College degree or not?

[Swimalie]

I think this statement more shows the value of 39 years worth of inflation than necessarily just showing the value of a degree specifically... after 39 years of working in a job it's not just advancement and promotion, but largely cost of living increases that figure into one's salary.

My father-in-law got automatic cost of living increases and got promotions. His lack of degree kept him in a lower grade of pay scale versus my husband, who has a degree. Father-in-law was a mechanic. My husband works in an office job as an instructor, something my father-in-law could never do without a degree and, it even requires that you graduated in the top 2% of your college class, which my husband did.

 

[chrpai]

At the end of the day, if you are applying for a position where the requirements clearly state "BA (or MA) in X" you will not be called in for an interview.

I will be the first one to admit that college is a HOOP you need to jump through if the career you desire requires a college education. However, it is a necessary hoop and shows you are able to persevere through things you may even find meaningless.

Sorry, I am living proof that this is not always true. There are other paths to demonstrate perseverance.

 

[jodifla]

Sorry, I am living proof that this is not always true. There are other paths to demonstrate perseverance.

You got lucky. That's nice. But it's hard to recommend "luck" as a career path.

 

[timmac]

You got lucky. That's nice. But it's hard to recommend "luck" as a career path.

At the same time, it's kind of disingenuous to write off hard work as simply "luck". Like the PP, I can also vouch that college isn't the only path from A to B. To be clear, having the degree may certainly make things easier at times, and there are a few companies that are sticklers about it (though in my experience, not as many as you might think), but to write off the experience as only luck is at best understating it.

 

[DawnM]

I am speaking of jobs that do require a BA or MA or even a PhD. There may be a job or two out there that will allow you to get by without those, if those are indeed requirements, but they are few and far between. I have already stated that DH is a CPA with an MA and I am a high school counselor (with 2MAs), both of which you cannot get a job in the field with just perseverance.

However, I do have a friend who was military for 22 years and has gotten by with his perseverance and experiences in jobs that "typically" would require a BA, HOWEVER, a BA is strongly preferred for his field and not a REQUIREMENT.

You can argue with me all you want, but you are the exception, not the rule, and I still 100% stand by my statement that college is the better choice if you have the academic fortitude.

Dawn

Sorry, I am living proof that this is not always true. There are other paths to demonstrate perseverance.

 

[jmpellet]

To me, we can all bicker back and forth over the value, or lack thereof in higher education (or a credential), and until the last 10 years this could go either way. Many, many families have done just fine without college degrees BUT during the last decade, countries beyond our borders have risen to the occasion and the everyday lives that we and our families have enjoyed might not be the same in 20 years when we are no longer the top dog. These students and their families are driven to get education because they want a chunk of what we have called our American dream in the last half century. They now taste it and want more. They are obviously more committed than we are as they groom their children from birth. We are still discussing whether its worth the price of a car...

 

[OThopeful35]

Take a look at your doctor as well. We bring hundreds of FMGs (foreign medical graduates) each year into this country to fill residency spots, many stay. They are the best and the brightest of their country and they come here because we are not graduating enough doctors. In the meantime, we are also draining the educational elite from countries that NEED these people to help move them along the developmental timeline. Wonder why third world countries don't have decent medical care? Their doctors are here.

I just seen a news spot on this but now China and India are becoming more aggressive at recruiting their own. Those that come here from those countries are now going back to those countries to compete with the USA. They say the rate is increasing because they are getting lucrative offers to go back to their respective countries. I found the video I watched. This really needs to be taken seriously. We have to be able to compete because if their best and brightest start going back to their countries...we are in big trouble

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7299140n

 

[chrpai]

At the same time, it's kind of disingenuous to write off hard work as simply "luck". Like the PP, I can also vouch that college isn't the only path from A to B. To be clear, having the degree may certainly make things easier at times, and there are a few companies that are sticklers about it (though in my experience, not as many as you might think), but to write off the experience as only luck is at best understating it.

About 5 years into my career I looked back and thought something along the lines of "wow, how did I get here? I am so lucky." I told that story to my manager once and he just lauged and told me that if luck had anything to do with it's because I know how to make my own luck.

I realize now that it wasn't luck. Well except for the part where I met my DW (college grad) and she told me to pursuit my dreams instead of moving back to Cleveland, OH when I was getting out of the Marines.

