College or not?

[hanutedmansionmomma]

Piggybacking on the financial success thread here...

My DD is a HS Senior. We have daily conversations about college. I'm pushing her to get a 4 year degree right out of HS. On the flip side, I know many people have (and are still paying for!) degrees they aren't using.

Any thoughts on getting a 2 or 4 year degree vs. not at all? Do you think folks with 4 year degrees are further ahead later in life than those without?

If you didn't go to college right after HS how did that work out? Do you wish you had?

Thanks!!

 

[Michelle and crew]

My husband didn't finish his degree when he had it easy and paid for. It was a huge pain in the butt to get it as an adult with a baby. He couldn't have been hired for his current position without it.

 

[Virgderon]

My stepson was not ready for college when my DH pushed him into it, and he has not done well. He is currently suspended for having a low GPA. If she is not sure, I would do community college for a couple years until she is ready. It's a much cheaper way to explore their likes and dislikes, and if they are ready for the tougher curriculum.

 

[Michelle and crew]

I do agree. There isn't any reason one has to jump straight into an expensive 4 year college. Take a few basics, and dabble in the things that interest her, then decide.

If she doesn't want to go the college way, many of the trade unions take apprentices, train them, and they come out the other side with skills that can support them and their future families.

 

[CajunMomof3]

I agree with the PP. I worked in the Dean's office as a Graduate Assistant and saw many families come in whose child was failing because he/she was not ready for college.

In most fields, a degree is a must for optimal earning and promotion opportunities. I think a good place to start would be the guidance counselor's office to determine what career fields your DD is best suited for (there are some really good assessment/aptitude tools available). Then you guys can research those fields and determine what further schooling is appropriate.

 

[ajk912]

I agree, I would start at a community college. I know the ones here in VA run just over $100 a credit hour, so a full semester runs about $1400 or so after parking and technology fees and everything. Not too unbearable.

Also, as for going back late in life.. I know if she waits till after she is 25 she may be eligible for more grants and loans because she'd be considered independent, but what would she do in the meantime?

For going back later in life, I am 32, have three kids, and am going back, but it's rough. I am not sure if it's because I am old(er) but some of the classes..Chemistry for one..are brutal and I see the little 19 year olds whizzing through it because they just took it last year in high school, and I can't help but be a little envious of how much easier it is for (some of) them.

 

[MrsPete]

Piggybacking on the financial success thread here...

My DD is a HS Senior. We have daily conversations about college. I'm pushing her to get a 4 year degree right out of HS. On the flip side, I know many people have (and are still paying for!) degrees they aren't using.

Any thoughts on getting a 2 or 4 year degree vs. not at all? Do you think folks with 4 year degrees are further ahead later in life than those without?

If you didn't go to college right after HS how did that work out? Do you wish you had?

Thanks!!

If your student is ambivalent about college, then it's a sign she isn't ready or isn't sure she wants to go.

A couple questions: Does she like high school? Not the social aspect, but the education part? Does she read on her own? Does she have good attendance in high school? How are her high school grades? Look at these things honestly, and you'll know whether she's ready.

Also, you mentioned money. If you'd need to borrow to send her to college, that's a big concern. The worst-case scenerio is that she starts college but doesn't finish . . . and has money to pay back. Avoid that trap!

Is a degree worthwhile? Absolutely! The average person with a degree will be more employable, will earn more money and greater benefits, and will be less likely to be laid off. Sure, you can find examples of people who don't fit this mold, and you can find people who aren't using their degrees.

It's important to choose something that's actually going to get you a job; the colleges aren't good at helping you find that something. They tend to present philosophy and accounting as equal alternatives, yet we all know which one's going to get a good career job and which one's going to continue working at the mall.

I went to college right out of high school. It was the right choice for me. I was a good student in high school (and did better in college). I was ready.

My husband was rather like your daughter. He wasn't sure he wanted to go to college. He really wanted military, but a minor disability put a stop to that plan. He worked at a manual labor job for a couple years, and then he decided that he didn't want to do that for the rest of his life. He started wtih community college and then went to the university. It took him five yeas total to get his degree (which is typical for a transfer student and pretty much negated the community college savings). He says it was the right path for him: He wasn't ready for a university at 18 when he graduated.

