Colleges don't have IEPs & 504s

[golfgal]

DH is in HVAC you're right he makes about 1/3 that. But still $30/hr + OT and On-call works out to over $65,000/yr. Not too shabby.

I do know my DS. He himself has mentioned that he thinks he wants to go to vocational school (we just finished investigating it for oldest DS).

What prompted the comment was the fact that we (the teachers and I) were discussing his inability to pass the MCAS. Under current Massachusetts law if he doesn't pass the MCAS he can't get a diploma - just a certificate of completion - no matter whether he's done all the work as required under the IEP and 504. No diploma means no college. DH and I have actually discussed the reality that we may have to send him to either private school (if we can find one that will accept him) or to a public school in a different state to live with a relative for his senior year of HS so that he can have a diploma.

I just feel flabbergasted that they are so ingrained in the get the kids to college mode that saying I don't think he's going to go to college - especially in light of the discussion we were having - raised such protests. Like having a goal of becoming a tradesperson or other non-college profession (we have a friend who works for the DPW and he is extremely happy) is a bad thing.

Another example of NCLB gone bad. What a stupid requirement. Yes, kids should be able to pass the grad standard test in your state but some kids just CAN'T. I know in our state a school can file for an exemption for few kids. They have to take the tests 3 times and have some documentation to back up their claim (IEP's, etc.) but they can still get a diploma. I also think that most colleges won't differentiate at all that much between a certificate and a diploma. It isn't really any different then a GED and a diploma and colleges DO accept a GED.

 

[castleview]

Good for you for knowing your child. DD11 has a very low functioning, low IQ, blind, and wheel chair bound student in her class. The parents are pulling her out of mainstream and putting her in specialized school and the Special Ed Coordinator is flipping out. The parents feel they are simply being realistic.

 

[3boymthr]

You do know your child but I wouldn't give up on the reading just yet. 5th grade was a very hard year for us in general, once middle school hit, things improved a lot with switching classes, more opportunities, etc...

I know I had heard forever the "flip a switch" thing for DS and it's not quite there BUT something did switch this year in 8th grade for him. I've never seen him immediately go do his homework, choose to study on his own, etc... ever but he did this year & it's not a single thing I have done.

Where in 5th grade he was *barely* at 2nd grade reading level (and he has ADHD as well)....this year he was put into regular English class with modifications but it's because he is only 2 grade levels below in reading vs. 3 grades. They couldn't even score one of his standardized tests in reading one year -- I'm pretty sure it was a 0.

He will never become a writer or some field with major English component I don't think but he has come a long way since 5th grade when I wasn't sure he would EVER get the concept of reading down.

I know my goal has also always been just to get him reading enough to survive the real world -- as long as he can read signs, menus, directions, job applications, etc... I would be happy.

He wants to be a Computer Game Designer which should be interesting concept because I'm sure 99% of boys his age also want to do that. Our HS offers classes in that though.

Now in our case, my son is very good in Math -- unless it's a story problem but give him numbers to figure out and he can do that. So, hopefully he will play up his strengths in real life.

I have no idea if he will really end up going to college or not but I wouldn't want to rule it out just yet. I highly doubt he will get the 2 year foreign language in that colleges want but who knows, maybe a different language from English would be easier. English has some weird rules for things and he would read something with the rules he was taught only to be told "yes you followed the rules, however, THIS word is an exception to the rule".

Unfortunately, it's not just the reading where DS falls behind - he has a processing issue with verbal and written information. It boils down to that he can understand something if it's drawn out in pictures but he can't process and interpret words and numbers both written and spoken beyond a basic level of say a kindegartener or first grader. So he's behind in reading, writing, comprehension, etc. (He's ahead of grade level in geometry though ). This affects all areas of his schooling; ELA, math and science - the three areas where he has to pass the MCAS.

