Completely 100% disgusted

[sjdisneywedding]

Actually you really want to know the best part?

when I contacted this seller about a simple question regarding some of the details listed in this auction, the only reply was to call him to directly discuss it.

I wonder why most questions I ask regarding Ebay listings are answered through email immedately and then most of the time posted within the auction itself for future bidders and this seller needs to dicsuss it privately over the phone

 

[sjdisneywedding]

3. What do people consider making a profit commercially? At over $100 per point and $5 per point in maintenance fees per year, how much are you really making in selling your points? Is 10% return on investment price gouging? I don't think so. Then 10% of $105/pt is $10.50 per point plus $5 per point is $15.50 per point. So not counting the costs of advertising, the headaches of renting, the numerous questions, the headaches from buyers, I don't think tha a commercial renter would think it a commercial enterprise to rent for $15.50 per point or probably $18 per point because that is only 10% return on investment with alot of work. Unless you are dealing with thousands and thousands of points, this is not a money making proposition. The DOW is up 13.3% year to date.
.

a profit is a profit, it doesnt make it more right or wrong that they are not making a large profit.

additionally, you gotta be kidding me if you think 10% is not a GREAT return for something as simple as renting your points. The scenario you describe above would have someone with a thousand points bringing in $10,000 a year with maintenance fees additionally covered.

 

[Plutofan]

a profit is a profit, it doesnt make it more right or wrong that they are not making a large profit.

additionally, you gotta be kidding me if you think 10% is not a GREAT return for something as simple as renting your points. The scenario you describe above would have someone with a thousand points bringing in $10,000 a year with maintenance fees additionally covered.

Actually the return is a lot less since rentals are subject to Florida and County use tax which is currently 12.5%. Now if you are not paying the tax and filing reports then that is another issue...

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Actually the return is a lot less since rentals are subject to Florida and County use tax which is currently 12.5%. Now if you are not paying the tax and filing reports then that is another issue...

lol, I hear ya, but something tells me some of the renters aint

 

[akk]

additionally, you gotta be kidding me if you think 10% is not a GREAT return for something as simple as renting your points. The scenario you describe above would have someone with a thousand points bringing in $10,000 a year with maintenance fees additionally covered.

A thousand points will cost you $105,000. If you think a $10,000 profit for trying to rent 1000 points is a great profit, then you must have some seriously bad investments. The DOW has averaged over 12% over the last 60 years including dividends and that takes NO WORK. So trying to rent 1000 points, which takes alot of work, and is a major headache, to make $10,000 on a $105,000 investment is a HORRIBLE investment. Renting your points is NOT a simple thing at all.

 

[Chuck S]

This thread is going off topic. We are NOT discussing whether renting points, commercial or otherwise, is a "good investment."

Please return it to the topic at hand, which by the OP is whether renting affects other DVC members and avalability, or it will be closed.

 

[themilesfamily]

To OP, I asked this yesterday, but how did you come to this determination of price for Commercial Renting? Do you work for Disney and they have now come to a price for Commercial Renting?

Are you looking for a cheap rental and upset that you aren't finding one? If you are so upset over renting, then buy and don't be part of the ones that rent.

That price range ($10-$11 for 2006) is not a number I came up with -- there is a webpage titled "Looking to Rent Points for your DVC Vacation: Here are some things you should know" that I came across while researching this whole issue. If the mod says it's okay, I will post the link.

Here is my story & how I got involved in the whole thing: Our family recently decided to purchase DVC. We are planning an October 2008 trip to Disney -- we were going to stay in a deluxe for the first time -- but then, the more we talked about it, decided it might be time to jump into DVC, as we are done having children and have some extra money to invest. We were planning to purchase points to stay in a DVC rental in October 2008, to try one out -- but I have to say, I am NOT a disgruntled renter or trying to get a cheap rental -- and I would happily pay $11/$12 per point to stay at DVC until we own. (The range at DISboards appears to be $9-$12 per point.) I am somewhat more leery about renting points, for fear of falling in with a commercial renter. Can you imagine showing up at Disney and finding out your ressies are canceled? That would be bad -- but even the ethics of renting from someone who is the equivalent of a ticket scalper bothers me.

