Commerical Use Policy Update - New Thread!

[Kingkonig]

I'd expand on the earlier comment and suggest legal wasn't yet ready to release the in-process documents even if 99% mature. They released what was enough to satisfy their obligation to fulfill the request from you. If they release a new statement or doc in a day/week/month it in no ways reflects on what was provided to you. Companies supersede policies with new ones all the time.

I don't think what was provided to you is indicative of there not being a more stringent policy in the drafting phase.

On top of that, as long as they haven’t officially adopted the new policy, it can be fully complete and they wouldn’t have to provide it.

If it is complete but they decide to have it take effect (or begin the required notice period) on Oct 1, they wouldn’t have to provide it as the official policy in July.

 

[Sandisw]

And people here are parroting it as gospel.

People are reporting what the board actually stated.

As someone who was there, they stated that both commercial renting and walking are not widespread practices.

So, until they indicate it’s more, that was their offical position back at the meeting.

Of course, people can discount it if they want…but that was the on the record statement at the HOS meeting.

 

[muppets3d]

People are reporting what the board actually stated.

As someone who was there, they stated that both commercial renting and walking are not widespread practices.

So, until they indicate it’s more, that was their offical position back at the meeting.

Of course, people can discount it if they want…but that was the on the record statement at the HOS meeting.

So let's put a ban on renting up to ballot and see if it passes. If it's not widespread and a small percentage, majority will rule. Certainly Disney would prefer that we don't rent because it cuts into their revenue.

 

[Sandisw]

So let's put a ban on renting up to ballot and see if it passes. If it's not widespread and a small percentage, majority will rule. Certainly Disney would prefer that we don't rent because it cuts into their revenue.

Again, any owner who wants to attempt to put something to vote can try at their home resort.

But, read the POS as it explains what owners would need to do, including that DVD, as long as they own. has to approve it.

The amendment would also have to be in line with FL 718 and FL721 and then approved by the division that oversees timeshare.

I am 100% positive DVD knows they legally can’t stop all renting, based on the FL statutes.

Not to mention that the board stated they support it for owners, as long as it’s not commercial.

 

[mkatsy]

DVC execs said that commercial renting is just a small percentage.

I don’t believe that is an untruthful statement. Only a small percentage of owners buy contracts in $200,000 clips. It requires the backing of a private equity firm, and a system to track and move the points. I can count on one hand the people with the means to pull this off.

 

[BeachClub2014]

As someone who was there, they stated that both commercial renting and walking are not widespread practices.

Not to derail the discussion, but the issue with this type of public corporate-speak is that it lacks scale or context. What does "not widespread" actually mean? What's the metric used to determine whether these practices are, or are not widespread?

I'm guessing the execs anticipated the questions, were prepared with pat answers to acknowledge the concern, reassured members that it isn't a big deal, they're looking at ways to address the problems, and they hope to not have to address it again come next December.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Not to derail the discussion, but the issue with this type of public corporate-speak is that it lacks scale or context. What does "not widespread" actually mean? What's the metric used to determine whether these practices are, or are not widespread?

I'm guessing the execs anticipated the questions, were prepared with pat answers to acknowledge the concern, reassured members that it isn't a big deal, they're looking at ways to address the problems, and they hope to not have to address it again come next December.

Unless something more is coming or happening the board will get more questions.

What strikes me as odd is since the DVC rental store is telling clients that they should say that they are guests of an LLC. It’s as if they DONT KNOW the policy.

Maybe they are unaware of their wrongdoing

 

[BeachClub2014]

Unless something more is coming or happening the board will get more questions.

What strikes me as odd is since the DVC rental store is telling clients that they should say that they are guests of an LLC. It’s as if they DONT KNOW the policy.

Maybe they are unaware of their wrongdoing

Oh, I think there is still more to come from DVC on both issues: renting and walking of reservations.

 

[Sandisw]

Not to derail the discussion, but the issue with this type of public corporate-speak is that it lacks scale or context. What does "not widespread" actually mean? What's the metric used to determine whether these practices are, or are not widespread?

I'm guessing the execs anticipated the questions, were prepared with pat answers to acknowledge the concern, reassured members that it isn't a big deal, they're looking at ways to address the problems, and they hope to not have to address it again come next December.

True, but on the other hand, it could also have not been corporate speak and what they stated was actually an accurate assessment of the situation and what their intentions would be going forward.

They did indicate that they hoped owners would see improvement, but also added the caveat that they planned to go after this "as best they could"

My point is that so far, everything offical coming out of DVC and the board has been they want to stop large point owners who are clearly commerically renting, and that they assigned members of Yvonne's team to that task, and gave them the resources to tackle it.

We know they have done two major things - filed an amendement to the multi-site POS and HRR to update the tranfser rules and implemented the updated language to the check box, as well as having chat and MS require owners to attest to it.

Of course, they can update things anytime they want....just like we could find out tomorrow that they want the home resort booking period to go to one month vs 4 months...but, the fact is that they did choose to roll out the new changes in June without an amendement to the official commercial purpose policy,,,knowing full well it would cause owners to have a lot of questions

 

[DVCPAT]

So let's put a ban on renting up to ballot and see if it passes. If it's not widespread and a small percentage, majority will rule. Certainly Disney would prefer that we don't rent because it cuts into their revenue.

How do you know renting cuts into their revenue? DVC points are bought and paid for. Maybe renters spend more money onsite than DVC members.

 

[BeachClub2014]

True, but on the other hand, it could also have not been corporate speak and what they stated was actually an accurate assessment of the situation and what their intentions would be going forward.

