Confirmed:Classic Resorts To Increase to $130/pt. On March 20th

[intertile]

There is always demand at DVC, because the mouse attracts people. As the price of retail increases, the possibility of Disney exercising ROFR increases. That in turn drives up peoples offer price, because they want to pass ROFR.

That said, there will be a point when the contract length will begin to cause the contract price to go down.

 

[Brian Noble]

Not that there's a whole lot they could take away.

I think the biggest stick might well be the AP discounts, but it depends on who is paying for them. I suspect it is something that Parks is eating, rather than DVCMC or DVD is paying for. If so, there's less incentive to cut it.

Resale prices are the closest thing you'll get to a true market value for the points.

Yes and no. It is absolutely true that timeshare is a product that is sold rather than bought, and that these days most who purchase DVC direct probably have little to no idea that resale exists. But, it's *also* true that timeshare is not a very widely-understood product. Everyone "gets" renting a hotel, but until you've actually done some research, it is hard to wrap your head around why a timeshare might be a good idea, so there are a lot of people for whom timeshare might make sense who never even consider it.

I think of it as kind of like the early days of DVR. I bought my first DVR (a standalone ReplayTV unit) back in early 2001, and paid a *lot* for it. Everyone else thought I was nuts. They already had VCRs, why did they need a DVR? My answer was: until you have one, you won't understand why you've always needed one. But, once you have one, you'll never live without it. We think of our timeshares like that. We literally cannot imagine renting a single hotel room and calling it "vacation". We will sometimes get a suite or two hotel rooms when there isn't a suitable timeshare or private-home-rental option, but we consider that roughing it.

However, carriers had an incentive to market DVRs to everyone, and so the market grew quickly as people figured out why they were cool. Timeshare developers only want to market to the *uninformed*, and so they have no incentive to expand the resale market.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

To my knowledge disney has never NOT grandfathered in changes. If so, could you provide me an example. In all reality we have no idea what guides know, what they are privy to divulge, what they can't. So we only can go by what info the guides release. Maybe they know a grandfather policy exists? We can in no way anymore dispute or confirm what they say because they are in the know, we are not.

Well, depends upon how you want to qualify that.

I would say it's very likely that we see expansion of the items which are already restricted. This has already happened. Grand Cal was added back into Disney Collection, from which resale buyers are blocked. There was a recent addition to the Concierge Collection. And those who only own resale points have been blocked from member cruises.

Disney has every reason to keep improving the areas which are already restricted.

After that, the greatest likelihood (IMO) is the addition of NEW benefits from which resale buyers are blocked. Could be something as simple as a preferred check-in desk, early room access, etc.

Jim Lewis wasn't exactly the most member-friendly leader DVC could have had (understatement of the year.) Others within DVC have realized that removing existing perks / benefits is the worst possible approach they could take. Not that there's a whole lot they could take away. Resale buyers aren't going to be held to their Home resort, or any other restriction of that magnitude.

That said, I'm not questioning the information on pricing. Haven't confirmed one way of the other myself but it sounds reasonable.

What I would question is your Guide's claim (commitment, promise) that you will be exempt from future resale changes. Two things:

1) Do you really believe that Claire Bilby, Ken Potrock or any other DVC exec gave the sales staff approval to take that stance on future resale restrictions with members and prospects?

2) If you do believe that happened, do you also believe that any future DVC chief will feel obligated to uphold that verbal commitment?

Your Guide may be right on the money with regard to pricing but she doesn't know a darn thing about future resale restrictions. Those claims are meaningless.

 

[LILJAN59]

We are vacationing in Alabama, and our iPad does not support flash player, so I cannot watch it.

 

[Brian Noble]

To my knowledge disney has never NOT grandfathered in changes.

When it comes to DVC, there has been one change. Hard to draw a trend line from a single data point.

That's not to say I expect that they won't grandfather, but I also would not bet the farm that they will.

 

[LoriKutchey]

So are these new closing costs only come into effect on March 20th and later? Or are they now in effect? I was thinking on a small 25 point direct add on.

 

[tjkraz]

To my knowledge disney has never NOT grandfathered in changes. If so, could you provide me an example.

