to solve for everyone. Disney World has a very different population group than Universal Orlando and would fail if they ported over their system of Express pass. Although it could work extremely well in California.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Probably because people didn't even use half of their paper fastpasses because the times didn't work for them. I have hundreds of them in a drawer somewhere.

I'm not understanding this - the FP machine had the return time prominently displayed when the pass was distributed. How could someone pull a FP and not know if the time worked for them or not? If even 5% of the FP's went unused I'd be surprised.

If you said the same thing about the first G+ LL of the day as the system is now I'd agree with you. There is no way to know what time it is going to give you and the best you can do is surrender the G+ LL and get another one - but you won't know the return time for that one until you get it either.

 

[SkyGuy]

I'm not understanding this - the FP machine had the return time prominently displayed when the pass was distributed. How could someone pull a FP and not know if the time worked for them or not? If even 5% of the FP's went unused I'd be surprised.

If you said the same thing about the first G+ LL of the day as the system is now I'd agree with you. There is no way to know what time it is going to give you and the best you can do is surrender the G+ LL and get another one - but you won't know the return time for that one until you get it either.

When I wasn’t able to use a paper FP, which wasn’t seldom, it was because we wanted to ride a ride, and the time available was much later in the day and then plans changed - kids got tired, I got tired, we wanted food, etc. So there was intent to use that was never realized. However, we generally tried to find someone just arriving and gift our FP to them. That was the best. Others probably did not, so there would inevitably be unused FP.

 

[Moliphino]

I'm not understanding this - the FP machine had the return time prominently displayed when the pass was distributed. How could someone pull a FP and not know if the time worked for them or not? If even 5% of the FP's went unused I'd be surprised.

If you said the same thing about the first G+ LL of the day as the system is now I'd agree with you. There is no way to know what time it is going to give you and the best you can do is surrender the G+ LL and get another one - but you won't know the return time for that one until you get it either.

On popular rides, the times would go so fast that you wouldn't know until you got it. So you might get a TSMM right at park opening for the evening that conflicts with other plans (hopping, meals, etc).

 

[marcar12]

As much fun as we had at Disneyland this past summer and as well as Genie+ worked for us, one big downside was how glued I was to my phone. I didn't realize how much of a factor this was for me until I think back on it and how I was checking the app constantly while walking through every queue (or feeling frustrated as I lost reception in a queue so I couldn't check/refresh it).

I have only used Genie+ that one time, and I also only ever used FP+ for one trip in 2018. But that trip was the best vacation of my life. I would 100000% prefer to have a FP+ system back in place, even if I have to pay for it. Planning 3 rides per day 60 days in advance of the FIRST vacation day was very much preferred for me, even if those were the only 3 rides that I got a FP for the whole day.

If I had my vote, we would go back to a FP+ system, tiers and all, have 3 FP per day, pay $15 per person, have the times locked in and no need to refresh on the app.... and for the rest of the rides do stand-by lines.

 

[starlite_]

I don't understand why so many ppl say they are glued to their phone. It takes 2 minutes tops to select a LL. What are you all doing that takes so much longer???

 

[pens4821]

I don't understand why so many ppl say they are glued to their phone. It takes 2 minutes tops to select a LL. What are you all doing that takes so much longer???

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been trying to figure out why people say that since we went and used it the first time in March of 2022. Maybe because we stack for the evening it’s not a factor for us. We look at our phone for it once every two hours. Maybe now that you can modify I’ll look a little more when we go this March.

That and complaining about having to be up at 7 am on vacation. There are only a few rides that sellout of LL and ILL on the busiest days quickly. If you aren’t getting up early I’d assume you’re in the park late. So forgo the LL/ILL and ride said ride at closing time. I get this isn’t possible for the VQ rides, but could try for the afternoon VQ.

 

[buzlite]

I don't understand why so many ppl say they are glued to their phone. It takes 2 minutes tops to select a LL. What are you all doing that takes so much longer???

Ride times get booked up quite fast for popular rides in the morning. Ride times may show up much later in the day or not at all. Most people will continue to refresh as new times becomes available all the time. It also “trains” you to consistently look at the app for ride times, mobile orders etc.
Disney has 1 of the best hard products in the world in terms of stories. The digital drag is taking away some of that magic for many people. Especially for those of us that also use technology for work. We want to get away from digital to do lists and notifications and escape into Disney.

 

[starlite_]

Ride times get booked up quite fast for popular rides in the morning. Ride times may show up much later in the day or not at all. Most people will continue to refresh as new times becomes available all the time. It also “trains” you to consistently look at the app for ride times, mobile orders etc.
Disney has 1 of the best hard products in the world in terms of stories. The digital drag is taking away some of that magic for many people. Especially for those of us that also use technology for work. We want to get away from digital to do lists and notifications and escape into Disney.

