College degree or not?

HR should automatic hire someone with a college degree regards whether that they can do the job. Since they went to college since they so much smarter than the person with high school diploma. That is my understanding of this thread.

HR should hire whoever the hiring manager says he/she wants on the team. HR should only facilitate the process.

As an aside, I did an informal search of Indeed for C#. I found 51666 postings of which only half contained the word "degree". Only 30% contained the degree without the word equivalent. 95% of the positions contained the word experience.
 
Personally? I do not believe that a degree is needed. Certification is a different story though.

I've tried to find a career without my degree simply because I don't have the mental capacity that I use to (a stroke will do that to you!). When I was younger, I dreamed of going to Yale Law School. Right after my stroke (at 18, mind you) that dream was shot. I went from comprehending law books and reading a novel a week to barely being able to read the 1st HP book again....

I struggled through school for 3 more years because I felt like that was "what I was suppose to do". My whole family would constantly pressure me over the situation. Considering, however, that I didn't have the capabilities nor the confidence I use to have, I ended up thousands of dollars in debt with nothing to show for it.

After about 7 months off to recollect myself (and try to find a job), I found that no degree wasn't working for me either. I had no marketable skills (all I had was that I re-taught myself to read etc. again....)

So, I'm currently applying to JobCorps. It's a government run program that is 100% free to those who qualify (and I do). I am going to be able to get certification in the medical field for free (as well as some of my confidence back hopefully).

Will I go back to school one day? Maybe...but that will be because I want to, not because what society expects from me.

Just my two cents, take it or leave it...:hippie:
 
An education is never a waste.

I completely agree. I'm a teacher - went to undergrad 96-00. My parents, who I'm forever grateful to, paid for that degree. I went to a state college, got a great education, and got a great job.

My school pays for furthering my education - so I do just that. I earned my M.ed in Ed. Leadership (administration), got my National Board Certification, and am now working on my second M.ed in Literacy. I'll probably never go in to administration (I love working with the kids way too much!!), but I don't feel like that degree was a waste. That degree opened doors for me that might not otherwise be opened.

I always tell my students that it's better to open doors than it is to close them, and I firmly believe that! :thumbsup2


ETA: Oh, and I only mentioned that my school pays for furthering one's education because I'm always shocked at how many people don't take advantage of that! MOST of the faculty I work with do not continue on with their education. It makes me a bit sad!
 
Personally, I think it's extremely short-sighted to compare the value of an education to that of a car. Just search value of college education and you'll see a recent ny times article that boils down the numbers.
I am a big believer in education, but I also believe in making practical choices. You're over-simplifying the idea with the education vs. car comment.

Yes, it's hard to put a dollar figure on the value of an education, but there's also a point of diminishing returns. Some examples:

Is it worthwhile for a 50-year old who expects to work 5 more years to go back to school to earn a master's degree? Just to make up numbers, let's say it'd cost $15,000 in tuition and would increase her salary by $4000 per year. Would it be worth her time and effort?

Is it better for a prospective nurse with little money to do an LPN certification and begin working in a couple months, or to put in four years at a university and earn a BS RN so that she'll earn a bigger salary every month? What if she has children she must support today? What if she'd have to borrow to earn the BS?

Is it worthwhile for a person who plans to go into a lucrative field (say, orthodontics or dermatology) to borrow a large sum? Would you give the same answer for a person who plans to teach or go into social work?

Finally, to borrow from the general theme of this thread, if a woman has every intention of staying home with children and is earning a degree as a "safety net", how much education is reasonable? Should she push herself for a master's degree? Should she borrow?

Though I fully accept that a degree is a good thing, and though I firmly believe the idea that a person with a degree will earn more money over his lifetime . . . I don't think we can make a blanket statement about EVERYONE.
 

oh, and one thing to add?

My DBF didn't get a degree at all....he now works an amazing job that is currently fully supporting 2 households....

