Comments on the 7/20 Podcast Episode

[Waiting2goback]

I am a regular listener to the podcast. I like a lot of what Pete, and the team, say. I like their honesty. I have wanted to start a discussion for some time now but held off because I know some people will blast me because they just defend Disney no matter what, I used to be one of them.

My main issue with one thing that has been said for a while is that Disney is raising prices in order to control crowds. They are using the park reservation to control crowds, etc... There is a lot of talk about many of Disney's decisions lately are intended to control crowds as that is one of the biggest complaints about WDW and DL. They are going to redo the AP program to make getting an AP harder, to control crowds, etc...

So my question is, if the crowds are so bad, and Disney is "desparately" trying to control crowds, why is Disney building more hotels? Why were they planning to build a new hotel in Anahiem, before the city shot it down, if they are trying to reduce the amount of people in the parks? Why are they building more DVC and more hotels at WDW is they are trying to control crowds? Wouldn't adding more on property hotels, without adding another gate, ADD people to the parks?

I realize an argument can be made that people are going anyway and staying off property, so Disney wants those people, that will be in the parks anyway, to stay on property. I thought of that. But given how unappealing Disney is making staying on property lately, will people choose the hotels on property if you build them? I think a larger and larger share of people are moving off property lately, and will likely continue to do so with the loss of DME and EMH, unless you are in a deluxe hotel.

I have been a huge Disney fan for decades. I miss going. I am personally so disappointed with the direction of the company. Chapek is ruining the magic in my opinion. I understand the argument that Disney is a company and are trying to make a profit. I have no problem with that. I am a HUGE Walt fan. I think Walt's vision is what built the company. He wanted a place that was safe, and clean to bring kids for vacation. But, he wanted it to also be an amazing experience that was also AFFORDABLE. But he still made profits. That's what allowed him to buy the land to build WDW. He wasn't suffering financially.

I know things change and Walt has been gone for a while. But Walt wanted to make Disney something special and THAT is what kept people coming back for more, willing to pay the prices that were being charged. Chapek clearly doesn't understand this concept. Walt's belief in "plussing" things is what made it different than any other amusement park. Walt started the whole "theme park" industry because everything was elevated bveyond just rides in a park.

Now we have IP being shoved down our throats everywhere we turn. Merchandise is cookie cutter. Some of my favorite things about Disney have been taken away since Shanghai was being built (so it can't all be blamed on COVID). Less and less is being offered for more and more money. Crowds don't even bother me. When I go I expect it to be busy. I am not an "attraction" person. I go for the feeling I get when I am there. I have gone on trips and never went on a ride so I am not one to complain about missing a ride. I rarely get a fast pass. Often times my only fast pass is for Fantasmic because it's my favorite show. So the idea that we will soon be charged for fast passes (it's coming in some form) doesn't impact me, yet it still bothers me because it will impact some families. My first ever stay on property was at the GF. The orchestra meant something to me. Some people might not care about it but it mattered to me.

My last trip to WDW was April of 2019. It was school vacation and Easter week, so it was PACKED. Busiest I have ever seen. It didn't bother me. What bothered me was paying $400 for cold food at Chef Mickey's. (I have 7 kids) The lack of quality on a lot of things at Disney is what bothers me. If you are going to charge me and arm and a leg please at least make it worth it, don't offer me some food I could get at a Golden Coral and throw some characters around to justify the cost.

To all of those that will say I am complaining because I can't afford to go, that's not the case. I can afford it. I have multiple cars, a new camper, a nice house, and money in the bank. I am not bragging, just pointing out that I am not struggling for money. I could go tomorrow and afford it fine. My problem isn't the cost, my problem is the value that is no longer accompanying the cost. The loss of so many things I love about Disney being taken away. It feels like it has become a glorified Six Flags. I am frustrated because COVID seems to be the built in excuse for a lot of the cuts and changes when this stuff has been happening since Shaghai was being built.

I know this won't happen but I wish we could all boycott for a year to get Chapek fired.