I can't find any reason or excuse to legitimize what commercial renters are doing. If they want to make the timeshare industry their business, they are free to buy land and build a timeshare resort of their own -- not sell somebody else's for profit.

 

[themilesfamily]

I hope ya'll get your place real soon. Where are you buying?

Thanks, Bopsmom! As my previous post mentioned, it looks like October 2008 is when we will jump in. We haven't decided where yet, but I look forward to checking out the properties next fall!

I noticed that you own at Boardwalk -- great location!!! We love the Boardwalk -- my husband and I have had great times at the ESPN club -- he's a huge sports fan and would probably love the Boardwalk for that reason alone!

 

[kimberh]

That price range ($10-$11 for 2006) is not a number I came up with -- there is a webpage titled "Looking to Rent Points for your DVC Vacation: Here are some things you should know" that I came across while researching this whole issue. If the mod says it's okay, I will post the link.

Here is my story & how I got involved in the whole thing: Our family recently decided to purchase DVC. We are planning an October 2008 trip to Disney -- we were going to stay in a deluxe for the first time -- but then, the more we talked about it, decided it might be time to jump into DVC, as we are done having children and have some extra money to invest. We were planning to purchase points to stay in a DVC rental in October 2008, to try one out -- but I have to say, I am NOT a disgruntled renter or trying to get a cheap rental -- and I would happily pay $11/$12 per point to stay at DVC until we own. (The range at DISboards appears to be $9-$12 per point.) I am somewhat more leery about renting points, for fear of falling in with a commercial renter. Can you imagine showing up at Disney and finding out your ressies are canceled? That would be bad -- but even the ethics of renting from someone who is the equivalent of a ticket scalper bothers me.

I can't find any reason or excuse to legitimize what commercial renters are doing. If they want to make the timeshare industry their business, they are free to buy land and build a timeshare resort of their own -- not sell somebody else's for profit.

And I don't remember who made this argument....but the fact that YOUR personal success at reserving a unit during peak time hasn't been affected yet, doesn't make commercial renting okay or no big deal.

I rented before I bought, there is nothing wrong with this approach to trying DVC. For what it's worth, I paid more than $14.00 per point when I rented. I did not know any difference. I still saved a considerable amount over what Disney was charging, received a better room, and I was happy. We were so happy that I remembered about this board and relogged on and saw The Timeshare Store at the top. Called them and bought. I bought a contract with 3 years of surplus points, counting the current year. We had just returned from Disney, I sure wasn't turning around and going right back any time soon. I asked my broker," what was I to do with all the banked points?" The answer was to rent, a contract was even supplied to me, right off of the disboards. Being a Newbie and not knowing the feelings of renting that flowed like a Volocano off of the Dis toward renting, I was asking questions and flamed away!!! Still paying some sort of a price for it.

The point to all this, we can rent, we can charge what we want. Just because someone writes a book or webpage, that is their opinion. I am not a Commercial Renter. I don't have the 1000's of points. I don't buy points with the intent of renting them. The fact of the matter is, If you want a Boardwalk villa room with Boardwalk view, then you need to own there, If you want a Beach Club reservation in Oct or Easter, then you need to own there. If you want VWL in Dec, then you need to own there. If you want Concierge at AKV's, then you need to own there. Now, some where along the line there are extra points, what are DVC owners to do, let them expire to let others be happy on a Internet board?

We take our big family trip, I take my hubby only trips, we switch resorts around, We don't like staying in the same place over and over and over again. It's not us! I am a planner, I don't wait for the 7 month window and take my chances.

Thank you for answering my question. When you pay $86-$105 plus maintenance... depending on where you buy and the incentives being offered, you might see where the points are being rented for a cheap price.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

That price range ($10-$11 for 2006) is not a number I came up with -- there is a webpage titled "Looking to Rent Points for your DVC Vacation: Here are some things you should know" that I came across while researching this whole issue. If the mod says it's okay, I will post the link.