They did indicate that they hoped owners would see improvement, but also added the caveat that they planned to go after this "as best they could"

My point is that so far, everything offical coming out of DVC and the board has been they want to stop large point owners who are clearly commerically renting, and that they assigned members of Yvonne's team to that task, and gave them the resources to tackle it.

We know they have done two major things - filed an amendement to the multi-site POS and HRR to update the tranfser rules and implemented the updated language to the check box, as well as having chat and MS require owners to attest to it.

Of course, they can update things anytime they want....just like we could find out tomorrow that they want the home resort booking period to go to one month vs 4 months...but, the fact is that they did choose to roll out the new changes in June without an amendement to the official commercial purpose policy,,,knowing full well it would cause owners to have a lot of questions.

But, I personally do not believe we are in for any major changes because the board's statements were very clear on that....that unintended consquences would play a big role in any operational changes.....especially for rule changes to implact walking.

That's certainly a possibility, but none of us knows that to any degree of certainty, as there's no scale or context.

I wouldn't describe these changes as major. I actually think they are pretty weak and hope/believe that there is yet more to come.

Efforts to anticipate and mitigate unintended consequences should be a key consideration in the planning process for any operational changes that may be on the horizon. I would hope and think that any consequences owners may face are intended.

 

[muppets3d]

How do you know renting cuts into their revenue? DVC points are bought and paid for. Maybe renters spend more money onsite than DVC members.

DVC makes income when a guest books a room for cash vs they make nothing when we use our points, because our dues only cover maintenance and upkeep.

 

[Sandisw]

That's certainly a possibility, but none of us knows that to any degree of certainty, as there's no scale or context.

I wouldn't describe these changes as major. I actually think they are pretty weak and hope/believe that there is yet more to come.

Efforts to anticipate and mitigate unintended consequences should be a key consideration in the planning process for any operational changes that may be on the horizon. I would hope and think that any consequences owners may face are intended.

I know from being there how it was conveyed to us in the audience especially when the answer regarding operational changes and and walking was was a direct response to me when I shared concerns about losing flexibility.

But we all have to wait to see if further changes are coming and be sure to contact DVC to seek answers or share thoughts!

 

[Sandisw]

DVC makes income when a guest books a room for cash vs they make nothing when we use our points, because our dues only cover maintenance and upkeep.

Not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

 

[Brianstl]

People are reporting what the board actually stated.

As someone who was there, they stated that both commercial renting and walking are not widespread practices.

So, until they indicate it’s more, that was their offical position back at the meeting.

Of course, people can discount it if they want…but that was the on the record statement at the HOS meeting.

I don’t think it is the board call to determine on their own if it is a problem or not. The board members aren’t the ones that are getting locked out of making the reservations they want by the practices of commercial renters. Not acting against commercial renters could easily be viewed as a failure of their fiduciary duty to members by not even minimally enforcing their own policy for a decade plus.

 

[IMMkXLVI]

There is no evidence provided to owners to support there would be new policy…. the board never stated they planned any policy changes.

Of course rules can change at any time…It’s a given.

But the fact is they added the check box 6 months in and did not officially change the policy, almost 7 months later.

So, until we get a new document filed with the state that is updated?

EThe 2011 policy is the offical one.

ETA. At what point, would their offical statements and actions or lack there be a clue to their stance in reference to this?

I've no doubt that what they sent you is the official policy and guidance for cast members, as of today.

If they are internally working on an updated policy or finalizing one through legal, there is no reason for them to disclose this ahead of time. It would only result in a litany of questions and emails which they won't answer and serves no useful purpose. I doubt they are contractually obligated to notify owners of a future policy change since the language in almost all documents probably already illudes to this.

If there is one in the works, we'll know when they want us to know.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I've no doubt that what they sent you is the official policy and guidance for cast members, as of today.

If they are internally working on an updated policy or finalizing one through legal, there is no reason for them to disclose this ahead of time. It would only result in a litany of questions and emails which they won't answer and serves no useful purpose. I doubt they are contractually obligated to notify owners of a future policy change since the language in almost all documents probably already illudes to this.

If there is one in the works, we'll know when they want us to know.

If you are right and I think you are then we basically need to keep requesting the policy, either monthly or quarterly. At some point we will get the new policy IF one is coming that is.

 

[muppets3d]

Not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

When dvc sells a room for cash to a cash paying guest they make money, versus when we book a room using our points and rent it out ourselves. So it would seem to me that dvc would want to eliminate excessive renting because they will presumably earn income. Some guests that would have rented points will book the room for cash directly from Disney instead.

 

[DonMacGregor]

How do you know renting cuts into their revenue? DVC points are bought and paid for. Maybe renters spend more money onsite than DVC members.

If I purchase 100 points and use them to make a reservation for myself, and the John Doe family pays Disney cash for a room at WDW, then Disney has made money on the point sale as well as the cash room. Plus, I am on property during my point stay spending money on other things (food, merch, theme park tickets, etc.), and the John Doe family is also spending money on those things as well during their cash stay.

If I purchase 100 points and rent them to the John Doe family, then Disney has only made money on the point sale, and the John Doe family is paying ME to stay in a room at WDW. Further, only the John Doe family is spending that extra money on food, merch, etc. as I am not staying at WDW since I rented my points to John Doe.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t think it is the board call to determine on their own if it is a problem or not. The board members aren’t the ones that are getting locked out of making the reservations they want by the practices of commercial renters. Not acting against commercial renters could easily be viewed as a failure of their fiduciary duty by not even minimally enforcing their own policy for a decade plus.

The board is the one that gets to define commercial purposes though any way they want. They give DVCMC the authority to enforce

Unfortunately, there is also something in the contract that basically gives them the option to not enforce things

As owners, we don’t have the right to view what types of reservations actually exist and by whom so in the end, only the boards assessment counts.