College degree or not?

[Kriii]

I haven't read through all of the answers, just the original question. IMHO, it is a serious mistake for a woman to not get SOME type of education and marketable skill, even if the plan is to stay home and raise children. If not a college degree, then at least a marketable trade. The best laid plans go wrong all of the time. In my mind, willfully remaining uneducated is asking for trouble. I have two college degrees and have the peace of mind knowing that I can take care of myself and my child financially, barring a health emergency that would prevent me from working. If something should happen to my husband and he couldn't work, I would still be earning enough money to support us. Better to have a degree and not use it than need it and not have it....

 

[DawnM]

Many more? I don't think so. DH and I are both in careers which require MAs as a min. education level. A dear friend is stuck where he is because moving up in the company requires a BA as a min. He is watching folks with drama degrees move up ahead of him even though I do beleive he is smart enough and has the know how to do the higher level job. But he has one year left to finish his BA but wont' get off his butt to do it.

I don't know what you do for a living, but you commented first that you are the exception and then talk about the lucky few, and then at the end say that MORE doors will remain open if you just have drive vs. an education.

Dawn

I've taken a non-traditional path to get where I am in my career but I recognize that I am the exception and not the rule. I put money in 529 accounts each month to be able to provide for my DD's what my father was not able to provide for me.

For the lucky few.... raw intelligence, drive and opportunity can go a very long way. Success builds upon success and after awhile most people don't question why you don't have a degree. Some doors will remain closed but many more are open.

 

[DawnM]

Has she gone and talked to an advisor in a University? I would think she may want to take some refresher courses, but she certainly would NOT have to start over. If she gets some pre-requisites at the undergrad level, she most certainly could prove she is competent and then apply for an MA program. There would certainly be no reason to start her undergrad general education requirements over again!

I have a friend who did this actually. She had a BA in computer something or other. She was worried she would have to start over. She didn't! She needed about 5 classes in undergrad first and then went on to get her MA and did find a job in her field. Of course, for her, she didn't make as much as she would have had she been working for the 20-25 years prior, but she did ok.

While I think it is never a waste to go to college, I am also the first one to say it is never a waste to stay home and be with your children if that is what you desire.

One thing that really gets me is people who are not pro-active. I am NOT saying this about your friend, but over and over again, I see people wallowing in their "Oh, it just won't work" mentality without actually TRYING to figure out how it can be done.

I will give an example. I went for my second grad degree at a University. Towards the end I decided I really only needed the credential and not the MA as I already had another MA and CA didn't require me to get an MA in the new area as long as I already had an MA in something.

When DH told me he wanted to move out of state I started researching and found that our new state would NOT hire me in that field without a full MA in that particular area. I went back to my Univ. and met with the advisor. She told me that because the program had changed, I would have to essentially start over again. I was almost in tears.

However, I decided to take the bull by the horns and wrote a letter to the head of admissions explaining my situation and how I left the Univ. with only 2 classes and a thesis to finish up and could I please finish up those only to complete my requirements. He responded with a WRITTEN approval of my request and I was able to finish up in the next semester.

So, just because person A says no or you think so and so will not allow it, go higher up, beat down doors, get 'er done!

I could give several other examples of people who think they have hit a blocked door, only to persist and get it open.

Dawn

She's 51 years old. She has a BA, in computer science, but hasn't worked in the field in nearly 30 years. Nobody is going to hire her to do computer science. If she went back to get a Masters, she would have to essentially get a bachelor's first, because it has been so long. To get a first job at 55 or so, well, I wish her luck with that, but I think she'll end up doing check out at Target if she's lucky. So sad.

 

[Pigeon]

My friend did check into what she'd need to do to get into a masters program at all the local colleges. No, she wouldn't need to take gen ed classes, and that would help, but she would need to take all the CS courses over again. She would also need to take most of the higher level math and statistics courses again. She doesn't remember most of that at all. So, it wouldn't be four years, but would probably be two before she could do the masters. She may yet end up trying to do that.

She's not rolling over and saying "oh well," she's trying to figure out a way to support her family at this point while dealing with grief and depression, both hers and her children's. It's hard for her to decide what her chances are of getting hired in the field at her age, when many experienced CS professionals are being laid off because of their similar age, and balancing that with the cost. Not pleasant.

And nobody is saying life insurance isn't a great idea. It's essential. But it's not a panacea, either.

 

[DawnM]

Has she looked into alternative programs, like private schools or online colleges? Often they are more willing to work with you on getting those classes you need sooner so that you can move on.

However, if she doesn't remember most of them, it would be good to get a refresher. Perhaps the private colleges or online classes would at least help her finish in fewer than 2 years.

