Comparing points to cash - not sure what to take away from it...

[skier_pete]

I am new to DVC and have yet to travel on our first vacation, but I am also the type that really wants to understand how the system works.

Here’s something I came across over weekend that I got me thinking – why is it the cost of a room in dollars at a DVC resort NOT equivalent to the number of points required?

An example of what I’m talking about: One week stay at Saratoga Springs Resort in October 2014.
A studio costs $2,470 for one week, or with DVC costs 104 points
A 1-bedroom costs $3,369 for one week, with DVC costs 206 points
A 2-bedroom costs $4,821 for one week, or with DVC costs 262 points

A studio has a “value” of $23.75 / point
A 1-bedroom has a “value” of $16.35 / point
A 2-bedroom has a “value” of $18.40 / point

Another example, a one week stay at Boardwalk (standard view) in October 2014.
A studio costs $2,817 for one week, or with DVC costs 78 points
A 1-bedroom costs $3,941 for one week, with DVC costs 166 points
(There were no 2-bedrooms available to compare.)

A studio has a “value” of $36.11 / point
A 1-bedroom has a “value” of $23.77 / point

An third example: One week stay at AKV – Kidani w/ Savannah View in October 2014.
A studio costs $3354 for one week, or with DVC costs 116 points
A 1-bedroom costs $4595 for one week, with DVC costs 223 points
A 2-bedroom costs $6637 for one week, or with DVC costs 296 points

A studio has a “value” of $28.90 / point
A 1-bedroom has a “value” of $20.60 / point
A 2-bedroom has a “value” of $22.42 / point

I couldn’t price compare much else, because it seemed most of the villas were sold out for the fall and they wouldn’t let me check past the end of December, but I just thought that this was very interesting. I wondered why DVC feels that a 1-bedroom is worth close to twice the points on the DVC market. I realize it is about twice the square footage, but to me it is not worth twice the points, though clearly to some people it is. What this points out is that the Disney (the hotel side) doesn’t think it’s worth twice the cost either, and typically only charges about 35-40 % more for a 1-bedroom. I guess a way to look at it is perhaps they actually charge the general public a PREMIUM on the studio, simply because they need to charge the same as they would for a hotel room in the hotel.

It also points out that points used at each resort don’t all have the same dollar value. I suppose it should be no surprise that the value of your points usage is BWV > AKV > SSR. Should that affect the resort you buy in? Does that mean it makes less sense to buy at SSR, where you’re points have a much lower cash value? Or is it the opposite, that using SSR points at BWV allows you to boost the value of your points.

Now I know some will argue that it is unfair to compare points to cash, and in part I would agree it isn’t really apples to apples, but I just think it makes for interesting thoughts.

 

[JimMIA]

First of all, I think you are hugely over-thinking things!

Secondly, you are comparing apples and elephants. The inventory available for cash rentals through CRO is a completely different inventory than points inventory.

There is no relative-value calculation in Disney's rental rates -- they charge what the traffic will bear. Some resorts will rent for a higher price than others, and some time periods are more pricey than others because of plain old supply and demand. For example, you are comparing prices in October -- which is Food and Wine Festival at Epcot and one of the most in-demand times of the year for BWV and BCV.

Third, I think the only valid price comparison anyone should use is between their actual costs for a particular lodging using DVC points vs. a cash option they would actually use. It makes no sense to compare DVC points to a $4K-$6K reservation unless you would actually PAY those prices in the real world. Just because someone would pay a crazy rate doesn't mean it's a valid comparison for you or me.

 

[skier_pete]

First of all, I think you are hugely over-thinking things!

Secondly, you are comparing apples and elephants. The inventory available for cash rentals through CRO is a completely different inventory than points inventory.

There is no relative-value calculation in Disney's rental rates -- they charge what the traffic will bear. Some resorts will rent for a higher price than others, and some time periods are more pricey than others because of plain old supply and demand. For example, you are comparing prices in October -- which is Food and Wine Festival at Epcot and one of the most in-demand times of the year for BWV and BCV.

Third, I think the only valid price comparison anyone should use is between their actual costs for a particular lodging using DVC points vs. a cash option they would actually use. It makes no sense to compare DVC points to a $4K-$6K reservation unless you would actually PAY those prices in the real world. Just because someone would pay a crazy rate doesn't mean it's a valid comparison for you or me.

Yeah, in the end as I said, I don't think it is a very fair comparison. As I was looking at the prices I just found it interesting more than anything. "Apples to Elephants" I like that! I don't think it's THAT far different a comparison. Maybe "Apples to Walnuts" There MUST be people out there that pay those rates, or else they wouldn't set aside any inventory for it! And again, the rate they charge for the studio is likely very comparable to what they are charging for a hotel room.

As you said, many would never even consider staying at any of these resorts at the rates of $370 a night and up. That's part of what has me excited about buying into DVC, staying at resorts I never could have stayed at otherwise.

 

[JimMIA]

A better price comparison would be to establish your real-world cost per point and multiply that times the number of points required for an actual vacation you would take.