Even though it is the exception, it's just proof that it isn't required, (degree or certification if you have a marketable skill).
 
This part is just for the sake of statistics. I have a B.A, M.Ed, and am working on a second M.Ed. DH has a high school diploma. I make twice what he does.
That being said, if I could have afforded to stay home with DD (now 4). I would have done it in a heartbeat.
To the OP, if you WANT to stay home and CAN stay home...do it. You will probably not be a baby making factory forever and when your child/children are in school, then perhaps you can put your degree to good use. If you do NOT want to stay home, then go back to work.
Staying home isn't for everyone and working when you have kids isn't for everyone. Do what feels right to you. A word of caution though...things may change when you actually HAVE the baby. I thought I would go back to work after 6 weeks. The day we brought her home from the hospital I already knew that I wanted to be home with her for as long as possible (which was about 6 months for us).
 
Please, start with your kids young. Groom them to understand that education does not end at high school.

The minimum should be a Bachelor's degree.

While I think I theoretically (maybe) understand what you're getting at with this statement, I still feel like I need to raise a point or two.

Stating it like this without further embellishment, echoes a sentiment of elitism, and frankly, is what leads to a lot of the assumptions about the perceived "importance" of college.

Plenty of people can do exactly what they like to do for a living, can earn a good living, and can feel fulfilled in life without a degree. They might even prefer to simply learn on their own in a less formalized setting. A blanket statement that everyone should get a degree at least needs a bit of explanation; by itself is a very short-sighted statement.
 
I've taken a non-traditional path to get where I am in my career but I recognize that I am the exception and not the rule. I put money in 529 accounts each month to be able to provide for my DD's what my father was not able to provide for me.

For the lucky few.... raw intelligence, drive and opportunity can go a very long way. Success builds upon success and after awhile most people don't question why you don't have a degree. Some doors will remain closed but many more are open.

I'm in a very similar situation myself, and don't for a moment regret that I didn't get my degree. While I know that some professions may require the degree (medical and legal, specifically, come to mind) for obvious reasons, it's not as much of a hard requirement as a lot of people may think for many others. I'll certainly admit that it wasn't easy starting out, but with that I'll also say that the time I spent working jobs to build myself up all happened during the time which many of my similar-aged peers were in school... by the time they graduated I was positioned very well, career-wise.

This doesn't mean that I have anything against getting an education, either. Just that it shouldn't be viewed as the only path to success.
 
This doesn't mean that I have anything against getting an education, either. Just that it shouldn't be viewed as the only path to success.

Exactly. I left the Marines in 1996 and in 1997 I told my manager about another Marine who was getting out. A recruiter called his house and the person who took the message didn't bother to tell my friend and well you know what they say about opportunity. In retrospect I should have been more assertive in helping to make that connection.

So he went off to UNC to get his CS degree and graduated in 2001. Let's just say that didn't end well. By then I had become a team lead with all college grads (including one PhD and two MS) working for me and he couldn't get his foot in the door anywhere with his CS degree.
 
Everyone is confused at one stage. but now u have to decide it.. yesterday i was just searching few colleges and found liberalartscollegesorg . is a good site for u to search..y dont u mail the lecturers .. through this... i suppose they can guide u in a better way....
 
I must say, I've enjoyed this thread immensely. A lot of good points have been brought up, although I'm also a bit saddened by a few of the things that have been said, as well.

First, in direct response to the question as it was posed by the OP. Is being a SAHP a "waste" of a degree that one previously obtained? While it depends a bit on the exact situation, I'd generally tend to think that no, it's not a waste. That said, it's important to ask why did one get the degree in the first place? If it's for overall life experience, because you enjoy education, or just wanting to have specific skills that may be useful in life (job, or otherwise), I'd say any of those is a great reason to have been to college, and isn't a waste at all. The opposite case of one who had to finance the entire bill by loans and knew/suspected with little expectation to earn income as a result (which is not the OP at all, of course), then I'd say it was a rather poor decision.