Here is my story & how I got involved in the whole thing: Our family recently decided to purchase DVC. We are planning an October 2008 trip to Disney -- we were going to stay in a deluxe for the first time -- but then, the more we talked about it, decided it might be time to jump into DVC, as we are done having children and have some extra money to invest. We were planning to purchase points to stay in a DVC rental in October 2008, to try one out -- but I have to say, I am NOT a disgruntled renter or trying to get a cheap rental -- and I would happily pay $11/$12 per point to stay at DVC until we own. (The range at DISboards appears to be $9-$12 per point.) I am somewhat more leery about renting points, for fear of falling in with a commercial renter. Can you imagine showing up at Disney and finding out your ressies are canceled? That would be bad -- but even the ethics of renting from someone who is the equivalent of a ticket scalper bothers me.

I can't find any reason or excuse to legitimize what commercial renters are doing. If they want to make the timeshare industry their business, they are free to buy land and build a timeshare resort of their own -- not sell somebody else's for profit.

I would not get to worried about renting for yourself, if you do your research beforehand. The disboards has quite a few rules in place for rentals on this site. Its not ever going to be 100% safe, someone could always be fraudelant, but overall there are many good rentals that stem from here

 

[themilesfamily]

I am not a Commercial Renter. I don't have the 1000's of points. I don't buy points with the intent of renting them.

Kimberh, if my original post made you feel personally targeted in any way, I do apologize!! I certainly didn't think you were a commercial renter or post this because of something of yours that I came across. What I saw that originally concerned me was on a whole different website.

As for the pricing of points, someone (it may have been you kimberh), mentioned that they didn't like the points going for as low as $9-$10 -- I wonder if people offering them at $9 are people with points that are JUST about to expire? Perhaps they have a short period of time to rent them and think they'll have better luck at $9 rather than $11 or $12. Better to get $9 than lose them. I could be totally wrong about that -- but it's something that crossed my mind.

SJDisneywedding, that was SO interesting to hear about the EBay seller who would only discuss details over the phone. That is EXACTLY the kind of shady business I want to avoid. What is so secretive that it can't be put in writing? Thanks for all of your comments on this thread -- I have really enjoyed reading them!

 

[kimberh]

Kimberh, if my original post made you feel personally targeted in any way, I do apologize!! I certainly didn't think you were a commercial renter or post this because of something of yours that I came across. What I saw that originally concerned me was on a whole different website.

As for the pricing of points, someone (it may have been you kimberh), mentioned that they didn't like the points going for as low as $9-$10 -- I wonder if people offering them at $9 are people with points that are JUST about to expire? Perhaps they have a short period of time to rent them and think they'll have better luck at $9 rather than $11 or $12. Better to get $9 than lose them. I could be totally wrong about that -- but it's something that crossed my mind.

SJDisneywedding, that was SO interesting to hear about the EBay seller who would only discuss details over the phone. That is EXACTLY the kind of shady business I want to avoid. What is so secretive that it can't be put in writing? Thanks for all of your comments on this thread -- I have really enjoyed reading them!

I can't speak for those charging $9.00 per point, I think it hurts all of us. They may have not banked their points or it may be banked points that are getting ready to expire, who knows. The problem with that is it makes people want most rentals at those prices. Once a DVC is bought at 2006-2007 prices and the maintenance fees go up every year, (Or they have since I have been in) there is a huge loss with that price.

There are people out there that will have DVC owners book the reservation, agree on the rate, then try to get them down to $8.00 per point. This happped to a friend of mine... Akv's no less. Points are brand new, no distress to them. Of course, the reservation was cancelled. I do hope you find what you are looking for! Wishing you Good luck with your search.

 

[themilesfamily]

There are people out there that will have DVC owners book the reservation, agree on the rate, then try to get them down to $8.00 per point. This happped to a friend of mine... Akv's no less. Points are brand new, no distress to them. Of course, the reservation was cancelled.

NOT COOL! How do these people live with themselves?

I think that's a great example of bad behavior on the other side of the equation!

Thanks for the well-wishes -- we are so excited about becoming DVC'ers!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Miles Family - it says that you are "earning your ears". I'd like to think that you have already earned them and are well on the way to being a regular Dis'er. You've taken a thread that started out pretty good, got a little deep in the muck, and brought it right up to the top. You are my kind of people. Hope to be welcoming you home in the near future.