If she decides not to go now, I'd give a couple suggestions:

Set a time frame for her to work/consider. Perhaps you'll agree that you'll discuss college again when she turns 20, 21, 25 . . . and at that point honestly assess how far she's come in her job, how far she's likely to go without a degree. Also, encourage her not to make decisions that'd prevent her from returning to college: Don't buy an expensive car, don't have a baby while the "Am I gonna return to college?" option is still out there. You don't want her to say, "I wish I could go back to school, but with two kids and a house payment, I just can't do tuition, day care, and everything else." Don't let her trap herself into so many responsibilities that it'll become too difficult.

 

[mistysue]

I have to be completely honest- I graduated in 1999. Most of the people I went to school with who finished college- are either still unemployed or have never worked in their field and are stuck in crappy service jobs. Many are now "stay at home parents" because they could never get a job so they got married, had kids and just skipped the whole career thing.

It did not help them one bit- it actually just set them 4-5 years behind their peers who didn't go... It's sad because mid to late 20's is really one of the times where getting nowhere sets you back the worst long term. Those who stayed to get their masters are mostly unemployed completely are doing some trivial job trying to network and getting nowhere. OTOH, most of the high school graduates I know with no college or an associates degree have awesome jobs.

So I think it's a gamble. How do you think the economy will change? People my year (and right around me) got short changed because the job market tanked as we were the right age to finish college. One of the few I know who is using his degree at all is DH, who went all the way through to getting his PhD. I know quite a few teachers who are working temp positions.

Getting just any degree doesn't seem to help anymore. You need to do something specialized that is needed. If your degree is not specific to a need, I don't think it is worth it at this point. Then again, it might give him 4 years to delay entering the job market, and it might be much better by then.

 

[Marionnette]

Piggybacking on the financial success thread here...

My DD is a HS Senior. We have daily conversations about college. I'm pushing her to get a 4 year degree right out of HS. On the flip side, I know many people have (and are still paying for!) degrees they aren't using.

Any thoughts on getting a 2 or 4 year degree vs. not at all? Do you think folks with 4 year degrees are further ahead later in life than those without?

If you didn't go to college right after HS how did that work out? Do you wish you had?

Thanks!!

It was never a question whether I would go to college when I was growing up. It was a given. I knew I wanted to go. Needed to go. Should go. But I have siblings who werent as academic as me. One went to the technical school while still in high school and got a certificate in drafting. He is still at doing drafting today. Hes very successful to the point where architects will delay their projects in order to have him do the plans instead of one of the other draftsmen in his company. Another brother went to the state university for an associates degree. He has held positions in various areas which are all related to his field. He has moved his way up the ladder from field technician to regional specialist. Both of those brothers got a foot in the door b/c of there academic credentials. But there hard work is what aloud them to advance. I think that your daughter should be looking at some education beyond high school. If not college then in a technical school where she will acquire a marketable skill. Not everyone is suited to sit in a classroom for four years.

 

[lucigo]

When I went to college way back when, I went straight from high school to a large university, and while I am not using my degree directly I do believe it shaped me into a more responsible person and gave me the building blocks to be a confident adult. My degree is in recreation and park administration and I am a medical transcriptionist. That little "thing in the back of my head" was telling me - you know you want to be a mom and be home to raise your babies" while society was telling me its the 80's, women WORK now and you need to have a career.

Now that I have kids in college I am attempting to help them with the little voices in their head so they end up where they want to be in life. My oldest DD22 spent 2 years at a jr. college and just this year transferred to a big university. She also wants to be able to work from home, and is getting a graphics design/advertising degree, but also learning transcription on the side as a backup.

My 19DS thought he was too smart for jr. college so after a year at a university he is now taking a step back and in his own dime paying for 2 classes at the jr college to bring his grades up and get his scholarships back! He hasn't found his passion yet and my hope is that he will stay at the jr college at least until he does find it.