 

[collegejunkie]

i haven't read through the whole thread, but i'm in my 3rd year of undergrad and it's absolutely worth it. for me, perhaps, more so than someone not pursuing professional school (my goal is dental school), just because i need a bachelors to apply. even still, i would want to be able to take care of myself and never have to lean on anyone in case of an emergency. dbf is walking out of school into a big banking firm and will be making a high salary just with a bachelors (to be fair, we're at an ivy, which makes it easier to get into these firms, but still). for him, it was also worth it. it will take more time for me to be working, but even with his awesome job, i wouldn't want to be a SAHM because i'd probably get bored and i'd personally feel useless. if all works out, it will be that one of us will cover essentials and the other will cover money for saving and fun stuff, like vacations. i like the security of never needing to worry if one of us will have a job or not. worst case scenario, people always need dentists, so i will always be able to find employment if (knock on wood) something happens with his job. i absolutely need school for that, both undergrad and beyond.

my 2 cents.

 

[MrsPete]

Personally, I think it's extremely short-sighted to compare the value of an education to that of a car. Just search value of college education and you'll see a recent ny times article that boils down the numbers.

In all honesty, you're twisting the discussion a bit to say that people are comparing a college degree to the cost of a car.

Rather, the discussion was about going into debt for an education, which means that later in life the student is going to essentially be making the payment on a car that he can't drive! Personally, I'd rather see my daughters choose a less expensive school, live at home and commute, or go part-time rather than go into debt -- especially if they're getting the degree as a "safety net" and don't intend to actually work with it.

That doesn't mean I don't want them to get a degree -- it just means that the cost IS a consideration! I want them to choose a school that'll be a good value, and I want them to graduate without debt. I want them to be able to begin their professional lives without being crippled by debt.

What surprises me a bit, is how much discussion has been generated about equating degree = getting a good job. As I've alluded to in some of my specific responses, I think the nation has generally taken this mentality too much to heart, and in part created a double-edged sword... the perceived importance of the degree (and yes, in some cases that perception may be reality) has also led to a degree being less of a distinguishing factor among job candidates.

While I'd like to see education in such a pure sense -- to say that it's all about bettering ourselves, that knowledge is priceless -- it is a very, very expensive proposition, and the ability to get a job IS the most important thing about the degree to me. The intangibles are wonderful, but most of us just can't justify saving for 18 years without the promise of employ-ability too!

 

[Colleen27]

I feel that sometimes they take that pile of applications, and simply look for one line - Degree. I mean for cryin' out loud my aunt has a degree in criminal justice and is working as a collections manager at this same company. Another one of her co-workers has a degree in meteorology. Really? To me, if you're going to require someone to have a degree for all of your positions, then I would think the degree (if it's that important) should at least be applicable to the position.

I agree, but it has become a way of filtering out the "riff-raff". Unfortunately, a lot of good, hardworking people get filtered out too, but so long as there are enough applicants to keep the positions filled that's not going to change.

While I'd like to see education in such a pure sense -- to say that it's all about bettering ourselves, that knowledge is priceless -- it is a very, very expensive proposition, and the ability to get a job IS the most important thing about the degree to me. The intangibles are wonderful, but most of us just can't justify saving for 18 years without the promise of employ-ability too!

Exactly. If the goal is purely self-improvement, there are other ways to accomplish that that don't cost as much as a modest house. Simple economics make it difficult for all but the very well off to look at college as purely for the accumulation of knowledge and the individual growth of the experience. And even then, I'm pretty sure most of the education purists would draw the line somewhere with a child who wanted to keep "bettering himself" for 5-6-7+ years without actually completing a degree!

 

[homedad]

as a father with both my BS and MBA and who now is basically a SAHD due to medical issue.....i'd never trade those experiences and I paid for quite a bit of my education.....as I read elsewhere: an education is never a waste

 

[ajh88]

All my mother ever wanted to do was get married and have children. That is what she did - married 6 months after graduating high school, I was born 2 years later and my sister 2 years after that. The rub was that she *had* to work - my dad has always been a farmer, and not one of the "rich" ones. She worked at a variety of blue collar jobs over the years and eventually (after me and my sister were in school) got an associate's degree in respiratory therapy. She hated that job, so she went back to blue collar work.

She still works now and is the primary breadwinner in my parents home (she has been at the same company for 18 years and has advanced into management now). I guess my point is, she still valued an education, even though her goal in life was to have a family. And she further instilled that value in her daughters - my sister graduated with her Master's last May and I am graduating from pharmacy school this May.

Does that make us better or worse than someone who chose a different path? No - but formal education is about more than just learning facts and information from books, IMHO. I also personally think that some companies that require a degree (even if not in a relevant field) must place some value on the commitment it took to obtain the degree - you started something and followed through on it, KWIM?

I am firmly in the camp of education is good thing (usually), but I will agree with the PPs who say that if you have to go into crushing debt to do it, you may want to think twice (especially if you are certain you will not be working after graduating).

FWIW, I have always worked outside the home, would never have been qualified for any job I've held after college without a degree, and my DH (who HATED school and was lucky to finish high school!) is a SAHD/manny for my nephews and niece, and he's great at it!