 

[themilesfamily]

Miles Family - it says that you are "earning your ears". I'd like to think that you have already earned them and are well on the way to being a regular Dis'er. You've taken a thread that started out pretty good, got a little deep in the muck, and brought it right up to the top. You are my kind of people. Hope to be welcoming you home in the near future.

Thanks, that is SO nice! I'll let you all know where we end up for a home resort, as soon as we buy in!

 

[PoohsGang]

To OP, I asked this yesterday, but how did you come to this determination of price for Commercial Renting? Do you work for Disney and they have now come to a price for Commercial Renting?




Asked and Ignored...



Are you looking for a cheap rental and upset that you aren't finding one? If you are so upset over renting, then buy and don't be part of the ones that rent.

This from DVC member services direct today.
Kind of vague didnt really answer my question.

My question to DVC:Is commercial leaseing of DVC units like this one on EBAY allowed?

Disney Beach Club Timeshare Rental Studio 12/23-12/28
Sold Out Christmas Dates SAVE $$$ Also have 11/12-11/16 Item number:
130160676675

There answer:
Thank you for the information regarding the selling of vacation points.


In the Vacation Magic / July 2006 appeared the following:


Policies to protect personal use and enjoyment

In a continuing effort to maximize Members personal enjoyment of their
Membership, Disney Vacation Club would like to remind Members about
several related policies outlined in the Public Offering Statement and
other Member documents.

As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and
recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of
Owners, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by
corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit.

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted
purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may
cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for
profit is discovered.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
---

Disney Vacation Club has always maintained that Club Members are
expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for the rental of
accommodations under their Membership or engaging in any Transfer
activity for profit. You may refer to your Public Offering Statement to review these policies or consult with Quality Assurance at (800)
782-6767 to review how the product was represented at the time of your
purchase.


Again thank you for the information and this will be forwarded to the
appropriate department. Your name will not be disclosed.





Seems like the same spin our politicians use, an answer with no direct answer.

Maybe someone else can figure out what they reponded to me with?????

 

[DVC4All]

Sorry, I will resubmit

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Sad but true. I try not to think about it, it lessens my enjoyment of my membership, and I can't have anything doing that. Ignorance is bliss and I try to maintain ignorance at all times (bliss too). Ever since the Mush scandal I've decided there are certain things I'm just better off not knowing.

Can somebody tell me what the Mush scandal is and what the "bright line" test is? This is the first time I've heard those terms

For us, when I can't book my points the way I'd like to anymore for my family vacations, then I'll sell the dvc membership. I'm emotionally attached to Disney, but I'm not emotionally attached to the dvc.

Well, maybe a little bit, but if it turns from a convenience into an inconvenience I would dump it.

 

[DVC4All]

sorry but that just a completely uninformed statement
there have plenty of examples over the past, too numerous to even list, where members have called at the earliest possible time only to be without a ressie.

you are completely 100% underestimating commerical renters
either you are one or you just dont truly understand the impact

I have never had a problem getting anything at the 11 month window.
Have You?
Has anyone here?
Can you give me any examples?

If I wanted a Grand Villa at the BW for Christmas week I'd call day by day exactly 11 months out at 9AM EST.

lets get real here, EBAY is THE leading vehicle to rent points for a profit. Most people are not selling their points on ebay to LOSE money. doesnt mean everyone is or everyone will make a profit, but thats the clear intent

I'll bet more points are rented on these boards than on eBay. As far as "for a profit" goes, I don't think the price is an issue; and neither does DVC by the way. Of course, I believe DVC understands that how much an individual rents their timeshare for has no bearing on whether or not a person is a commercial renter; indeed, when DVC sent out the letters to possible commercial renters not a word about price or price per point was in there.

of course they do! thats not commercial renting, the issue is when they use the majority of those 2000 points to rent out several weeks for profit. You keep mentioning profit. It is everyone's right in this country to make a profit if they want to; profit is really a non-issue. It is everyone's right in this country to advertise their timeshare where ever they want; eBay is really a non-issue. I understand it upsets people here to see prime weeks listed on eBay for a high price, and perhaps some of these people tried unsuccessfully to get these dates, but that does not make someone a commercial renter. Indeed, if you go on eBay, I'd say that almost every person on eBay renting DVC is not a commercial renter. DVC chased them away.