No, I didn't mean to single her out, which is why I tried to clarify. I just hear this victim mentality a lot and wanted to point out that it doesn't have to be that way....sorry if it seemed like I was talking specifically about her.

Dawn

My friend did check into what she'd need to do to get into a masters program at all the local colleges. No, she wouldn't need to take gen ed classes, and that would help, but she would need to take all the CS courses over again. She would also need to take most of the higher level math and statistics courses again. She doesn't remember most of that at all. So, it wouldn't be four years, but would probably be two before she could do the masters. She may yet end up trying to do that.

She's not rolling over and saying "oh well," she's trying to figure out a way to support her family at this point while dealing with grief and depression, both hers and her children's. It's hard for her to decide what her chances are of getting hired in the field at her age, when many experienced CS professionals are being laid off because of their similar age, and balancing that with the cost. Not pleasant.

And nobody is saying life insurance isn't a great idea. It's essential. But it's not a panacea, either.

 

[Colleen27]

But what if you husband (or the working spouse) leaves you - rather than dying? Or becomes disabled and has to go on disability? Would you get more money from a life insurance policy than you would in these other situations?

I don't think anyone has suggested that a SAHM can eliminate all risk stemming form the choice to leave the workforce, but the death of the wage earner was thrown out often enough that life insurance came into the conversation.

The only way to be 100% sure you can support your family on your own is to make that your priority, and that's something that gets overlooked in the talk of having a degree to "fall back" on. It is unrealistic at best to think that because a woman earned a degree at 22 before having kids that she can just dust it off and find a decent job at 40 after being out of the workforce for all those years.

 

[KigerKat]

Here's my situation...

I was laid off about 16 months ago, and I don't have a college degree. I spent about a month or two trying to find a new job, but my search went nowhere and I think it was because I do not have a college degree. I think in this market, employers are more likely to hire someone with a degree over someone without - regardless of the position.

Fortunately for me, my husband has an excellent job and I don't really have to work. We don't have any children, which is a big help financially. We also live in a state where we have a lottery funded scholarship program that pretty much pays for most of college costs (not including books). I have always wanted to be a teacher, and even though the job market is not that great for teachers right now there is a lot one can do with an education degree besides teaching. There just happens to be a community college that offers a 4 year degree in education about 15 miles from our home, so it seemed like a no-brainer to go back and finish my goal.

Now, as far as "wasting my time" getting my degree, I don't think education is ever a waste of time. We do plan on having children and we have not really discussed weather or not I will stay home with them. We are purposely waiting until after I graduate to have children because I have a feeling that I will never finish school if we have a child while I'm still going. If I do stay home with our children, I want the option to go back to work when my child starts school.

So, I think your friend will realize that she is fortunate to have those options now. I have personally always regretted not going to school at the "appropriate" age. I think I missed out on a lot of experiences and opportunities by joining the workforce right away. I'm not saying that it's wrong not to go to college, I just can't understand why someone would regret going.

 

[chrpai]

I don't know what you do for a living, but you commented first that you are the exception and then talk about the lucky few, and then at the end say that MORE doors will remain open if you just have drive vs. an education.

Sorry, that isn't what I wrote at all.

What I'm trying to get across is that for some, there is an alternate path. And for those that succeed in that path, there will be the occasional door that is not open because of the lack of a degree. However, many doors will not be constrained by such thinking.

Yes, this is the edge case for unique individuals in certain industries. I recognize the general case and save monthly in 529 plans for my daughters.

As for me, I was a computer geek growing up since the age of 8. I served in the Marine Corps and it was there I made connections to help me land my first job in a large multinational company. It wasn't important that I didn't have a degree. I was able to demonstrate professionalism, technical expertise, innovation and productivity well beyond my resume.

Over the years it's only come up twice during interviewing that I didn't have a degree. It doesn't bother me... it's their loss.

 

[MrsPete]

I haven't read through all of the answers, just the original question. IMHO, it is a serious mistake for a woman to not get SOME type of education and marketable skill, even if the plan is to stay home and raise children. If not a college degree, then at least a marketable trade. The best laid plans go wrong all of the time. In my mind, willfully remaining uneducated is asking for trouble. I have two college degrees and have the peace of mind knowing that I can take care of myself and my child financially, barring a health emergency that would prevent me from working. If something should happen to my husband and he couldn't work, I would still be earning enough money to support us. Better to have a degree and not use it than need it and not have it....

This is exactly the philosophy I'm trying to instill in my daughters -- and it seems that many people on this thread think the very same thing. It just seems like common sense to me.

The only way to be 100% sure you can support your family on your own is to make that your priority, and that's something that gets overlooked in the talk of having a degree to "fall back" on. It is unrealistic at best to think that because a woman earned a degree at 22 before having kids that she can just dust it off and find a decent job at 40 after being out of the workforce for all those years.

