College education?

[collegejunkie]

i would assume most well-paying jobs require a degree of some sort. i'm pre-dental, so a degree for me is obviously necessary. my dbf, however, doesn't want to go to professional or graduate school, so he is going into investment banking. he didn't need the actual degree to get his internship (probably a job offer at the end of summer), but he definitely needed to be in school (a good one) to even get looked at.

if college weren't necessary, why do people bother?

 

[Kimberly]

if college weren't necessary, why do people bother?

A great question. Unless you're self-employed or born rich, it is a necessary evil. I started my business while I was still in school, and ended up relatively lucky playing my cards right.

Investment banking is difficult to get into... top grades from a top school help. I know certain employers in NYC which ONLY look at Ivy League graduates.

Snobbery has to be a part of it. Another would be the American conception that education is a measure of intelligence: It's not. Couple that in with just about everyone getting a college degree these days, you'd be at a tremendous disadvantage by NOT going to college.

 

[manning]

Here's a dirty little secret and it was well known. I'm talking back in the 60s when I started working. Back then a lot of big companies did not have blacks working for them. If one applied they were told they did not qualify because they did not have a college degree. It was a way to get around discrimination charges. I have no idea if that is still done today. I've been retired for awhile.

Also back then the company would promote from within college or no college with success.

 

[low-key]

I got a decent job and never went to College, but I been pretty lucky

 

[castleview]

I think a problem we have is that we need credentials for even the smallest things right now. On the job training seems to be a thing of the past. I've seen people paying thousands of dollars for a certificate in something that my grandparents did 60 years ago.

 

[momof1princess]

i can't get a job even with a college degree. go figure. apparently, taking 11 years off to be a mom renders you useless, even though i've kept up, and even improved, my skills. i know, i know, 11 years is a long time, stupid me. i'm paying for my naivete now. i might as well go back to school, because i can't even get hired to be a cashier at k-mart.

 

[Anewman]

If you were doing the hiring...

A. No degree and no experience.
B. No degree and 5 years experience.
C. Degree and no experience.
D. Degree and 5 years experience.

I understand it would vary by job type, it is a general question.

And yes I understand, some smoke for 50 years and never develop a cough. And someone wins the lottery every week, but I tend to take the safer odds.

 

[LovableGluttons]

A great question. Unless you're self-employed or born rich, it is a necessary evil. I started my business while I was still in school, and ended up relatively lucky playing my cards right.

Investment banking is difficult to get into... top grades from a top school help. I know certain employers in NYC which ONLY look at Ivy League graduates.

Snobbery has to be a part of it. Another would be the American conception that education is a measure of intelligence: It's not. Couple that in with just about everyone getting a college degree these days, you'd be at a tremendous disadvantage by NOT going to college.

I remember a professor telling me that it only takes an IQ of 70 to make it through four years of college.

College helps, but it sure seems like the magic happens when someone with the aptitude and the passion is found for the job.

Granted, I needed nursing school to gain the skills I need as a nurse, but my husband has an MBA and holds a position that doesn't use his MBA at all.

Yet they wanted an MBA for the position! Sheesh!

 

[castleview]

i can't get a job even with a college degree. go figure. apparently, taking 11 years off to be a mom renders you useless, even though i've kept up, and even improved, my skills. i know, i know, 11 years is a long time, stupid me. i'm paying for my naivete now. i might as well go back to school, because i can't even get hired to be a cashier at k-mart.

Do you have any volunteer work you can list? I've organized after school programs for the last few years and I swear I do more than when I had a paid job. I'm hoping that will help me out. If one useful thing comes out of my English major, it's that I can "creatively" write my resume.

 

[Carly_Roach]

When discussing college degrees, a co-worker of mine says that a degree proves you can learn something. Based on the last three college graduates we've hired lately (all of whom who've moved on for one reason or another), I vacillate between two responses back to him:

"No. It doesn't. It proves you can memorize something for a short period of time."

Or

"Learning something and having the ability to apply that knowledge in the real world are obviously two different animals."

Every single one of the college graduates we've hired recently has had to be told specifically, exactly, down to the last detail how to do something, even a task as simple as research. (Which in theory should have been a required skill for college-level study)

I look at recent graduates as job security: I get to keep my job because I have to go around re-doing their jobs when they screw up. Their fall-back answer of "Well no one told me I had to....." only works the first few times.

 

[golfgal]

i would assume most well-paying jobs require a degree of some sort. i'm pre-dental, so a degree for me is obviously necessary. my dbf, however, doesn't want to go to professional or graduate school, so he is going into investment banking. he didn't need the actual degree to get his internship (probably a job offer at the end of summer), but he definitely needed to be in school (a good one) to even get looked at.

if college weren't necessary, why do people bother?

But he won't get a job in the investment banking business without a degree. He never would have gotten an internship without being on a degree track either, being in school or not.

I will argue that it isn't even so much the content you learn in college but the way colleges teach you to think, especially liberal arts schools that require classes like philosophy and other classes outside of your degree track. Teaching you to look at issues/problems, etc. from all side or many sides vs just the black and white thinking that most kids have that only have a high school diploma. There is also a maturity issue that goes along with going away to college, having to deal with problems and issues on your own, etc. that employers want to see. Think back to when you were 18, would you hire your 18 year old self for a position in your company now??