That would make sense if refreshing took more than 10 seconds. It doesn't.

 

[Disney Bobby]

That would make sense if refreshing took more than 10 seconds. It doesn't.

Does refreshing once get you what you want, or do you have to keep refreshing until you hopefully get what you want?

 

[kmill99]

Refreshing is clutch. Mixed with book and Modify ride time. Plus, add in something many people don't realize - disney has semi-set times every day, several of them, when they drop another bucket of availability for select rides. These things used together can be used to great effect if you have even a basic knowledge of them. If you periodically refresh, you can profit off of.people who didn't show in time or modified out of their original slot. It really does work quite well (except of course when rides (especially multiple rides, big ticket rides) go down... that will monkey wrench the situation of course).

Sure, the average family rolling in is not going to benefit nearly as well... but I'm ok with that. Like most things, those who do their homework are entitled to the extra perks they can achieve, in my opinion. I like a system that has built in hacks for people that are willing to putting the time to learn the nuances. No Harrison Burgeron system for me, please.

 

[marcar12]

I don't understand why so many ppl say they are glued to their phone. It takes 2 minutes tops to select a LL. What are you all doing that takes so much longer???

2 minutes 15 times a day is a lot when you are trying to engage with your family or enjoy things around you. Add that to having to think about timing constantly and set timers on your phone for the next LL (which always seems to go off in the middle or a ride or show), etc, and it just takes away from the experience... for me at least.

Don't get me wrong, I was grateful for Genie+ and glad to have it at the time, and had a fabulous trip, but it just isn't the same when you have to think about scheduling rides while enjoying your time in the park. Also, being at Disneyland, it was also a matter of the first thing to think about when entering the gates was buying Genie+ and scheduling the first ride... not taking in your surroundings and soaking in the moment.

 

[kmill99]

...but, being fair and honest about everything - even if you're not booking any LLs, don't you really always have to look at the phone to check the app for wait times anyway? I know we do. And it's even worse if we don't have some already booked LLs because at least then we have some guaranteed shorter waits.

Saying this impacts being at the park and being able to soak in a moment sounds a bit excessive. Book then look, or look then book. I know it can be a bit of a burden being the strategist for the rest of the crew, that's so true. I'd suggest looking up Touring Plans and putting some personal touring plans together, to reduce that day of stress. Plus get their app for some much more probable wait times.

 

[starlite_]

2 minutes 15 times a day is a lot when you are trying to engage with your family or enjoy things around you. Add that to having to think about timing constantly and set timers on your phone for the next LL (which always seems to go off in the middle or a ride or show), etc, and it just takes away from the experience... for me at least.

Don't get me wrong, I was grateful for Genie+ and glad to have it at the time, and had a fabulous trip, but it just isn't the same when you have to think about scheduling rides while enjoying your time in the park. Also, being at Disneyland, it was also a matter of the first thing to think about when entering the gates was buying Genie+ and scheduling the first ride... not taking in your surroundings and soaking in the moment.

2 minutes 15 times is 30 minutes. Let's say you are at the part for 12 hrs, 30 minutes out of 720.

How does 2 minutes 15 times a day stop you from engaging with your family? Whenever we are checking LLs or refreshing or looking at wait times or show times or anything in the app my family doesn't stop talking to me or whoever is doing the app stuff at that moment, on the contrary, we chat about it, we ask each other what we want to do. As @kmill99 said, we check the lines to see what our next stop is or choose a place to eat. We put the phone where everyone can see.

My phone use at Disney Parks is so low it doesn't even get to 20% at the end of day. This includes using the app, taking pictures, checking in with family who isn't there to let them know how it's going, recording video, etc. And we use all the tricks refreshing, fishing, modifying, etc so it's not like we are only using the app for LLs every 2 hrs.

Last time we went to DLR for 2 days we did almost 50 attractions (no LL+ bought), including all available nighttime shows, Roger's the Musical and the parade twice. Not included in those 50 are all the pictures with characters we took, when we rode the Mains Street cars, or the Railroad, or random music performances. We sat down to eat at QS places, we sat down to wait for the night shows and the parades, I've honestly never sat down so much before (we did not do any show packages). We even left 2 hrs before close on the 2nd day.

In all that time, I charged my phone once, so it's not like we were glued to it all day.
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...but, being fair and honest about everything - even if you're not booking any LLs, don't you really always have to look at the phone to check the app for wait times anyway? I know we do. And it's even worse if we don't have some already booked LLs because at least then we have some guaranteed shorter waits.

