Giving up rights is a hard sell, and outside of a few room classes it is not the issue with the general public that people think it is. Add up SSR and OKW and POLY owners and I bet none of them have an 11 month issue.
Life is too short! Don’t forget we still have a fantastic product in DVC and next time you are sat in your favourite villa enjoying yourself none of this will matter.
100% agree with you, the rule as written is silly. I cannot see how someone like you with (say) 19 reservations in his name and 2 rentals is a commercial renter, while someone with 20 rentals is not.
For all the infighting in this thread members on members, saying if only 10% 30% or 60% of points could be rented for personal use, wouldn't crack down on LLCs bring better immediate results, be easier from a legal standpoint, and avoid anyone being caught in friendly fire?
This this this. If they will be punishing those of us who go often and treat family/friends with extra rooms (year after year) when we need to rent 5-10% of our stranded points on occasion, especially instead of cracking down on the people renting 100% of their points spread across < 20 reservations year after year, they are going to have another legal problem on their hands from angry Disney owners who actually are engaging in personal use. I think the common wisdom on the thread is probably not what Disney will actually do, because it seems at odds with their fiduciary obligation to stop commercial renting.
I can never tell if you are serious or tongue in cheek, but I think I see it the same way you do. If Disney were to officially bless up to half or more of total reservations being rentals up to 19 (or 20), I would seriously think about picking up 250 points at BWV, turning them into $6000-7000 a year in studio rentals, then take my remaining points and spend them on (much) fewer but larger villa trips.
Thank you for your guinea pig service.
I agree but I would go a step further and say that if you don’t have a background in contract law, ideally FL contract law and FL-specific timeshare law, you should not form any strong opinions of what Disney can and can’t do (let alone what they will do) without talking to someone who is…and no, us anonymous DVC owner lawyers on a message board don’t count.
For us, it’s about 10-12 at DLR (our local park, sometimes with a second room), plus maybe 6-8 stays at WDW (often bookending a cruise on each end), and then the once a year trip to AUL (that often ends up being 2 reservations if we split up rooms)— I’m not even that close to owning 1000 points. Wondering if the member cruise counts as well since it shows up in my dashboard.
Amazing 3am post. I agree with all of it.Here's my random 3am thoughts...
I would like to see an end to the CONFIRMED rental listings that are more than 60 days out. If an owner wants to rent out their points to cover their dues, cool! They just have to have a confirmed renter before they make the reservation. I have no idea what DVC could do to control this without causing an issue with all members. I've read of the idea of limiting name changes on the reservation, making changes to reservations made at the 11-month window a "cancel/rebook" situation, and charging for changes and all of those ideas seem to do more overall harm than good.
We used to talk about renting "points", which then turned into "well, you're actually renting a reservation"....and now, you are ACTUALLY renting a reservation....and I think that has become the problem. If we regressed back to the system where people went online and said, "Hey, I want to stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge in August of 2026. Can you find me an owner with points to rent so I can make a reservation?" I think the system would work a lot better. Instead, we have bots and commercial renters who are scooping up weeks at a time and now, renters have to go online and try to find weeks or clumps of days that work for them. At the same time, owners are seeing their dates sitting unavailable and waitlisted on their member dashboard while the rental sites list them available for thousands of dollars. Those dates were not scooped up by "someone". There is nobody staying in those rooms...yet...it is a "ghost" reservation. Owners should not be competing with "ghosts" at the 11-month window. If a renter wants to rent points for an AKV value studio and an owner books that room for them at 11 months out, GREAT! That's fine...as an AKV owner, I do not have an issue competing with other owners who are booking rooms for GUESTS at 11 months. I *DO* have an issue with booking reservations for GHOSTS. If an owner has points that are going to expire, or they have a "last minute" trip that they cannot take, then listing a confirmed reservation that is 60 days out would be acceptable. That follows the holding points guidelines that members have to follow so it seems fair to hold spec rentals to the same rules.
....that's the end of my 3am ramblings...must have coffee and head to real job now
Very brave to tell renters to tell DVC they are part of DVC Investments LLC. The name of that company sounds exactly like something DVC could push back on… a business investing in renting out their DVC portfolio.
It’s actually written into the contract that the renters sign.This sounds nuts to me
This this this. If they will be punishing those of us who go often and treat family/friends with extra rooms (year after year) when we need to rent 5-10% of our stranded points on occasion, especially instead of cracking down on the people renting 100% of their points spread across < 20 reservations year after year, they are going to have another legal problem on their hands from angry Disney owners who actually are engaging in personal use. I think the common wisdom on the thread is probably not what Disney will actually do, because it seems at odds with their fiduciary obligation to stop commercial renting.