I'll use my OKW points as an illustration. My acquisition cost was about $2 per point. 2014 dues are $5.54, so my cost would be $7.54 per point.

If I get a one-bedroom at OKW for a week in October, that's 174 points X $7.54 = $1,311.96

If I get a one-bedroom at GFV during the same period, it will cost 321 points X $7.54 = $2,420.34.

Those are examples of real-world comparisons. GFV is about 84% more expensive than OKW...for the same accommodations, during that one time period. Change the resorts, accommodations, seasons, etc, and you change the numbers completely.

 

[skier_pete]

A better price comparison would be to establish your real-world cost per point and multiply that times the number of points required for an actual vacation you would take.

I'll use my OKW points as an illustration. My acquisition cost was about $2 per point. 2014 dues are $5.54, so my cost would be $7.54 per point.

If I get a one-bedroom at OKW for a week in October, that's 174 points X $7.54 = $1,311.96

If I get a one-bedroom at GFV during the same period, it will cost 321 points X $7.54 = $2,420.34.

Those are examples of real-world comparisons. GFV is about 84% more expensive than OKW...for the same accommodations, during that one time period. Change the resorts, accommodations, seasons, etc, and you change the numbers completely.

Agree totally with what your saying. I was just trying to comment that it was interesting comparing the cash rates at the various resorts to the point values, and especially when comparing them to eachother at the different rooms sizes.

 

[disneynutz]

Yeah, in the end as I said, I don't think it is a very fair comparison. As I was looking at the prices I just found it interesting more than anything. "Apples to Elephants" I like that! I don't think it's THAT far different a comparison. Maybe "Apples to Walnuts" There MUST be people out there that pay those rates, or else they wouldn't set aside any inventory for it! And again, the rate they charge for the studio is likely very comparable to what they are charging for a hotel room.

As you said, many would never even consider staying at any of these resorts at the rates of $370 a night and up. That's part of what has me excited about buying into DVC, staying at resorts I never could have stayed at otherwise.

I suggest that you stop deep thinking about the DVC. You can find all kinds of things that don't seem to make sense in the real world but apparently it does in Disney's world.

My biggest "why" is if everyone agrees that DVC/Disney can do a better job cleaning and maintaining rooms, why don't they? The resorts know what's going on, DVC knows what's going on, guests who have had problems know what's going on, yet it never seems to change or improve.

We were in a 1 bedroom at OKW, the flatware drawer in the kitchen was missing and the flatware was laying on the counter. The dishwasher was broken so I called maintenance. The two CM's that responded told me that the dishwasher timer was broken and that they had noted it the week before. I asked about the missing drawer and was told that "months" before the broken drawer was taken to the shop for repair but it wasn't a priority.

Bill

 

[JimMIA]

We were in a 1 bedroom at OKW, the flatware drawer in the kitchen was missing and the flatware was laying on the counter. The dishwasher was broken so I called maintenance. The two CM's that responded told me that the dishwasher timer was broken and that they had noted it the week before. I asked about the missing drawer and was told that "months" before the broken drawer was taken to the shop for repair but it wasn't a priority.

We've never (in 30+ trips) had a cleanliness or maintenance problem that wasn't resolved with one phone call. Having said that, your experience with the drawer and dishwasher is ridiculous. There is no excuse for having a unit in inventory with those problems.

Did the CM's FIX the problems, or did they just give you lip service? Did you speak to anyone in management about the issue?

I would have complained long and loud, both about the problems and the employees flippant attitudes.

 

[disneynutz]

We've never (in 30+ trips) had a cleanliness or maintenance problem that wasn't resolved with one phone call. Having said that, your experience with the drawer and dishwasher is ridiculous. There is no excuse for having a unit in inventory with those problems.

Did the CM's FIX the problems, or did they just give you lip service? Did you speak to anyone in management about the issue?

I would have complained long and loud, both about the problems and the employees flippant attitudes.

I wouldn't say that they were flippant, just truthful. They were aware of the dishwasher problem, don't know if they were waiting on a part or a serviceman, but it wasn't repaired during our stay. The drawer wasn't returned either.

I think that's when I really began to realize that what's important to us, is just another day at work for the CM's. They are putting out fires all day long, dealing with irate guests, prioritizing water leaks and broken drawers. Processing people day after day while being expected to smile and make us feel special for $9.50 per hour.

An older resort like OKW doesn't have spare drawers laying around, they have to make a new one or fix the old. That takes time which they don't have.

I always go to the front desk and talk to management and follow up with member satisfaction but then again, they deal with these issues everyday. MS would tell me "thank you for letting them know" and how they will "make sure that the appropriate people get notified". After a few years, we all knew each other and one of the CM's flat out told me that they list the issue on a report but that's about it. They also admitted that the DVC doesn't have any power over the resort and all they can do is bring problems to their attention, same as me.

It is what it is. On a positive note our last few stays have been pretty much issue free.

Bill