You're right that a degree earned even a decade ago will lose its "edge", that the world moves fast and people who are out of the work force often find it difficult to find a door to "let them back in".

However, this "if you need to go back to work" scenerio has many moving parts, and it's hard to generalize. Certainly the woman trying to re-enter the workforce with a degree is better off than the woman trying to re-enter the workforce with only a high school diploma. But what if she's been out of work for 20 years, while her competition has an associate's degree and has only been out for 5 years? It's less clear. And her field matters: A person in a technical field will have more difficulty re-entering the workforce than a teacher (though I am a teacher, and our field has changed significantly over the years too).


And as for the life insurance -- that probably isn't going to be enough to last the widowed SAHM for the rest of her life. Rather, it's enough to get her over the transition, perhaps give her the chance to get back into school, and to start earning a wage. It's to supplement the retirement /Social Security she hasn't been building up over the years. Because she's going to come in at an entry-level wage and will need all of it for living expenses, it's to make up for what she won't be able to put aside for the kids' college. Realistically, families with a non-working spouse NEED BOTH a return-to-work-in-case-of-emergency plan AND life insurance. None of us think we won't live to raise our kids, to see our financial obligations fulfilled . . . but some of us won't make it that long.

 

[timmac]

My husband, with his degree and only working for 9 years is making 5 times as much as his dad did after working for 39 years before he passed away with only a HS diploma (same employer). To me, that shows a huge value in getting a degree.

I think this statement more shows the value of 39 years worth of inflation than necessarily just showing the value of a degree specifically... after 39 years of working in a job it's not just advancement and promotion, but largely cost of living increases that figure into one's salary.

 

[timmac]

I said this on the other thread, but my opinion depends on how the degree will be paid for. There's no reason not to get a degree if loans aren't a factor, IMO. It is student loan debt that muddies the issue.

I think this is a really really, really important point. I'm personally not a big fan of college, but in a case where someone can afford to go (or already has a fund aside, has a full scholarship, or something like that) I'd have a hard time arguing they simply shouldn't, assuming they have any desire to do so at all.

What I think makes me cringe a little bit, is a bit of an unspoken assumption that "everyone should go to college after high school", and the overly casual attitude towards paying for it all with loan money. An increase (at least in my observation) in third party loan companies, as well as a lot of questionable post-secondary institutions that advertise frequently on tv and online, only promote this mindset.

I think a lot of students (and even parents, sadly) are a bit brainwashed by the "importance" of college degrees, and make some very poor financial decisions which they come to regret. Having a ten years of loan payments that rival a decent car loan (or in the case of a young couple, combined, with nearly a mortgage payment in student loans) is nothing short of craziness for all but a very select few professions and cases where it is actually profitable to do so.

 

[MrsPete]

I think this is a really really, really important point. I'm personally not a big fan of college, but in a case where someone can afford to go (or already has a fund aside, has a full scholarship, or something like that) I'd have a hard time arguing they simply shouldn't, assuming they have any desire to do so at all.

What I think makes me cringe a little bit, is a bit of an unspoken assumption that "everyone should go to college after high school", and the overly casual attitude towards paying for it all with loan money. An increase (at least in my observation) in third party loan companies, as well as a lot of questionable post-secondary institutions that advertise frequently on tv and online, only promote this mindset.

I think a lot of students (and even parents, sadly) are a bit brainwashed by the "importance" of college degrees, and make some very poor financial decisions which they come to regret. Having a ten years of loan payments that rival a decent car loan (or in the case of a young couple, combined, with nearly a mortgage payment in student loans) is nothing short of craziness for all but a very select few professions and cases where it is actually profitable to do so.

I am a big fan of college, but I don't totally disagree with you:

I don't think "everyone should go to college after high school". I teach all too many students who don't like high school, don't read for pleasure, dislike all things academics . . . yet they're sure enough going to college! Why? Because people have told them that's the only road to a good job. Those are the people who go for a semester or a year and then drop out (in the worst case scenerios, they drop out with debt to repay). My personal opinion: Kids who don't have a clear vision of what they want to do should wait a bit rather than going straight to college. 18 is still firmly a kid, and working a couple years can provide the maturity to come back ready for college. However, all too many people in those couple years start a family or make other financial choices that make it difficult (at best, impossible at worst) to return to school.

I think student loans have done a great disservice to the college concept. Whereas, when I graduated people were slow to go into debt for ANYTHING, today it's become accepted /expected to borrow for college -- whoever coined that idiotic phrase "good debt" should be shot, though that person probably made a ton of money for his bank. I agree that too many people borrow blindly without considering that their repayment can be as much as the cost of a car or a mortgage. Many of the people who'd need to borrow heavily could probably make just as much money (over the course of years) by going to a short-term trade school and skipping the loans. Of course, people'll argue about not being able to meet their life-long goals without having THE JOB, etc. Personally, none of my real goals were ever work-related, so maybe I don't get it.