Saying this impacts being at the park and being able to soak in a moment sounds a bit excessive. Book then look, or look then book. I know it can be a bit of a burden being the strategist for the rest of the crew, that's so true. I'd suggest looking up Touring Plans and putting some personal touring plans together, to reduce that day of stress. Plus get their app for some much more probable wait times.

Indeed! What we do is scan the LL, book another one and then we don't use the app again until we've exited the ride and are looking at what to do again. We look at what to do, maybe modify the LL or order food and phone goes in the bag again. Genie+ itself doesn't add an insane amount of time to app use.

I am wondering if some folks are obsessively refreshing or something and that's why they feel like they do.

 

[marcar12]

...but, being fair and honest about everything - even if you're not booking any LLs, don't you really always have to look at the phone to check the app for wait times anyway? I know we do. And it's even worse if we don't have some already booked LLs because at least then we have some guaranteed shorter waits.

Saying this impacts being at the park and being able to soak in a moment sounds a bit excessive. Book then look, or look then book. I know it can be a bit of a burden being the strategist for the rest of the crew, that's so true. I'd suggest looking up Touring Plans and putting some personal touring plans together, to reduce that day of stress. Plus get their app for some much more probable wait times.

2 minutes 15 times is 30 minutes. Let's say you are at the part for 12 hrs, 30 minutes out of 720.

How does 2 minutes 15 times a day stop you from engaging with your family? Whenever we are checking LLs or refreshing or looking at wait times or show times or anything in the app my family doesn't stop talking to me or whoever is doing the app stuff at that moment, on the contrary, we chat about it, we ask each other what we want to do. As @kmill99 said, we check the lines to see what our next stop is or choose a place to eat. We put the phone where everyone can see.

My phone use at Disney Parks is so low it doesn't even get to 20% at the end of day. This includes using the app, taking pictures, checking in with family who isn't there to let them know how it's going, recording video, etc. And we use all the tricks refreshing, fishing, modifying, etc so it's not like we are only using the app for LLs every 2 hrs.

Last time we went to DLR for 2 days we did almost 50 attractions (no LL+ bought), including all available nighttime shows, Roger's the Musical and the parade twice. Not included in those 50 are all the pictures with characters we took, when we rode the Mains Street cars, or the Railroad, or random music performances. We sat down to eat at QS places, we sat down to wait for the night shows and the parades, I've honestly never sat down so much before (we did not do any show packages). We even left 2 hrs before close on the 2nd day.

In all that time, I charged my phone once, so it's not like we were glued to it all day.
------


Indeed! What we do is scan the LL, book another one and then we don't use the app again until we've exited the ride and are looking at what to do again. We look at what to do, maybe modify the LL or order food and phone goes in the bag again. Genie+ itself doesn't add an insane amount of time to app use.

I am wondering if some folks are obsessively refreshing or something and that's why they feel like they do.

Look, I am just sharing what my personal experience and opinion was like. I don't mean to sound like a complainer or like I didn't still enjoy my vacation to Disneyland or that I regret getting Genie+. I really appreciated having it as an option and we had a blast on our trip! It sounds like you are a big fan of Genie+, and I can understand why.

I am just adding to the discussion about what my preference is (planning my day ahead of time, just a few rides, instead of while I am physically in the parks). I am the planner in my family and am in charge of getting Genie+ and all LL's for everyone. I don't mind having that role, but it is less ideal for me to have that job while in the parks than it is before we get to the parks. Just my own experience.

I think that if your phone isn't dead before the end of your Disney day, you are in the minority. Not saying I am definitely in the majority, but I do think a lot of people feel similarly to me.

I go to Disney once every 3 years or so. And our trip last summer to Disneyland was the very first time we had ever been there. People who go more often than that might feel it is less important to fit everything in than someone who is there once every 3-5 years (or less) and feels like they need to constantly refresh in order to make their day as perfect as possible since they won't get a chance to be there again for a long time. Who knows.

All I know for sure is I hope that we hear about the changes to Genie+ soon!