Well, there has only been one true instance so I'm not sure how much of a lasting precedent that represents. Although I will point out that there were a lot of resale buyers disappointed to discover that they could not even pay cash for the member cruises. That was not clearly disclosed prior to 3/20/11.

Let's assume for a moment that future restrictions will actually happen someday. Do you really think that DVC will continue to attach staggered implementation dates to all of these different stages?

In other words, is it really conceivable that someday we will have a system where:

Those who bought after 3/20/11 cannot book Disney, Concierge and Adv. Collections.
Those who bought after 6/1/13 cannot do ____
Those who bought after 6/1/16 cannot do ____
Those who bought after 1/1/18 cannot do ____

In all reality we have no idea what guides know, what they are privy to divulge, what they can't. So we only can go by what info the guides release. Maybe they know a grandfather policy exists? We can in no way anymore dispute or confirm what they say because they are in the know, we are not.

Then ask your Guide to put it in writing. If that is policy, there should be no problem getting a written guarantee.

In lieu of that, her comments are merely opinion. And they are meaningless.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

So are these new closing costs only come into effect on March 20th and later? Or are they now in effect? I was thinking on a small 25 point direct add on.

These closing cost prices are in effect now.

 

[heynowirv]

Back in March 2011, resales contracts bought after that date had restrictions placed on them( no use for concierge resorts, collections resorts RCI and cruises). The impending ADDITIONAL restrictions will only affect resales contracts bought after what ever date they announce. Not gonna happen on March 20.

OK so obviously i don't have any clerical skills..Ha Ha.So the answer is yes more restrictions ARE coming. hummm anyone have any idea what else they will restrict?[/QUOTE]

And that's my whole quote. I was merely asking if the person who said that restrictions were coming if they knew what they were,not that I knew for a fact they were.

 

[bwvBound]

Might we consider changes to the Closing Cost process a change? At first, there were no Closing Costs when buying direct. Then later, new buyers paid closing costs for direct where existing members were exempt. Now ... all direct buyers, new and existing, pay closing costs.

Existing owners were not grandfathered from this added cost for very long ...

 

[LoriKutchey]

Thanks for the info on closing costs. Maybe I will reconsider and just do a slightly bigger add-on thru resale.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Might we consider changes to the Closing Cost process a change? At first, there were no Closing Costs when buying direct. Then later, new buyers paid closing costs for direct where existing members were exempt. Now ... all direct buyers, new and existing, pay closing costs.

Existing owners were not grandfathered from this added cost for very long ...

I consider "grandfathering" a component that relates to the core of DVC, the POS, and the principles of the club as stated in the contract. I don't think changing operational fees a "component" of the club.

Good find though!

 

[ELMC]

To my knowledge disney has never NOT grandfathered in changes. If so, could you provide me an example. In all reality we have no idea what guides know, what they are privy to divulge, what they can't. So we only can go by what info the guides release. Maybe they know a grandfather policy exists? We can in no way anymore dispute or confirm what they say because they are in the know, we are not.

True. But we can question what they tell us because of the nature of timeshare salespeople (Disney or not) and the vested interest they have in telling us things that motivate us to buy. We can also compare what we hear from one salesperson to what we hear from another and identify inconsistencies. From your posts I can tell that you feel like you have a great relationship with your salesperson and I think that's wonderful. But would it surprise you to hear that he was only after the sale? With all due respect, I think you have placed too much trust in someone who only makes money if you buy something from him. Calling a timeshare salesperson a guide is like calling an IRS agent your financial adviser. I'm troubled by the whole situation.

 

[RobDoc]

I consider "grandfathering" a component that relates to the core of DVC, the POS, and the principles of the club as stated in the contract. I don't think changing operational fees a "component" of the club.

Good find though!

The things "grandfathered" for resales prior to March, 2011 were not part of the core of DVC, the POS or principles of the club as stated in the contract. They were all components that could be, and have been changed numerous times over the past 21+ years.

There have been many things some have considered to be part of the DVC program that have changed including, but not limited to, transfer rules (one-per-Use Year, then multiple per-Use Year, then back to one-per-Use Yea)r, World Passport Collection partner (RCI, then II, then RCI), DVC discounts and perks (BWV valet service, dining discounts, 10% discount on non-AP park passes), etc. .