I can never tell if you are serious or tongue in cheek, but I think I see it the same way you do. If Disney were to officially bless up to half or more of total reservations being rentals up to 19 (or 20), I would seriously think about picking up 250 points at BWV, turning them into $6000-7000 a year in studio rentals, then take my remaining points and spend them on (much) fewer but larger villa trips.
Thank you for your guinea pig service.
In all seriousness, you are exactly the kind of owner who is using the program as Disney intended to maximize their bottom line…and the rumored policy “with new enforcement” would zero in on people like you for enforcement if you ever did need to rent.
I agree but I would go a step further and say that if you don’t have a background in contract law, ideally FL contract law and FL-specific timeshare law, you should not form any strong opinions of what Disney can and can’t do (let alone what they will do) without talking to someone who is…and no, us anonymous DVC owner lawyers on a message board don’t count.
For us, it’s about 10-12 at DLR (our local park, sometimes with a second room), plus maybe 6-8 stays at WDW (often bookending a cruise on each end), and then the once a year trip to AUL (that often ends up being 2 reservations if we split up rooms)— I’m not even that close to owning 1000 points. Wondering if the member cruise counts as well since it shows up in my dashboard.
[/quote/]
Just a reminder….none of us know the personal backgrounds of posters here and who they may or may not have talked to in the legal realms.
So far, we have seen nothing done, including what the board actually stated at the meetings last year, that suggests the target is not who they said it would be.
Again, as someone who was at the VGF meeting where the info on the article that reported on it came from, the statements were very clear that this was not about the average owner using the product as intended and renting out points within the rules.
I can tell you that nothing from that or the SSR meeting came close to suggesting some major changes would be coming…if anything, they reassured owners that unintended consequences would be a priority before they made any operational changes.
There is a reason that they did not adopt a new policy and that the 2011 one stands, especially given they did update the language to the check box and when you call/chat to make or modify reservations.
OPINION- I’d be surprised if it wasn’t because of legal roadblocks.
This current policy and the FL 718.111 law could prevent them from making sweeping changes, assuming that is a goal of the board, which I do not believe it is or has ever been.
For all we know DVC don’t care or haven’t enforced, either way the end result is the same that guests checkin without a problem.
And you nailed the plan!
Here's my random 3am thoughts...
I would like to see an end to the CONFIRMED rental listings that are more than 60 days out. If an owner wants to rent out their points to cover their dues, cool! They just have to have a confirmed renter before they make the reservation. I have no idea what DVC could do to control this without causing an issue with all members. I've read of the idea of limiting name changes on the reservation, making changes to reservations made at the 11-month window a "cancel/rebook" situation, and charging for changes and all of those ideas seem to do more overall harm than good.
We used to talk about renting "points", which then turned into "well, you're actually renting a reservation"....and now, you are ACTUALLY renting a reservation....and I think that has become the problem. If we regressed back to the system where people went online and said, "Hey, I want to stay at the Animal Kingdom Lodge in August of 2026. Can you find me an owner with points to rent so I can make a reservation?" I think the system would work a lot better. Instead, we have bots and commercial renters who are scooping up weeks at a time and now, renters have to go online and try to find weeks or clumps of days that work for them. At the same time, owners are seeing their dates sitting unavailable and waitlisted on their member dashboard while the rental sites list them available for thousands of dollars. Those dates were not scooped up by "someone". There is nobody staying in those rooms...yet...it is a "ghost" reservation. Owners should not be competing with "ghosts" at the 11-month window. If a renter wants to rent points for an AKV value studio and an owner books that room for them at 11 months out, GREAT! That's fine...as an AKV owner, I do not have an issue competing with other owners who are booking rooms for GUESTS at 11 months. I *DO* have an issue with booking reservations for GHOSTS. If an owner has points that are going to expire, or they have a "last minute" trip that they cannot take, then listing a confirmed reservation that is 60 days out would be acceptable. That follows the holding points guidelines that members have to follow so it seems fair to hold spec rentals to the same rules.
....that's the end of my 3am ramblings...must have coffee and head to real job now
We live a very sheltered life here. I spent a bit of time this morning on Reddit. There was already a confrontation a month ago with someone calling them out. If that was one of you guys BRAVO … the cat is already out of the bag. Not much point in trying to hide it now. Also, there are reports on there that the guests of certain owners are being asked at check in “did you rent points for this stay” by the cast member checking them in.This sounds nuts to me
No argument here, but if the shift to confirmed rentals are only available <60 days would that actually stop spec renting, or would the broker still rent but then just not post the listing for 9 months? You’d have to put rules in place to protect families that made reservations in good faith only to have “life happen” vs. commercial renters that do this day in and day out. E.g. only one (two? five?) name change(s) over a 12 month period perhaps, otherwise you have to cancel and rebook?