What surprises me a bit, is how much discussion has been generated about equating degree = getting a good job. As I've alluded to in some of my specific responses, I think the nation has generally taken this mentality too much to heart, and in part created a double-edged sword... the perceived importance of the degree (and yes, in some cases that perception may be reality) has also led to a degree being less of a distinguishing factor among job candidates.

It's been "shown" that people who get more education make more money, right? Well, sort of. What's been shown (yes, many times) is that the average income (usually "median" is taken as average) among those employed tends to follow an increasing pattern. Namely, those with a doctorate, on average, make more money than those with a masters, and they make more than those with a bachelor's, etc, etc. This demonstrates pretty convincingly that there is a correlation between amount of education and income.

What this does NOT show however, is that there is any type of causal relationship between the two. Many bloggers, journalists, and commercials for two-bit fly-by-night "universities" (my favorite of all) are quick to quote the statistics in a way that assumes such causation. The whole correlation vs causation misunderstanding makes the income level statements a very tired argument to my ears.

What I'd love to see (and doubt I ever will) is a study that successfully isolates the education variable from others. In a pure sense, this is of course impossible, since you can't compare the same person against themselves with and without a degree (over the same time period of their life). Let me propose a thought experiment like this... let's take a sampling of a whole bunch of people who were in National honor society, or graduated in the top n% of their class, or have an IQ above X. (What group of people you pick is not important, you get the idea) Now let's compare those who did go to college with those who didn't go to college... and that's where we have a problem, the overwhelming majority do in fact go on to get more education, so those that don't are already rare outlying cases. To put it yet another way, when you compare those who complete more education against those who don't, you're implicitly making a distinction between those who are hard working, motivated, or possibly gifted in various ways, against those who aren't... and though not identical, these are largely the same traits that ultimately do well in the work-force... so it should come as no surprise whatsoever that, on average, those who go to college make more money. But... it doesn't mean that if person X goes to college, he/she is magically going to make more money.

Okay, all of my rambling aside (my apologies), one thing I'd really like to thank everyone for, is pointing out something very important that I had hither to never really considered. The value of education for either life experience or because one simply enjoys learning. I think these are probably--at least in my mind-- the best reasons for getting a degree. And to the OP specifically, your degree wasn't a waste at all. For anyone else, if getting a degree is something you want to do (for personal satisfaction, or because you've made a well thought decision that it's a good idea for your career or whatever else), then I would say definitely go for it, and don't ever regret it :)
 
FYI, I have reported the post a few up by sheryll which is obviously spam with a questionable attempt at a website link in it.

Secondly, I think some people are losing sight of the original post. The original poster wasn't asking about herself (she doesn't have a degree as she stated), she was talking about a statement that her neighbor made about HER degree being a waste if she decides to become a SAHM and was just posing the question here to see what everyone thought.
 
Really? Why shouldn't I consider ROI?

Personally i feel that with the way higher ed costs have exceeded inflation for so long that it's the next bubble.

Too much easy money and too many students.
 
While I think I theoretically (maybe) understand what you're getting at with this statement, I still feel like I need to raise a point or two.

Stating it like this without further embellishment, echoes a sentiment of elitism, and frankly, is what leads to a lot of the assumptions about the perceived "importance" of college.

Plenty of people can do exactly what they like to do for a living, can earn a good living, and can feel fulfilled in life without a degree. They might even prefer to simply learn on their own in a less formalized setting. A blanket statement that everyone should get a degree at least needs a bit of explanation; by itself is a very short-sighted statement.


Elitism? No, I'm practical. If I groom my children to go to college after high school and get a degree that also gives them a marketable skill, they will have a leg up.

If I pay for them to go to college, and they go and are then able to support themselves well, I have abetter chance of not having to support them financially later on when they cannot earn a living for themselves.

My parents did not pay for me to go to college. I worked full time and paid my own way.