I don't know what will come from this post. I just wanted to vent because I am so frustrated after hearing Pete's description of his DL trip last week. I love Disney and miss going but I can't deal with their games anymore. I can't keep coughing up the money for less value and listen to them blame it all on their desire to control crowds, while building more hotels to bring in more people. It isn't about controlling crowds, its about controlling our spending and soaking us for as much money as they can. It's their right to do that as a business, it's my right to finally say enough is enough. And I know a lot of people are feeling the same way. I read comments on FB and IG when decisions are made. I know I am not the only one that is frustrated. I have a circle of friends that love Disney too and they aren't going anymore either. But, we all still miss it terribly, we just miss the old Disney, that cared about the guest experience.

 

[Marionnette]

I am a regular listener to the podcast. I like a lot of what Pete, and the team, say. I like their honesty. I have wanted to start a discussion for some time now but held off because I know some people will blast me because they just defend Disney no matter what, I used to be one of them.

My main issue with one thing that has been said for a while is that Disney is raising prices in order to control crowds. They are using the park reservation to control crowds, etc... There is a lot of talk about many of Disney's decisions lately are intended to control crowds as that is one of the biggest complaints about WDW and DL. They are going to redo the AP program to make getting an AP harder, to control crowds, etc...

So my question is, if the crowds are so bad, and Disney is "desparately" trying to control crowds, why is Disney building more hotels? Why were they planning to build a new hotel in Anahiem, before the city shot it down, if they are trying to reduce the amount of people in the parks? Why are they building more DVC and more hotels at WDW is they are trying to control crowds? Wouldn't adding more on property hotels, without adding another gate, ADD people to the parks?

I realize an argument can be made that people are going anyway and staying off property, so Disney wants those people, that will be in the parks anyway, to stay on property. I thought of that. But given how unappealing Disney is making staying on property lately, will people choose the hotels on property if you build them? I think a larger and larger share of people are moving off property lately, and will likely continue to do so with the loss of DME and EMH, unless you are in a deluxe hotel.

I have been a huge Disney fan for decades. I miss going. I am personally so disappointed with the direction of the company. Chapek is ruining the magic in my opinion. I understand the argument that Disney is a company and are trying to make a profit. I have no problem with that. I am a HUGE Walt fan. I think Walt's vision is what built the company. He wanted a place that was safe, and clean to bring kids for vacation. But, he wanted it to also be an amazing experience that was also AFFORDABLE. But he still made profits. That's what allowed him to buy the land to build WDW. He wasn't suffering financially.

I know things change and Walt has been gone for a while. But Walt wanted to make Disney something special and THAT is what kept people coming back for more, willing to pay the prices that were being charged. Chapek clearly doesn't understand this concept. Walt's belief in "plussing" things is what made it different than any other amusement park. Walt started the whole "theme park" industry because everything was elevated bveyond just rides in a park.

Now we have IP being shoved down our throats everywhere we turn. Merchandise is cookie cutter. Some of my favorite things about Disney have been taken away since Shanghai was being built (so it can't all be blamed on COVID). Less and less is being offered for more and more money. Crowds don't even bother me. When I go I expect it to be busy. I am not an "attraction" person. I go for the feeling I get when I am there. I have gone on trips and never went on a ride so I am not one to complain about missing a ride. I rarely get a fast pass. Often times my only fast pass is for Fantasmic because it's my favorite show. So the idea that we will soon be charged for fast passes (it's coming in some form) doesn't impact me, yet it still bothers me because it will impact some families. My first ever stay on property was at the GF. The orchestra meant something to me. Some people might not care about it but it mattered to me.

My last trip to WDW was April of 2019. It was school vacation and Easter week, so it was PACKED. Busiest I have ever seen. It didn't bother me. What bothered me was paying $400 for cold food at Chef Mickey's. (I have 7 kids) The lack of quality on a lot of things at Disney is what bothers me. If you are going to charge me and arm and a leg please at least make it worth it, don't offer me some food I could get at a Golden Coral and throw some characters around to justify the cost.