And then there is my husband. 20 years in the navy followed by 2 years at a jr college and 3 years at a university, he is just beginning his 2nd career in life as a middle school math teacher. College was a struggle for him but he did love it. It has been a very long road though and not sure I would have wanted him to make that decision again. It feels like he was in school forever, but he knew what he wanted and he loves his new career.

Does your DD have a job? Working at a minimum wage job is huge in helping young adults with their decision on many levels.

Long story short, my advice is jr. college and a job to give your young adult time to find direction.

 

[Beckypooh1972]

I can speak from the vantage point of being one who went to college right after high school and graduated in 4 years with a B.A. I was "college bound" throughout school and went to college on a scholarship. I did work in retail part time while in school but my money went towards car pmt, gas, junk food, etc.

In my experience, the degree didn't help much in the first few years because it was an English degree as opposed to a business or computer science degree. In fact, it kind of felt like I "lost" 4 years of valuable work experience in the career route I eventually settled in, which was business. However, these days, as I look at executive positions within my company, I am so glad I have that degree because 99% of the job descriptions I aspire to require a "4 year degree".

 

[ancestry]

I didn't finish my degrees (I now have three of them - 2 BAs and 1 MA) until my late 30s). Had I gone right out of high school it would have been a total waste. In fact I did go for a semester or two and failed almost everything because I had no interest in being there at the time. I wasn't ready and I didn't want it. If the person doesn't highly desire going to college there is no sense in pushing them as they just won't get much out of it. You have to "want" it, in my opinion. When I returned in my 30s I ended up graduating Summa Cum Laude with all three degrees.

 

[KAYLI'S DAD]

When I graduated high school the last thing I wanted to do was go to college. If someone would have offered to pay for everything for me or give me money to go I would have still not gone. I hated school and wanted out. Now I regret it. It does make it alot easier to have the degree because alot of companies and people worship the (bull S) degree even though I know people as well who have degrees even from universities and are either unemployed or dont know anything about their degree. I hired a kid years ago right out of college with a computer science degree and asked him to reload windows on a laptop and he told me he did not know how. I went to our local community college about 2 yrs ago to see if it was something I would like doing now and it was not for me, I finished my classes and passed them but never went back. My recommendation is your daughter should go right after high school and get it over with. The 4 yrs flys by and she will be glad she done it because there will be more opportunities for her even if the degree is not related to the job she wants. This is what I will recommend my daughters.

 

[shelemm]

You have not said anything in your OP that would suggest other than planning to go to college. Taking a year off or not (in order to pursue something concrete) or starting off at a 2-year college is a minor question.

The earlier the easier as far as college is concerned. Most questions of workload in college are based on 'biting off more than you can chew' and/or what field of study to pursue. College workload can be much lighter than in high school, especially freshman classes. In fact, many college students have the problem of too much freedom, which maybe they can't handle.

Now, if your DD is not at all academically inclined, if she hates the idea of school, and is not at all motivated to learn in a classroom environment, that's different. But that's not what you said. Assuming she is fairly normal, college is without a doubt the best idea for her. It's not even a decision really. In most cases it would be a serious mistake not to pursue college.

 

[hanutedmansionmomma]

OP here - thanks everyone! I knew there would be a variety of responses - that's what I need to hear.

DD wants to go to college, has an idea about what she is interested in, and My DH and I have 3 college degrees between us. DD is not sure which college or for sure which path to take just yet (I realize this is fine! she's just starting senior year). She's excited at the prospect of going away to school, but this being the budget board, $ is definietly a big factor.

Was just trying to take the temperature of how important/useful a college degree is "these days", and 4 year vs an "art school" or junior college, or just waiting until you firm up what you want to do before jumping in and writing a big check (or getting a big loan).

 

[shelemm]

Let me add also that we are living in a world very different than the one from several years ago. I am seeing a codified hiring process now that was not in place before. In my industry, asking for a degree or applying through a Human Resources Department was a rarity. Now it is ALL the time. It is changing very rapidly.

Lessons learned about alternative paths to success can still be very valid, but at the same time getting a degree will very rarely hurt you, even if you want to be a plumber.