If one of my children had a talent that they could turn into a lucrative career without college, I'd support that endeavor as well. I would still pay for them to go to college if that fell through.


As it stands, my son would like to be a surgeon, my daughter a veterinarian.

So, I'll pay.


If I did not go to college and turn that into a career, the chance of them completing school falls as tuition has skyrocketed since I was a college student.

No elitism here. Just simple common sense. I hope my children can earn their own living and not depend on a spouse to support them. With the current divorce rate, it is just too much of a gamble.

There is nothign wrong with delaying marriage and birthing children until you can support yourself by yourself.
 
HR should hire whoever the hiring manager says he/she wants on the team. HR should only facilitate the process.

As an aside, I did an informal search of Indeed for C#. I found 51666 postings of which only half contained the word "degree". Only 30% contained the degree without the word equivalent. 95% of the positions contained the word experience.

I'm going to have to chime in here...the problem right now, is that HR isn't even looking at resumes of people who don't have degrees (in some companies). That completely infuriates me. My dad was just telling me the other day about a position he had posted and the person who he had in mind for this job was actually working for him at the time. This person doesn't have a degree and even though he applied for it, was currently DOING this position (basically a promotion for him), his resume NEVER even hit my dad's desk! Why? Because when he applied he didn't have a degree.

I know a lot of it has to do with the fact that the pool of applicants are so large, but honestly, if these HR people know nothing about these positions other than to look for one line that says "College Degree Yes/No" that is really a sad day. I mean if that's the case, why does someone have to have a degree to be an HR recruiter? KWIM?:confused3
 
I'm going to have to chime in here...the problem right now, is that HR isn't even looking at resumes of people who don't have degrees (in some companies). That completely infuriates me. My dad was just telling me the other day about a position he had posted and the person who he had in mind for this job was actually working for him at the time. This person doesn't have a degree and even though he applied for it, was currently DOING this position (basically a promotion for him), his resume NEVER even hit my dad's desk! Why? Because when he applied he didn't have a degree.

I don't know what the position was for and in what company, but again, what does HR have to do with it (within reason)?

Generally, the hiring manager should be working with HR to tweak the requirements to open the door for the canidate that he is looking for. If you are part of the "large pool" of applications, well sorry, don't do that. The trick is to make that connection with someone on the inside.

I've had somewhere between 7 and 14 jobs in the last 15 years. ( Don't ask, it's complicated.) I've never been 'on the bench'. Once I interviewed for a company that is in the business of developing educational curriculum. At this company the culture puts a high value on degrees.

Later a coworker asked me "How did you get an offer (I didn't accept) from them? I've been trying to work there for years."

The trick was easy. I jumped on LinkedIn and found someone in my circle that had done the job in the past. I took him out to lunch and asked him about the company and it's needs. When I showed up to the interview I was loaded for bear. I was able to take control of the interview and turn it into a 30 minute "Here is how I'm going to fix your problems." presentation.

The trick is to show them that degree or no degree that you are the best possible hire to do whatever it is that needs to be done. At the end of the day that is all they care about and the rest is just efforts to answer that question.
 
I am a SAHM, currently "wasting" a BS and masters degree in engineering. ;) I love it even though I was not someone who graduated from high school focused on finding a husband and having children. Having kids was not even on my mind when I finished grad school, although I was recently married by that time. Going to college after high school made complete sense for me at the time because the work I wanted to do required a college degree.

I worked through college and had scholarships, and I only had a few thousand dollars of loans when I finished graduate school. I made pretty good money working for five years before I had children, and I have worked part time (off and on - I'm not working at all right now) with a nice hourly rate since my oldest son was born. For me, college was well worth the time and money, even if I never return to engineering, but I suppose I might feel differently if I had graduated with large student loans.
 
Again, depends on what you desire to do.

At the end of the day, if you are applying for a position where the requirements clearly state "BA (or MA) in X" you will not be called in for an interview.