To all of those that will say I am complaining because I can't afford to go, that's not the case. I can afford it. I have multiple cars, a new camper, a nice house, and money in the bank. I am not bragging, just pointing out that I am not struggling for money. I could go tomorrow and afford it fine. My problem isn't the cost, my problem is the value that is no longer accompanying the cost. The loss of so many things I love about Disney being taken away. It feels like it has become a glorified Six Flags. I am frustrated because COVID seems to be the built in excuse for a lot of the cuts and changes when this stuff has been happening since Shaghai was being built.

I know this won't happen but I wish we could all boycott for a year to get Chapek fired.

I don't know what will come from this post. I just wanted to vent because I am so frustrated after hearing Pete's description of his DL trip last week. I love Disney and miss going but I can't deal with their games anymore. I can't keep coughing up the money for less value and listen to them blame it all on their desire to control crowds, while building more hotels to bring in more people. It isn't about controlling crowds, its about controlling our spending and soaking us for as much money as they can. It's their right to do that as a business, it's my right to finally say enough is enough. And I know a lot of people are feeling the same way. I read comments on FB and IG when decisions are made. I know I am not the only one that is frustrated. I have a circle of friends that love Disney too and they aren't going anymore either. But, we all still miss it terribly, we just miss the old Disney, that cared about the guest experience.

Are you my long list twin? You outlined just about all the reasons that I have no enthusiasm for Disney parks right now.

 

[jcb]

one thing that has been said for a while is that Disney is raising prices in order to control crowds

There's a lot I agree with in your post. I have much the same attitude about value for the cost, for now at least. I have other reasons for not going to WDW right now though. That said, every time I see a youtube video that reminds me how much fun it is to get up early and get to the parks, I come close to caving.

As for building more hotels, before COVID-19, occupancy at domestic on-property hotels stayed in the mid to upper 80 percent rage. It even reached 90% in the second quarter of 2018. My understanding is that an 85 to 90 percent occupancy rate is outstanding. I agree with you that that Disney wants off-property guests to stay on property. To do that, Disney will have to offer more hotel rooms than it currently has. While you (and to a degree, I) feel "Disney is making staying on property" unappealing, I suspect Disney is counting on a lot of guests to feel differently. Disney has certainly played that card before, putting an emphasis on new or the occasional guest, instead of the folks who return one or more times every year. For example, I know people who went in June and loved it. I know others who are planning a fall trip and thrilled at the idea. They don't find staying on property unappealing, they don't feel they are missing out on anything, and I'm not going to tell them. (Even I am not that much of a grump.)

I come back to the YouTube videos, which were made in 2018 and 2019. I wasn't watching them for any specific reason - I stumbled across them more because the YouTuber was showing London - but I was amazed at my reaction - akin to nostalgia but much stronger - at remembering getting to the parks for morning EMH or before the crowds arrived. That I still miss, among many other things.

I'm sure I go back to WDW at some point. But right now, I doubt I will go back with the frequency I have done in the past. I'm more inclined to visit DL, where staying off property has (so I think) less of an impact.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Are you my long list twin? You outlined just about all the reasons that I have no enthusiasm for Disney parks right now.

There's a lot I agree with in your post. I have much the same attitude about value for the cost, for now at least. I have other reasons for not going to WDW right now though. That said, every time I see a youtube video that reminds me how much fun it is to get up early and get to the parks, I come close to caving.

As for building more hotels, before COVID-19, occupancy at domestic on-property hotels stayed in the mid to upper 80 percent rage. It even reached 90% in the second quarter of 2018. My understanding is that an 85 to 90 percent occupancy rate is outstanding. I agree with you that that Disney wants off-property guests to stay on property. To do that, Disney will have to offer more hotel rooms than it currently has. While you (and to a degree, I) feel "Disney is making staying on property" unappealing, I suspect Disney is counting on a lot of guests to feel differently. Disney has certainly played that card before, putting an emphasis on new or the occasional guest, instead of the folks who return one or more times every year. For example, I know people who went in June and loved it. I know others who are planning a fall trip and thrilled at the idea. They don't find staying on property unappealing, they don't feel they are missing out on anything, and I'm not going to tell them. (Even I am not that much of a grump.)