Adding the expense for closing costs was certainly a blow to existing members when it went into effect. The cost was previously absorbed as part of the direct purchase and when added, IMO, lowered the direct sales more to what was an expected resale expense. With resales, many negotiate for the seller to cover those costs - with DVC is non-negotiable and all added to the costs for the uninformed new buyer who still has the pixie dust in his eyes.

 

[erikawolf2004]

I'll admit that I was toying with the idea of a 25 or 50 point add-on at BWV in the next few months, but I was having a hard time committing at $115 per point (minus a $500 credit), but $120?!?! That might make the decision for me.

How do I find out about this $500 credit? Is this availible for BCV? Is it good on 25 and 50 contracts?

How can I watch the webcast?

Erika

 

[DougEMG]

True. But we can question what they tell us because of the nature of timeshare salespeople (Disney or not) and the vested interest they have in telling us things that motivate us to buy. We can also compare what we hear from one salesperson to what we hear from another and identify inconsistencies. From your posts I can tell that you feel like you have a great relationship with your salesperson and I think that's wonderful. But would it surprise you to hear that he was only after the sale? With all due respect, I think you have placed too much trust in someone who only makes money if you buy something from him. Calling a timeshare salesperson a guide is like calling an IRS agent your financial adviser. I'm troubled by the whole situation.

Never trust someone who makes money by you taking the advice that they give you.

This is completely different then paying someone for advice who then has no further financial gains from wether you take the advice or not.

 

[DisneyFansInLINY]

Never trust someone who makes money by you taking the advice that they give you.

This is completely different then paying someone for advice who then has no further financial gains from wether you take the advice or not.

Excuse me but that statement is far from the truth! My husband is a financial advisor. Yes, he makes a commission off of his clients but he is actually helping them with the advice he gives them. And he doesn't lie to them either or push them into doing anything. His trustworthy advice and products are highly valuable to all.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The things "grandfathered" for resales prior to March, 2011 were not part of the core of DVC, the POS or principles of the club as stated in the contract. They were all components that could be, and have been changed numerous times over the past 21+ years.

There have been many things some have considered to be part of the DVC program that have changed including, but not limited to, transfer rules (one-per-Use Year, then multiple per-Use Year, then back to one-per-Use Yea)r, World Passport Collection partner (RCI, then II, then RCI), DVC discounts and perks (BWV valet service, dining discounts, 10% discount on non-AP park passes), etc. .

Adding the expense for closing costs was certainly a blow to existing members when it went into effect. The cost was previously absorbed as part of the direct purchase and when added, IMO, lowered the direct sales more to what was an expected resale expense. With resales, many negotiate for the seller to cover those costs - with DVC is non-negotiable and all added to the costs for the uninformed new buyer who still has the pixie dust in his eyes.

Changes you mentioned( RCI, transfers, II, etc) affected all contracts both resales and direct. So not really the same thing as the division made in March 2011.

 

[Missyrose]

Excuse me but that statement is far from the truth! My husband is a financial advisor. Yes, he makes a commission off of his clients but he is actually helping them with the advice he gives them. And he doesn't lie to them either or push them into doing anything. His trustworthy advice and products are highly valuable to all.

That isn't what Doug was saying. He was saying don't trust the person who will make money if you follow the advice they give you. Your husband doesn't make any additional money based on the decisions his clients make. He is simply paid for his advice. There's a big difference.

 

[RobDoc]

Changes you mentioned( RCI, transfers, II, etc) affected all contracts both resales and direct. So not really the same thing as the division made in March 2011.

My comments were addressing the suggestion regarding "part of the core of DVC, the POS or principles of the club as stated in the contract". The changes I mentioned were also in the documents and have also been changed - just like the removal of access for DC, CC and ABD for resale purchasers. The removed resale items were certainly NOT part of the "core stated in the documents".

I consider "core" components to be things like the 11 month reservation priority with at least a 1 month Home Resort advantage over owners at other resorts, the ability to rent, the ability of DVC to modify the POS as it desires without input from members, owners will always be able to reserve at their Home Resort (based on availability) even if not at other resorts, and a few others. The resale changes made after March, 2011 were NOT core components and we should all have been aware that those items could be removed for any or all members (and still could be removed at any time).