 

[Hannathy]

Another example of NCLB gone bad. What a stupid requirement. Yes, kids should be able to pass the grad standard test in your state but some kids just CAN'T. I know in our state a school can file for an exemption for few kids. They have to take the tests 3 times and have some documentation to back up their claim (IEP's, etc.) but they can still get a diploma. I also think that most colleges won't differentiate at all that much between a certificate and a diploma. It isn't really any different then a GED and a diploma and colleges DO accept a GED.

see I disagree a diploma should be just that a sign that you have done and passed all that is required for High school. He is getting what he earned a certificate that he was in High school. Our school district does the same thing for special ed students.

And no a certificate of completion is totally different and not interchangeable with a diploma. And yes there is a world of difference between a certificate of completion and a GED or a Diploma. A GED certifies you know the material you would have learned if you went to a traditional school, a certificate does not do this.

 

[Hannathy]

Unfortunately, it's not just the reading where DS falls behind - he has a processing issue with verbal and written information. It boils down to that he can understand something if it's drawn out in pictures but he can't process and interpret words and numbers both written and spoken beyond a basic level of say a kindegartener or first grader. So he's behind in reading, writing, comprehension, etc. (He's ahead of grade level in geometry though ). This affects all areas of his schooling; ELA, math and science - the three areas where he has to pass the MCAS.

If he is on that low of a level I don't think you would simply be able to have him go live somewhere else for a year and get a diploma. They are going to have requirements also. I know our district also gives certificates if they can not do the level of work needed to get a diploma. My neighbors DD got just that a certificate of completion not a diploma. so other states also do the same

 

[golfgal]

see I disagree a diploma should be just that a sign that you have done and passed all that is required for High school. He is getting what he earned a certificate that he was in High school. Our school district does the same thing for special ed students.

And no a certificate of completion is totally different and not interchangeable with a diploma. And yes there is a world of difference between a certificate of completion and a GED or a Diploma. A GED certifies you know the material you would have learned if you went to a traditional school, a certificate does not do this.

If a child has passed all the graduation requirements at their school and didn't pass the state test as was given a certificate of completion, that is the same as a GED.

 

[missypie]

Gentle readers, let me tell you something I realized after my Aspergers/ADD/Executive Function Disordered son crashed and burned in college: There was not a single person who advised us or Son in grade school, middle school or high school who has one second of experience in dealing with Aspergers/ADD/Executive Function Disordered students IN COLLEGE.

Once my son was living the experience and after I talked to other parents whose kids had lived the experience, I realized that their initial failure rate when away at a four year university is virtually 100%. Our high school does not track the college success of its graduates. The high schools have no idea whether their graduates with learning differences are succeeding in college or not. After the fact, I realized that virtually all the advice I had been given by school personnel was dead wrong.

So, OP, you are to be commended for going with your gut.

 

[golfgal]

http://www.smsu.edu/

I am sure there are other schools like this around the nation but I am familiar with this school. It was the first university built to be completely handicapped accessible and was really founded to deal with special needs individuals. They have programing for all students but have extensive programs for kids with learning disabilities and for other disabilities as well. The admission standards are fairly low because of this as well. They have most traditional majors but also have some more 'trade" oriented programs as well. There are options out there.

 

[Hannathy]

If a child has passed all the graduation requirements at their school and didn't pass the state test as was given a certificate of completion, that is the same as a GED.

but a certificate of completion doesn't say you did pass all the requirements it only says you were there. It is not the same as a Diploma it doesn't mean the same thing.

 

[MushyMushy]

Another example of NCLB gone bad. What a stupid requirement. Yes, kids should be able to pass the grad standard test in your state but some kids just CAN'T. I know in our state a school can file for an exemption for few kids. They have to take the tests 3 times and have some documentation to back up their claim (IEP's, etc.) but they can still get a diploma. I also think that most colleges won't differentiate at all that much between a certificate and a diploma. It isn't really any different then a GED and a diploma and colleges DO accept a GED.