I come back to the YouTube videos, which were made in 2018 and 2019. I wasn't watching them for any specific reason - I stumbled across them more because the YouTuber was showing London - but I was amazed at my reaction - akin to nostalgia but much stronger - at remembering getting to the parks for morning EMH or before the crowds arrived. That I still miss, among many other things.

I'm sure I go back to WDW at some point. But right now, I doubt I will go back with the frequency I have done in the past. I'm more inclined to visit DL, where staying off property has (so I think) less of an impact.

I know there will be a lot of people who still go. I know Disney is trying to capitalize on the once in a lifetime guest that doesn't know any better. I get all of that. But there are a lot of people like us, that used to go multiple times a year (my wife and I went to a Disney park 5 times in 2019) that will still go. My fear is that it will take a few more years of rising prices to finally piss people off so much that they stop, for attendance to drop.

I wanted to go to DL this fall too but after hearing about Pete's experiences at the trip and him saying the first two days were not enjoyable, it made me decide to just be done for a while. I am a runner, I was going to run Wine and Dine in November but I decided against that as well.

It sounds stupid but I just feel like a big piece of my life is missing because I went so much for a few years and it would recharge my batteries and now it's gone, for now!

 

[yorkieteacher]

I said this before. Those of us who can "afford" to go are beginning to weigh costs/return. I love Disney, have never had a totally bad time in the multiple times I've been since 1972-but there have been times I chose another type vacation over Disney because of some of the costs/crowds issues. ANd this was pre-covid. When I can go on a European tour for less money than I spend during a week at Disney, I have to REALLY miss the mouse to go to Disney instead. We are thinking about shorter Disney stays and fewer Disney parks, another Disney cruise instead of the parks to get our mouse fix , going to other Orlando attractions like we did Summer 2020, staying in very nice hotels for less money when we visit those "other" parks. Some families who went over once a year or every year may decide there is more out there for less money and a very good return on your vacation dollar. I'm not sure how many die hard Disney fans, like us who frequent this board, are willing to continue to frequently pay after pent up travel demand dies down some.

 

[jcb]

But there are a lot of people like us, that used to go multiple times a year (my wife and I went to a Disney park 5 times in 2019) that will still go.

We went 4 times in 2019 and would have gone 5 times if work had prevented the final trip. I'm still upset about it.

Alas, I think we (and other AP holders) are only a small part of the metic Disney tracks, per capita guess spending (a large part of which is admission tickets). The more I went, the less I spent. That was why I went so often. I'm not saying Disney didn't make money off of me, obviously they did. I just think that Disney, right or wrong, focuses on the experience of the guest who comes once a year at most.

That's probably why they are willing to make major changes to APs. I suspect "reducing park over crowding" is just a euphemism for "freeing up park capacity for people who will pay through the nose for their WDW or DL vacation."

 

[Boopuff]

I just watched the entire episode. I can't help but feel many of the changes to AP come from Disney watching and realizing, the many bloggers/youtubers/AP holders do nothing more than come to the park to "blog"ride a few things, and nothing else. I also think that these same people clog up the reservation system, Reading on here AP holders who've ridden ROTR many, many times while a family on dream vacation can't ride once. And I also think that the changes to AP will definitely lower crowds, perhaps level the playing field for infrequent visitors (the people who buy souviners, eat, stay on property and aren't 'in the know') I'm sure I hold and unpopular opinion, but just reading some stories elsewhere leads me to believe some changes are afoot!

 

[Pooh2]

Have not listened to the podcast yet.
Did Disney make an official announcement about AP's yet?

 

[Waiting2goback]

No, but they were talking about it and the expected changes and price increases. Pete sat with Ken Potrock on his trip to discuss stuff and also polled some of his CA friends that have had AP’s for years and the take away was that AP’s will need to go up in price to limit the number of people who can afford them, to lower capacity.