Obviously there are always exceptions to every rule but most 18 year old coming out of high school are not ready for the general job market.

 

[eliza61]

MY DH doesnt have a degree-he was in the Military instead.
He was passed up for promotions because the college grad always was the promoted one. Finally he was given the chance to be a Regional Salesman and has been the most successful one in his industry in our area for the last 20 years.

So yeah-the degree can open doors quicker

That's the rub. Nowadays many jobs use a college degree to weed out applicants.

In Philly, you don't have to have a college degree to take the test to be a policemen but in my township you have to have at least 2 years college.
So lately even civil service jobs are asking for folks who have some college experience.

 

[Becky2005]

We were just discussing this at work that the only catch with the college degree is that eventually there will be no skilled labor pool. The one guy owned his own business but closed it because he saw that he wouldn't be able to hire any machinists eventually because the trades aren't even offered at a lot of places anymore.

So, yes the college degree can open doors but on the other hand trades can make you lots of money.

 

[golfgal]

We were just discussing this at work that the only catch with the college degree is that eventually there will be no skilled labor pool. The one guy owned his own business but closed it because he saw that he wouldn't be able to hire any machinists eventually because the trades aren't even offered at a lot of places anymore.

So, yes the college degree can open doors but on the other hand trades can make you lots of money.

I lump these types of careers into "college" too I guess. If you have to go to a community college to learn your trade, that is pretty much the same as going to a 4 year college. One area that is just CRYING for workers is meat cutters/butchers. There are only 3 schools left in the nation that teach this now. We know of one outstanding meat market that closed because the owner just couldn't find anyone to hire. We know of another one that will close when the current owner retires. Both are/were thriving businesses and the owners make a VERY good living.

DS18 is applying for a "summer" job that if he gets the job, we won't care if he finishes college (well we still think he should but he can take a class or two here an there to do it). The starting pay is amazing and the growth potential is great too. I know a couple lawyers that left their law practices because they make more money at this job.

 

[Becky2005]

I lump these types of careers into "college" too I guess. If you have to go to a community college to learn your trade, that is pretty much the same as going to a 4 year college.

You might but the real word doesn't. It's not a Bachelor's degree, so it doesn't "count". At least that is what they are teaching around here and that Community College isn't "REAL" college. I was told by my 17 year old that my Associate Degree wasn't real because it was from the Community College.

 

[momof1princess]

Do you have any volunteer work you can list? I've organized after school programs for the last few years and I swear I do more than when I had a paid job. I'm hoping that will help me out. If one useful thing comes out of my English major, it's that I can "creatively" write my resume.

lots of volunteer work (DD's school and church), as well as an independent contractor job for 2 years, but that doesn't seem to matter. good luck in your search!!

 

[NatashaDisneyCM]

yes, 100% I find that you need an education. I am there I know!
I have been a hairdresser for 31 years, could no loner do, been in school now for going on 6 years, and got an Assc. Degree in science which was not good enough, had to go back.

And that is no guarantee, that I will even get a great job when done! and I have excellent references and job experience.
BUt my sister worked her way into a great position, by that was also years ago, I think those jobs are far and few between these days.

 

[Geoff_M]

I agree that for a lot of jobs a degree is a must, but I profoundly changed my view of the notion that "My kids must go to college" after I watched this speech by Mike Rowe, of Dirty Jobs fame, on how our society's view of "work" and it's value has become warped. Watch it, it's fascinating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc

 

[NaLisa]

lots of volunteer work (DD's school and church), as well as an independent contractor job for 2 years, but that doesn't seem to matter. good luck in your search!!

I know where you're coming from, but keep your chin up and hopefully something will come along. While you're job hunting, maybe expand your volunteer work to include a local charity or something in a leadership position. It's also helpful to make lots of contacts and let people know you're in the market for a job.

I was a SAHM mom for five years until youngest DD entered kindergarten this year. During that time, I did lots of volunteer work, freelance journalism and independent contract work. In addition to volunteering at church and school, I also led a scout troop, coached a soccer team and was a substitute teacher at a preschool. When I decided to re-enter the workforce a few months ago, I ran into some dead ends at first but finally found a perfect part-time job that took my volunteer experience into consideration.

 

[momof1princess]

I know where you're coming from, but keep your chin up and hopefully something will come along. While you're job hunting, maybe expand your volunteer work to include a local charity or something in a leadership position. It's also helpful to make lots of contacts and let people know you're in the market for a job.

I was a SAHM mom for five years until youngest DD entered kindergarten this year. During that time, I did lots of volunteer work, freelance journalism and independent contract work. In addition to volunteering at church and school, I also led a scout troop, coached a soccer team and was a substitute teacher at a preschool. When I decided to re-enter the workforce a few months ago, I ran into some dead ends at first but finally found a perfect part-time job that took my volunteer experience into consideration.

thank you! this gives me hope!