As for renting the majority of 2000 points, if an owner has 2000 and is in the same position as akk,

The point of all this is that I got caught in the "buy more" bug and have way too many points for now as my children do not want to go to Disney 3x per year anymore and have expanded their tastes in vacations (and no longer eat just chicken fingers and french fries) and the the trading of Disney and the other vacations are either not as easy as DVC claims or not a good value. Until I have grandchildren, I will have more points than I need. I don't want to sell the points, but wish that their was an easier, and somewhat profitable (but obviously not price gouging and commercializing) way to get rid of my extra points for now. I think $9-$10 per point is selling short.

their only option to selling, giving away points, giving away vacations, and letting their points expire is renting them.
I don't have a problem with that and neither does DVC.

Do you?
If you do, why do you?

UMMM I would ask what the heck are you looking?? they all are either during Thanksgiving week. Christmas week, or new years week. with only one not directly inculding the holiday day itself

I am looking at what was 5 auctions:
1 was the sale of the contract and it has ended, leaving 4;
1, as you have said, does not include a holiday leaving 3;
3 are for prime weeks.

lol this is too much. you either must have been really tired or really fired up that someone is trying to bring down commercail renting.

Perhaps there is more than just the two reasons that you mention: I do not agree with some of the opinions here; I think this thread needed my voice; I am having fun!
I gave you 3 possible other reasons.

So maybe I wasn't really tired and I am not fired up at all.

the best part of the whole deal, it that this seller is currently selling 230 OKW points and 250 SSR points. Maybe all these posts on Ebay are legit because they just cant use the points anymore

So you agree that this person may not be a commercial renter, thank you for seeing this possibility.

Then is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

I believe we reap what we sow.
There is talk of reporting this person to DVC and the tax collector, actions that can hurt this person without knowing anything about their circumstances. Are they commercial renters? Did they lose their job? Are they terminally ill? Is a member of their family ill? If someone feels so strongly about this why not email the renter and talk to them before condemning and attacking them verbally and reporting them.

I wonder if they would let their spouses and children know they have reported this person and also let them read this; I doubt it.

Actually you really want to know the best part? when I contacted this seller about a simple question regarding some of the details listed in this auction, the only reply was to call him to directly discuss it.

So if you wanted answers why didn't you call him?

Does the fact that this seller preferred to talk on the phone rather than communicate through email make him a bad guy?
Is that really the "best part"?

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I have never had a problem getting anything at the 11 month window.
Have You?
Has anyone here?
Can you give me any examples?

If I wanted a Grand Villa at the BW for Christmas week I'd call day by day exactly 11 months out at 9AM EST.

Im not going to do the research for you, there have been plenty of examples and as far as calling day by day you still may nopt get it, theres been examples of that as well

I am looking at what was 5 auctions:
1 was the sale of the contract and it has ended, leaving 4;
1, as you have said, does not include a holiday leaving 3;
3 are for prime weeks.

just because it doesnt include the holiday day itself doesnt make it a non prime week/time

they were all prime weeks

So you agree that this person may not be a commercial renter, thank you for seeing this possibility.

Then is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

yes I agree, of course I agree with that
I am not attacking any single person, I am discussing commercial renting in general
however, actions speak louder than words

I believe we reap what we sow.
There is talk of reporting this person to DVC and the tax collector, actions that can hurt this person without knowing anything about their circumstances. Are they commercial renters? Did they lose their job? Are they terminally ill? Is a member of their family ill? If someone feels so strongly about this why not email the renter and talk to them before condemning and attacking them verbally and reporting them.

I wonder if they would let their spouses and children know they have reported this person and also let them read this; I doubt it.

I am not soley discussing this person or those 5 auctions, all those situations you describe are, of course, difficult situations, but you dont make rules and not follow through with them being upheld because of the those rare occurances.

bottom line is I am discussing commercial renting. its not allowed.

So if you wanted answers why didn't you call him?

Does the fact that this seller preferred to talk on the phone rather than communicate through email make him a bad guy?
Is that really the "best part"?

I did not call because I already had my answer in my opinion. I never done business with anyone on ebay asking for my phone number to discuss concerns/questions over the phone before a bid was even placed. That to me screams they are screening the people asking the questions that they find not to their liking