 

[Disneychick13]

I think the whole “how much you are on your phone” really depends on how you do the parks- what rides you choose and what times you go. My family goes often. We don’t do shows or meet and greets. We only want to do the big rides. We don’t go at rope drop or late in the evening. We want to get there around 10:30/11. We get there too early to stack efficiently. I want to go on one ride and immediately go on an adjacent ride. That means having to play the refresh game like a madman while still not being able to get everything (unless I want to play modify/refresh for 30 minutes to get a slinky that doesn’t slip away before I can book it.) Look if you don’t really care what you get or what order you get them then sure you can probably work the system pretty quickly. But not everyone plays the game that way. Whatever system they have in place I will learn to maximize it to its full potential. We hardly ever go in the stand-by line. It’s not really set up to be used the way that I use it, but in order to use it that way I’m going to be on my phone a decent amount.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The "on the phone" complaints were around with FP+. I read a lot of comments outside of the DIS on that. But I know how I was with MP, I know how I was with FP+ (especially with being there during the hurricane) I know how I was with Universal (with and without EP), and I know how I was with SDC (with and without Trailblazer Pass) and I was a lot more on my phone at Disney than I ever was with any of the other parks. Yes you often check the wait times on your phone but there is no secondary action to it, there's no anxiousness on can I get the ride I want and the time I want, there's not a whole lot you're doing but scrolling and generally making a quick enough decision about going on a ride or not based on wait times (or location). Even when I was at Universal putting in mobile orders I still spent less time on my phone than I did at Disney.

I watched as our DISer friend last May was pulling out her phone every so often at AK while we were with her trying to time it right to get her FOP LL for around the time she wanted. First it was too early so the times were too early so she had to keep checking on and off, that would have still been there with FP+ but because she would have been able to check from a list of available times ahead of time it *might* have reduced just how many times. With us not using Genie+ last trip I was not on my phone nearly as much but still more than Universal's portion mostly because we utilized mobile ordering a lot at Disney and then one time I was checking to see where we might want to go for lunch and almost booked an ADR but we opted for mobile ordering QS.

For some this isn't an issue, I mean ultimately I'm okay with being on my phone it's fine but it's hard to downplay how that impacts other people or their validity to their experiences. I also can say that if you're able to go multiple times a year or at least once a year or two your viewpoint may be different because it's a lot easier to say "I'll just catch it next time" for those that only go once in a great while or those who really only plan on going once that feeling of checking the phone to get the next LL tends to feel quite different. Outside of this Board the complaints about being tied to your phone are very strong with Disney parks. It extends to mobile ordering, ADR reserving (especially with "keep checking" although that is also computer based before your trip, was there with FP+ and now Genie+, was there too even with park reservations with respects to wanting to change them if you could when you were on your trip. It's not going to go away but "how much time are you really spending" counterpoints tend to miss the mark overall.

 

[Tom_E_D]

The "on the phone" complaints were around with FP+. I read a lot of comments outside of the DIS on that. But I know how I was with MP, I know how I was with FP+ (especially with being there during the hurricane) I know how I was with Universal (with and without EP), and I know how I was with SDC (with and without Trailblazer Pass) and I was a lot more on my phone at Disney than I ever was with any of the other parks. Yes you often check the wait times on your phone but there is no secondary action to it, there's no anxiousness on can I get the ride I want and the time I want, there's not a whole lot you're doing but scrolling and generally making a quick enough decision about going on a ride or not based on wait times (or location). Even when I was at Universal putting in mobile orders I still spent less time on my phone than I did at Disney.

I watched as our DISer friend last May was pulling out her phone every so often at AK while we were with her trying to time it right to get her FOP LL for around the time she wanted. First it was too early so the times were too early so she had to keep checking on and off, that would have still been there with FP+ but because she would have been able to check from a list of available times ahead of time it *might* have reduced just how many times. With us not using Genie+ last trip I was not on my phone nearly as much but still more than Universal's portion mostly because we utilized mobile ordering a lot at Disney and then one time I was checking to see where we might want to go for lunch and almost booked an ADR but we opted for mobile ordering QS.

For some this isn't an issue, I mean ultimately I'm okay with being on my phone it's fine but it's hard to downplay how that impacts other people or their validity to their experiences. I also can say that if you're able to go multiple times a year or at least once a year or two your viewpoint may be different because it's a lot easier to say "I'll just catch it next time" for those that only go once in a great while or those who really only plan on going once that feeling of checking the phone to get the next LL tends to feel quite different. Outside of this Board the complaints about being tied to your phone are very strong with Disney parks. It extends to mobile ordering, ADR reserving (especially with "keep checking" although that is also computer based before your trip, was there with FP+ and now Genie+, was there too even with park reservations with respects to wanting to change them if you could when you were on your trip. It's not going to go away but "how much time are you really spending" counterpoints tend to miss the mark overall.

FOP is an ILL, not a Genie+ LL. It has been since the ILL/G+ system began. With ILLs, you choose from available times when you buy it. It isn't next available time. So, why was she checking her phone for times?