When I was getting my MA, I had several professors and advisors argue that some college bound LD kids might be better off dropping out of school, earning their GED, taking a few classes at a community college and getting into a 4-year school that way. It really would make sense for some kids, especially the ones who don't do well in testing or who don't meet all the requirements to get into a college after graduation (like upper level math classes or so many years of a foreign language). My university at the time had some pretty stringent admission requirements for high school graduates, BUT weren't so strict about those with GEDs.

I don't think anybody should consider that as an easy way out, but it's definitely an alternative and something to think long and hard about if a kid is determined to go to college.

 

[3boymthr]

If he is on that low of a level I don't think you would simply be able to have him go live somewhere else for a year and get a diploma. They are going to have requirements also. I know our district also gives certificates if they can not do the level of work needed to get a diploma. My neighbors DD got just that a certificate of completion not a diploma. so other states also do the same

I'm sorry. I didn't explain well, but it's so hard describe his problem. He's not on a first grade level across the board.

For example, his class is currently learning about energy and how it works and they just learned about how a microwave works to cook food using energy. When shown a technical diagram of a microwave and the different mechanisms within (labeled, even) he understood exactly what was going on and how the microwave works and he could redraw the microwave and illustrate how it works and label the parts, but given the same information in a paragraph to read and having me describe (5 times at least) how the microwave works then asking him to write down what he learned and he just stared and said I don't know.

So he can understand simple text and descriptions and complicated illustrations and can generate complicated drawings illustrating what he has learned but can only regurgitate back 1 word/1 sentence answers and the standardized testing they give in MA requires he read complicated instructions and regurgitate back 1 page essays describing how he arrived at his answers for all three areas (language, Math and science). He can't pass this part so he can't pass the test so he can't graduate.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I think if your son is only in 5th grade, there is no need at this point in his life to decide for him whether or not he will be college material.

 

[PatsMom]

OP, the school should not make you feel bad for setting what you think are realistic goals for your child. I agree with those who say that not everyone is college material. And I know lots of young people who have not attended college who are living happy, productive lives!

The world needs great mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc. Our local high school has a great vocational program. We live in a tourist area and the kids graduate the culinary program ready to work in a restaurant - not a great career for everyone but many enjoy it and it needs to be done. They also have some other great programs.

The only item I would disagree with is setting the military up as a goal. I know that you have to take the vocational aptitude test still because my daughter looked into enlisting. And when I did basic training, there was quite a bit of book work involved. And i have to agree with the poster who mentioned that depression and military life don't mix.

 

[Cindy B]

Many universities do have programs and special departments for students with IEP's and 504's. I know-- an adult in the family utilized the services. Acommodations can be made such as test taking, quiet rooms, and various coursework strategy-- for example, instead of one HUGE term paper due at the end-- working to get parts done at a certain time while completing the paper at the same time as other students (chunking out the assignment)

You can also look at vocational programs, certficate programs, and some job life skills courses.

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

I didn't read all the posts, so I may be repeating information.

My ds has dyslexia, ADHD, and anxiety. He hated school. I never thought he would ever go to college. I wasn't sure he would make it out of high school. His plans were to quit at 16. My hopes were to try to push him into the military so he'd have something to fall back on. Well, he is currently in the middle of his first semester at college.

Colleges don't have IEPs and 504s per say, but that doesn't mean they don't want to help someone with learning disabilities. First of all there are some colleges that don't require SAT or ACT scores. I believe all colleges do standardized testing to see where the person is academically. There are some colleges that are geared specifically to learning disabled people. Most colleges have services at their school.

Your child doesn't have to go to college to be somebody, but you shouldn't rule it out. Try talking to your son's IEP team and guidance counselors. Also maybe you'd like to check some schools out to see what they offer. Good luck.