I will be the first one to admit that college is a HOOP you need to jump through if the career you desire requires a college education. However, it is a necessary hoop and shows you are able to persevere through things you may even find meaningless.

Dawn

I don't know what the position was for and in what company, but again, what does HR have to do with it (within reason)?

Generally, the hiring manager should be working with HR to tweak the requirements to open the door for the canidate that he is looking for. If you are part of the "large pool" of applications, well sorry, don't do that. The trick is to make that connection with someone on the inside.

I've had somewhere between 7 and 14 jobs in the last 15 years. ( Don't ask, it's complicated.) I've never been 'on the bench'. Once I interviewed for a company that is in the business of developing educational curriculum. At this company the culture puts a high value on degrees.

Later a coworker asked me "How did you get an offer (I didn't accept) from them? I've been trying to work there for years."

The trick was easy. I jumped on LinkedIn and found someone in my circle that had done the job in the past. I took him out to lunch and asked him about the company and it's needs. When I showed up to the interview I was loaded for bear. I was able to take control of the interview and turn it into a 30 minute "Here is how I'm going to fix your problems." presentation.

The trick is to show them that degree or no degree that you are the best possible hire to do whatever it is that needs to be done. At the end of the day that is all they care about and the rest is just efforts to answer that question.
 
I don't know what the position was for and in what company, but again, what does HR have to do with it (within reason)?

Generally, the hiring manager should be working with HR to tweak the requirements to open the door for the canidate that he is looking for. If you are part of the "large pool" of applications, well sorry, don't do that. The trick is to make that connection with someone on the inside.

I've had somewhere between 7 and 14 jobs in the last 15 years. ( Don't ask, it's complicated.) I've never been 'on the bench'. Once I interviewed for a company that is in the business of developing educational curriculum. At this company the culture puts a high value on degrees.

Later a coworker asked me "How did you get an offer (I didn't accept) from them? I've been trying to work there for years."

The trick was easy. I jumped on LinkedIn and found someone in my circle that had done the job in the past. I took him out to lunch and asked him about the company and it's needs. When I showed up to the interview I was loaded for bear. I was able to take control of the interview and turn it into a 30 minute "Here is how I'm going to fix your problems." presentation.

The trick is to show them that degree or no degree that you are the best possible hire to do whatever it is that needs to be done. At the end of the day that is all they care about and the rest is just efforts to answer that question.

In large corporations a lot of the time the hiring managers have ZERO say in the resumes/applications that are sent to them for consideration. Because so many companies were faced with favoritism accusations by other applicants that were "more qualified than the person hired" they have taken a lot of the ability to promote people away. For example, in my dad's case, what he was basically trying to do was to promote this person. However, for fair employment purposes a new "position" had to be created and the application pool was opened to anyone and everyone to apply for the position. Yes, my dad had to go 2 levels above him to contact HR to release this applicants resume/application, but in reality, like you said, HR really should be contacting the hiring manager to find out what the manager finds key in the requirements.

I feel that sometimes they take that pile of applications, and simply look for one line - Degree. I mean for cryin' out loud my aunt has a degree in criminal justice and is working as a collections manager at this same company. Another one of her co-workers has a degree in meteorology. Really? To me, if you're going to require someone to have a degree for all of your positions, then I would think the degree (if it's that important) should at least be applicable to the position.:mad:
 
In large corporations a lot of the time the hiring managers have ZERO say in the resumes/applications that are sent to them for consideration.


Entirely true at my large firm (and the prior one I worked at as well). The minimum requirement for a professional job is a 4 year degree. HR will NOT forward resumes to the hiring manager that do not meet that minimum criteria, period. Our hiring managers have very little ability to get candidates interviewed that don't meet that - it has to be taken up many levels of management and most managers aren't willing to bother their managers. So like it or not, at some firms, HR may not make the final decision of course, but they have a lot to do with it - they are the gatekeepers.
 














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