 

[DLgal]

Pete came to DL with unrealistic expectations, and he admitted that later in the podcast. He said he wanted to come back to Dieneyland 2019. And he was sort of taken aback at how things just weren't quite the same.

I can't disagree with everything you said. You are spot on with most of your observations. However, don't write off Disneyland based on this podcast. Ryno had a great time, it seemed. I follow him on social media and he was posting all week.

I'm a DL local with over 500 visits to the parks (seriously). No, things are not the same as they used to be, and yes, some things are more expensive (food, hotel rooms). BUT, we still have a great time there as a family and my kids are oblivious to all those little things that haven't yet come back. We spent 5 days there this month and had a blast. Our savings account is kinda lonely right now, but the memories that were made are priceless.

I think sometimes we work ourselves up over things we read online and convince ourselves that other people's experiences will mirror ours. That's not always the case. My first time back to the parks in May was less than stellar, but I gave them more chances and eventually things improved. The parks are pretty close to feeling like they used to. Live entertainment is back in DL (marching band, Pearly Band, live musicians at DCA and New Orleans Square, dynamic character interactions, fireworks). It's getting there. We paid for Maxpass last year and the year before and we loved it. Paid fastpass isn't the negative thing most people think it is. My point is, if you really love the parks, give then a chance and make your own opinions about how things are. I am kind of with you on WDW. Too much is still missing over there for me to want to go right now. We are doing Universal next month and not even going to Disney property. I usually visit WDW every year. They still need to step it up over there. But Disneyland is well on its way to normalcy.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Pete came to DL with unrealistic expectations, and he admitted that later in the podcast. He said he wanted to come back to Dieneyland 2019. And he was sort of taken aback at how things just weren't quite the same.

I can't disagree with everything you said. You are spot on with most of your observations. However, don't write off Disneyland based on this podcast. Ryno had a great time, it seemed. I follow him on social media and he was posting all week.

I'm a DL local with over 500 visits to the parks (seriously). No, things are not the same as they used to be, and yes, some things are more expensive (food, hotel rooms). BUT, we still have a great time there as a family and my kids are oblivious to all those little things that haven't yet come back. We spent 5 days there this month and had a blast. Our savings account is kinda lonely right now, but the memories that were made are priceless.

I think sometimes we work ourselves up over things we read online and convince ourselves that other people's experiences will mirror ours. That's not always the case. My first time back to the parks in May was less than stellar, but I gave them more chances and eventually things improved. The parks are pretty close to feeling like they used to. Live entertainment is back in DL (marching band, Pearly Band, live musicians at DCA and New Orleans Square, dynamic character interactions, fireworks). It's getting there. We paid for Maxpass last year and the year before and we loved it. Paid fastpass isn't the negative thing most people think it is. My point is, if you really love the parks, give then a chance and make your own opinions about how things are. I am kind of with you on WDW. Too much is still missing over there for me to want to go right now. We are doing Universal next month and not even going to Disney property. I usually visit WDW every year. They still need to step it up over there. But Disneyland is well on its way to normalcy.

I understand what you are saying. I shouldn't necessarily not come to DL because of what others are saying but I was already on the fence anyway because of the cost. I would go for a weekend trip as that is all I can pull off because my wife starts a new job soon and won't have any vacation time. I have been home with 7 kids since the pandemic started so I am getting a weekend away to recharge. But, from a Friday to Sunday will cost me $1500 and would only give me 1 park day. So, for one park day I think $1500 is a lot of money if it isn't going to be like 2019, in my opinion. I don't think Pete's expectations were unrealistic. When I picture going back to the parks I want it to be as close to normal as possible as that is what I am picturing when I want to go. I understand it may not be 100% back to normal yet, which is fine, but I just don't want to spend $1500 for it not to be what I know. To hear that they aren't even offering housekeeping at their flagship hotel is telling me that they are just opening the gates to bring money back in ASAP (understandable given how much they lost) and putting the guest experience 2nd, which is what Chapek is great at.