 

[cepmom]

have not read any other replies yet so sorry if this is redundant...but you know your child best. Some kids aren't cut out for college and there's nothing wrong with that. That being said, some colleges do have spec ed programs...my DD's college offers PAL program that offers assistance to learning disabled students.

 

[Aneille]

This is what I think.

They shouldn't have been upset at you for stating what you think is best for your child.

I think its wonderful that you see potential for your son doing some sort of vocational work. There are a lot of choices and great technical high school's and tech. colleges for him to explore. I also believe that since he is only in 5th grade things may change.

With any child, I believe to help them succeed adults need to provide them options to explore. I feel it is never to anyones best interest to over specialize at a very young age. If a child loves math, then let them do as much math as they want, but as their parent its my job to make sure they explore writing and reading as well and introduce new things. Because their interests and talents are always evolving.

Your child is in 5th grade. He is still evolving too. I would pick a path that leaves college as potential path but the main path towards a vocational school. I know the high school I graduated at had a vo-tech which also allowed kids to take courses needed for college. I know many that took advantage of that. Some went on to college, some stayed with their chosen technical skill. Maybe something like that would be an option to explore as he enters into high school. Or maybe it will not be an option. But your not at that point yet.

Try not to take too many paths away from him. Some are going to close for him on their own just like they do for any child as they mature and evolve. Let them close naturally, while being realistic in which paths are options for him. In the end, I am sure he will be successful in whatever path he eventually follows because he has the support of this family.

 

[Boston Tea Party]

My most successful relative moves dirt for a living. My dad with a doctorate will never see the kind of money he makes.

You are wise to know that some people don't have the college aptitude. NOTHING wrong with that. We need all kind of people to make the world go 'round.

I wish you all well.

 

[eliza61]

I told my middle DS' regular and SpEd teachers and the school psychologist that I have come to the realization that the child will never go to college and that my goal is just to get him graduated from HS with a career path mapped out. Either having attended vocational or agricultural high school or with entry into a vocational school (such as NE Tech or Wentworth) or the army planned.

You could have heard a pin drop in that room. The teachers then very subtly read me the riot act for not having college as a goal for him.

But let's face it there are no IEPs or 504 plans in college and while he is a delightful child whom I love dearly he has severe learning disabilities (he is in 5th grade and reads and writes on a 1st grade level) on top of moderate ADD. In Massachusetts he has to take and pass a standardized test (MCAS) just to graduate and we have been told by his specialists that he will never pass the test.

Further, the school psychologist had just told me that we had to be careful not to put him in situations where he might fail as because of his personality he is a child who is primed to become severely depressed possibly suicidal if he does not achieve his goals.

On top of that he HATES school.

And truthfully, IMO you can be just as successful and sometimes more successful as a tradesperson (my DH) or farmer (my dad) or in the military (my FIL and SFIL and BIL) as you can a person with a college degree or a person who goes to college then drops out.

So why is it so wrong to not want to set my child up to fail and having a goal that 75 years ago would have been lauded as an excellent goal??? Why did the teachers read me the riot act for not having college as a goal for him??? I just want to set up realistic goals that he can achieve.

Ok, couple of issues here. I absolutely agree with you. I don't like it when people try to make you feel bad about decisions you make for your kids.
but I also would not limit your sons goals simply because you think he won't succeed. How do you know?

there are tons of colleges that have programs designed for special education kids. My son is a high fuctioning with Aspergers. He's in college. He started out at Marshall University that has a wonderful program but now he is back in state (NJ) attending another university.
He's in a program taylor made for him and his abilities. We don't compare him to other college students. Some times he struggles but he has many success.

Now you're right, if he hates school that's an entire problem in itself.

I would not rule out any possibilities, keep all your doors open. Does he show any indication of some area where he'd like to explore?

 

[Longsx3]

I think it is best to keep all options open, if you close the door to College now then no matter what he will never have the opportunity. Wait to see what the future has in store for him.


OTOH if he can't pass a standardized test then the Army is not an option either.