 

[crisi]

I think for a "professional" white collar job, a college degree is necessary. HOWEVER, an expensive one isn't. If you can't get into a top 100 school, don't bother paying more than $10k a year for college (maybe a little more by the time you add rooms and board).

 

[blanq]

I do have a 4 year degree and could not have gotten my management position in county government without it, so it has definately helped me to finish school.

DH, on the other hand, did not get his degree. Just out of HS, he tried a tech school, and then a University, but neither was up his alley. He quit and joined the Marine Corp. I think the 4 years of military life really helped him get some focus and discipline. He never went back to school, but did get a good job with a utility when he finished his military service, and he received training and an apprenticeship in his field that his employer paid for. He now makes a very good salary (more than I likely would ever make with my degree) with just a HS degree.

DS is 17 and a senior. He has never taken school seriously and has the grades to prove it. He finally seems to be kicking into gear this year and his grades are quite good at the moment, but perhaps it is a bit late. He wants to go to college. We have agreed (he and DH and I) that he should start at our local Community College for two years and live at home. He can get a 2 year degree, and then if he is doing well and wants to go on for his 4 year, he will have an easier time getting into a 4 yr college or University. We have agreed to fully fund his first two years of school, provided he maintains at least average grades. If he wants to pursue a 4 year degree after that, we will probably fund half and make him pay for the rest.

I do not think it is a bad thing for kids to take a couple of years after HS to work and take a class or two to see what interests them if thery do not have the focus to go directly to college after HS. If they opt to attend school after that, it is likely because they are really motivated to do so and they probably would do better as a result. I do think once you marry and have kids, it gets to be hard to do school at the same time, although my sister in law got her MBA while she was married, working FT and raising a toddler, so it can be done.

 

[tar heel]

I agree totally with shelemn and wonder whether mistysue lives in a parallel universe. I do see that she's young, so that may color her perception of a degree's value. Me, I'm not young.

OP -- you mentioned art school. If she is looking at the arts, I would highly recommend going the four-year accredited university route instead. That is a much broader education and will give her more fall-back avenues career-wise and make her a more rounded person for the rest of her life.

At our house, college is what you do after high school. We encourage them to pursue their passion and try to help them be realistic. I want them to have great jobs but also want them to be happy. Our oldest got a BS in a technically oriented field and has a ridiculously good job. His brother will graduate in May and will probably never have that kind of job, but he would be so miserable doing what his brother does.

 

[Fyrefly]

I agree for any white-collar job a 4 year is necessary. Doesn't matter what it's in, you need a 4 year.

That being said, unless you have a lot of $$$ to throw around, majoring in philosophy or something is a waste of time unless you know a publisher who will get you a book deal, or your DD's sole aim in life is to be a professor.

To be fair, I was college bound my whole life, but made the realistic decision that things I liked such as theater and writing fiction were best left as hobbies. I got a degree in Mechanical Engineering and don't regret it. Hard as crap, it was brutal, but you know what? All of my friends have jobs. And I'm working towards a graduate degree studying a field I personally find fascinating and I'm getting paid enough to do it that with enough budgeting I'm living financially independent of my parents.

I personally don't recommend the community college route. I think the opportunity I got to mature into a (young, I don't pretend to have that much wisdom yet) adult was invaluable. Community college is basically 13th grade. Your DD will still be living at home and going to school, nothing will really change. She might not know what she wants, but if she thinks she wants college eventually, go to the local big state college. Worked for me. Cheaper than something stupidly fancy but will give her at least a year to explore her options in a real academic setting. Plus a lot of schools don't take many credits from community college, so you may end up wasting $$ on classes she took to "explore" which won't even be transferred and she'll have to spend more time/money to do them again. Not necessarily the case but it could happen, and you need to be very careful if you're going to do CC with the intent of a 4year. Personally everyone I ever knew who got a CC 2-year degree thought it was useless and a waste of money. They all had to go to a 4 year later.

Sorry if that comes off a bit harsh, but that's just my experience with how CC's screw more people than they help.