The truth is, I would probably go out and have a great time. My park experience is not like most. I don't care about rides. The only 2 I really want to get on each trip is RSR and Incredicoaster but if I didn't get to ride them it wouldn't ruin my vacation. I just go to be in the parks because of the history and the feel of being there. I won't be staying on property as there are better options, for the price, off property. There are only two restaurants on property that I love going to, (Carnation Cafe for Breakfast on Main Street and Wine Country for the green beans that come with the calamari). I am fine eating at Blaze Pizza for most of my meals if needed. BUT, I don't want to pay $1500 for one park day to not be sure it will be "old" DL so I will stay away until things level out.

When i finally go back to the parks DL will be my first choice, which is funny to me because I used to be a lover of WDW and thought I would never find anything better than WDW, then I went to DL. DL also gives the options to have more control over your vacation, and the cost, because you can shop for deals off property. This is in addition to all the other reasons I prefer it to WDW.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

I have been home with 7 kids since the pandemic started so I am getting a weekend away to recharge. But, from a Friday to Sunday will cost me $1500 and would only give me 1 park day. So, for one park day I think $1500 is a lot of money if it isn't going to be like 2019, in my opinion.

Why so much? We just booked a week trip to DL and the prices didn't seem to be that crazy.

I don't think Pete's expectations were unrealistic. When I picture going back to the parks I want it to be as close to normal as possible as that is what I am picturing when I want to go. I understand it may not be 100% back to normal yet, which is fine, but I just don't want to spend $1500 for it not to be what I know. To hear that they aren't even offering housekeeping at their flagship hotel is telling me that they are just opening the gates to bring money back in ASAP (understandable given how much they lost) and putting the guest experience 2nd, which is what Chapek is great at.

The housekeeping thing is industry wide, not just Disney. I was surprised to hear that as a complaint on the podcast because every Marriott I've stayed at since March 2020 has made it clear that we would not be getting daily housekeeping.

 

[DLgal]

I understand what you are saying. I shouldn't necessarily not come to DL because of what others are saying but I was already on the fence anyway because of the cost. I would go for a weekend trip as that is all I can pull off because my wife starts a new job soon and won't have any vacation time. I have been home with 7 kids since the pandemic started so I am getting a weekend away to recharge. But, from a Friday to Sunday will cost me $1500 and would only give me 1 park day. So, for one park day I think $1500 is a lot of money if it isn't going to be like 2019, in my opinion. I don't think Pete's expectations were unrealistic. When I picture going back to the parks I want it to be as close to normal as possible as that is what I am picturing when I want to go. I understand it may not be 100% back to normal yet, which is fine, but I just don't want to spend $1500 for it not to be what I know. To hear that they aren't even offering housekeeping at their flagship hotel is telling me that they are just opening the gates to bring money back in ASAP (understandable given how much they lost) and putting the guest experience 2nd, which is what Chapek is great at.

The truth is, I would probably go out and have a great time. My park experience is not like most. I don't care about rides. The only 2 I really want to get on each trip is RSR and Incredicoaster but if I didn't get to ride them it wouldn't ruin my vacation. I just go to be in the parks because of the history and the feel of being there. I won't be staying on property as there are better options, for the price, off property. There are only two restaurants on property that I love going to, (Carnation Cafe for Breakfast on Main Street and Wine Country for the green beans that come with the calamari). I am fine eating at Blaze Pizza for most of my meals if needed. BUT, I don't want to pay $1500 for one park day to not be sure it will be "old" DL so I will stay away until things level out.

When i finally go back to the parks DL will be my first choice, which is funny to me because I used to be a lover of WDW and thought I would never find anything better than WDW, then I went to DL. DL also gives the options to have more control over your vacation, and the cost, because you can shop for deals off property. This is in addition to all the other reasons I prefer it to WDW.

How the heck will this trip cost you $1500 solo, staying offsite, for one park day?

 

[Waiting2goback]

Why so much? We just booked a week trip to DL and the prices didn't seem to be that crazy.


The housekeeping thing is industry wide, not just Disney. I was surprised to hear that as a complaint on the podcast because every Marriott I've stayed at since March 2020 has made it clear that we would not be getting daily housekeeping.

How the heck will this trip cost you $1500 solo, staying offsite, for one park day?

I should have been more clear. That $1500 is flight, hotel, transportation to and from the airport, and park ticket. So, it isn't ALL on Disney but that would be my total cost for the trip (minus food and merch) so that's the number I use when making a decision because that is what it will cost me to go to the park for a day.

But, it brings up a good point. Come January the cost to go to WDW because of things that used to be included, like DME. I know not everyone uses DME but a lot of people did and now it is suddenly an extra expense. Will it break the bank for people, probably not, and it isn't a direct cost for the Disney trip, but it is just another thing to make the total cost more than it used to be.

 

[GAN]

Regarding DVC expansion, imagine a business that has guaranteed sales flow/full capacity for 45 years. You can't guarantee that at All-Stars or any other resort. In a perfect "World", Disney would have every room a DVC room. In that scenario, so what if the parks are jammed -that just forces people to decide whether to fight the crowds or sit by the pool and drink, play golf, shop, eat at restaurants, etc.

 

[butterscotchcollins]

Oh my gosh thank you for this thread! I think you hit the nail on the head that it’s not about the cost, it’s about the value. And to me I don’t find that the crowds diminish my value, what diminishes the value is food that looks/tastes like it came out of a cafeteria (cuz it did) and outdated $700-a-night hotel rooms.

I’m eagerly anticipating the return of APs (never had one) and am prepared to pay top tier provided I think it’s “worth” it. To me “worth it” means the extra hours, the fast passes, priority access, the discounts…basically all the things I’m sure they’re planning to offer for, I can only guess, $2000+.

Re: capacity, I miss the parks being open til 2am. I think longer park hours would do a LOT to spread out crowds - I understand at MK right now they use those late hours to make guests pay a premium in the form of “parties” but would be great if they could find other ways to drive monetization (like late-night-only cocktail carts and After 10pm snacks) that still allowed for regular guest access.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Regarding DVC expansion, imagine a business that has guaranteed sales flow/full capacity for 45 years. You can't guarantee that at All-Stars or any other resort. In a perfect "World", Disney would have every room a DVC room. In that scenario, so what if the parks are jammed -that just forces people to decide whether to fight the crowds or sit by the pool and drink, play golf, shop, eat at restaurants, etc.

I totally get why Disney makes some of the decisions they make as a business. I understand their need/want to build DVC, it’s genius. They get DVC owners to pay for the construction of the hotel when they purchase the points. Then they get people to pay for the ongoing maintenance with their monthly maintenance fees. And, as you said, they have guaranteed guests coming back every year to fill the rooms and spend more money.

As a business I also get why they raise ticket prices, and have the hard ticketed events, etc... because people will pay it so why not. But, I also think you’re post proves my point that none of this is about lowering crowds for a better guest experience. Disney only cares about packing people in that are willing to pay their ever increasing prices. They don’t care if the guest has a good experience anymore. Those days are gone in my opinion.

Here is my problem with some of their decisions. Disney is a generational company, meaning the love for Disney has been passed down for multiple generations in some families. That’s how Disney got to the point it is now. If they start pissing off the loyal guests they will eventually stop coming.

Take my family for example. I’m the first generation of my family to love Disney. My parents and siblings think it’s a waste. I would love to take my kids yearly and pass on the love but at this point it’s not worth it so it likely won’t be passed on. They have been of course but most of my kids have said they would rather camp than go to Disney. If people stop going because of the cost eventually Disney will run out of loyal fans and have to survive off the “one-timers” they look to soak for every penny. I have 7 kids. If my 7 kids fell in love with it and then took their kids down the road that another 14+ (assuming two grand kids for each child + spouses) that will keep going. That’s how you build a fan base.

To me it feels like Eisner understood this and made service and staying on Disney property, in the Disney “bubble” a priority. Chapek is undoing the bubble. Taking away DME and pushing more and more people to the competition (Universal). Those are the decisions that don’t make sense to me.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Sorry for the long responses. I have another example to support my previous response. Once upon a time the big 3 automakers were powerhouse companies. Those were also "generational" company in my opinion. My dad was a Chevy guy. He always bought Chevys while I was growing up. In the 80's he told me never to buy a Japanese car when I got my license. Then, in the 80's GM, Ford, and Chrysler started building terrible products and people started buying Japanese. At one point I predicted the big three were going to go out of business and people thought I was crazy. Then they needed a gov't assistance to stay in business. Fast forward a few years and now Toyota is the biggest auto manufacturer, why, because they make good, reliable cars. They make it appealing to buy their cars. My dad passed away last September and his last two cars were a Kia and Nissan. Kia is Korean but its still not a Chevy.

 

[GAN]

I totally get why Disney makes some of the decisions they make as a business. I understand their need/want to build DVC, it’s genius. They get DVC owners to pay for the construction of the hotel when they purchase the points. Then they get people to pay for the ongoing maintenance with their monthly maintenance fees. And, as you said, they have guaranteed guests coming back every year to fill the rooms and spend more money.

As a business I also get why they raise ticket prices, and have the hard ticketed events, etc... because people will pay it so why not. But, I also think you’re post proves my point that none of this is about lowering crowds for a better guest experience. Disney only cares about packing people in that are willing to pay their ever increasing prices. They don’t care if the guest has a good experience anymore. Those days are gone in my opinion.

Here is my problem with some of their decisions. Disney is a generational company, meaning the love for Disney has been passed down for multiple generations in some families. That’s how Disney got to the point it is now. If they start pissing off the loyal guests they will eventually stop coming.

Take my family for example. I’m the first generation of my family to love Disney. My parents and siblings think it’s a waste. I would love to take my kids yearly and pass on the love but at this point it’s not worth it so it likely won’t be passed on. They have been of course but most of my kids have said they would rather camp than go to Disney. If people stop going because of the cost eventually Disney will run out of loyal fans and have to survive off the “one-timers” they look to soak for every penny. I have 7 kids. If my 7 kids fell in love with it and then took their kids down the road that another 14+ (assuming two grand kids for each child + spouses) that will keep going. That’s how you build a fan base.

To me it feels like Eisner understood this and made service and staying on Disney property, in the Disney “bubble” a priority. Chapek is undoing the bubble. Taking away DME and pushing more and more people to the competition (Universal). Those are the decisions that don’t make sense to me.

I actually agree with you to a degree -I wasn't trying to prove anything, just stating fact. I don't think they're necessarily trying to lower crowds with increases either -their hope is that they can better control them. So, if an area is over-crowded, figure out how to entice them to other areas ...this way they keep the numbers high and it creates a better guest experience. The other side of that is that -sure, they will charge what the market bears. Most people who sell their car don't settle for a bad price -they want to get as much as possible, and if your car is in high demand you want to find the buyer who really wants it and "overpays." I've stated this dozens of times on this Board ....Disney doesn't worry about loyal guests, they have new "loyal" guests being born every day. I'm not saying they will treat you like dirt -in fact, I think at times I've received some preferential treatment along the way ...but they aren't perfect. If I want to leave because it's too expensive or I'm not happy with a decision -they aren't going to come crawling to me begging me to visit again ....they're moving forward because they know the parks will still be full.

 

[jujubiee4]

I use to listen to a lot of their podcasts. However lately they seem to be nothing but
cheerleaders and justify any questionable moves Disney makes. Do they get any kickbacks?
They seem to have deeper pockets than the average family. We all know Disney is expensive
but is the value still there? I saw some youtube comments that they are sounding like elitists.
I don't know about that but i did this morning watch their newest one about DCL changes.
Elaine said something about basketball court will be shut down to a sundeck and Pete was like
Oh thank god because the noise drove me crazy while I was getting my massage.

Uh yeah ok.

I was at DL same days they were and it was ok. They were not too far off the mark with review. Our family
still had fun. Really i just heard some people complain about prices crowds etc. In other words
nothing unusual.