I also agree that the places that have to advertise on TV are probably poor investments in both dollars and time.

Am I glad I went to college? Yes!
Even though I had to work like a dog and did without necessities (sometimes even food) to get that degree? Yes!
Am I glad I did it right after high school? Yes! Although I was the academic, mature kid who was ready for it.
Is it the right path for everyone? No!

 

[taaren]

Now, as far as "wasting my time" getting my degree, I don't think education is ever a waste of time. We do plan on having children and we have not really discussed weather or not I will stay home with them. We are purposely waiting until after I graduate to have children because I have a feeling that I will never finish school if we have a child while I'm still going. If I do stay home with our children, I want the option to go back to work when my child starts school.

So, I think your friend will realize that she is fortunate to have those options now. I have personally always regretted not going to school at the "appropriate" age. I think I missed out on a lot of experiences and opportunities by joining the workforce right away. I'm not saying that it's wrong not to go to college, I just can't understand why someone would regret going.

Just FYI, I did my B.A. 'traditionally' right after high school, started an M.F.A., and decided I'd rather work instead of finishing that Master's. Fast forward 10 years, I was working full time and had DS2, decided I wanted a different Master's. Now DS is 4, currently about 2/3 of the way through the program. One year left! Degrees are do-able with full-time work and kids it just takes some patience and good time management. There's about 40-some-odd people in my program, less than half a dozen of us have kids (on top of jobs!), one has a 4 month old (was in class the week after she gave birth!). At least half of the people in the program work full time. Saturday and evening classes are very popular. While its easier to do a degree with no kids, its possible to get one after, and if anything it makes one more focused and driven.

And as a general comment to this thread, I agree with PPs that have said: if you regret getting an education, you didn't learn much. If you regret the high price tag for your education, that makes sense, and next time you want one, go someplace cheaper. There are many scholarships and decent quality educations to be had for reasonable prices. (One friend has gone to work in low level University admin positions in order to get two free Master's degrees!)

 

[Allison]

I do. Sorry. And even if you don't. It is just common sense to have enough to at least supply enough income to where the surviving spouse can go and get an education if they don't have one.

jI never said it had to carry you through your entire life. Although I know many people that have enough that it could. I just said it was vary irresponsible not to have it, at least enough to hole the surviving spouse over for a while without sending them into a financial hardship. Why is that so hard to understand?

Why so defensive? No one said it was hard to understand the value of life insurance.

 

[mom2val]

An education is never a waste.

I am very proud of my degree and so are my parents. Alot of hard work and sacrifice made it possible. I am a SAHM and have not worked in over 10 years. Dh and I have no plans for me ever to re-enter the work force - BUT if we needed me to I would. I do not feel my degree was wasted.I have a sense of pride that comes from being able to say " I am an Aggie".

Whoop class of '96

 

[jmpellet]

Personally, I think it's extremely short-sighted to compare the value of an education to that of a car. Just search value of college education and you'll see a recent ny times article that boils down the numbers.

 

[crazelion]

Then everyone that has college degree right now should have jobs since we better education then a person with high diploma.

HR should automatic hire someone with a college degree regards whether that they can do the job. Since they went to college since they so much smarter than the person with high school diploma. That is my understanding of this thread.

 

[Allison]

Then everyone that has college degree right now should have jobs since we better education then a person with high diploma.

HR should automatic hire someone with a college degree regards whether that they can do the job. Since they went to college since they so much smarter than the person with high school diploma. That is my understanding of this thread.

Sorry-but that is not my my understanding of this thread.

 

[DawnM]

Huh?

then everyone that has college degree right now should have jobs since we better education then a person with high diploma.

Hr should automatic hire someone with a college degree regards whether that they can do the job. Since they went to college since they so much smarter than the person with high school diploma. That is my understanding of this thread.

 

[Mom of 3 Princesses]

I am posting this on both the community board and here as I think it will be interesting to see from a budget perspective how the answers may or may not vary.

I was speaking with a neighbor the other day about a topic that really had me thinking. She was laid off from a company about 6 months ago and is currently staying home as she is pregnant with her first child. She expressed to me that she's really torn about whether or not to stay home after the baby is born because she feels that she (these are HER words) "WASTED getting a college degree in physics and chemistry" if her and her husband decide to have her stay home. She isn't nearly as up for her staying home as her husband is.

I don't have a degree, and I have never felt a loss for not having one. I have a good paying job and not having a degree hasn't in my opinion hindered me from promotions etc.

But it really got me thinking. I honestly think I would feel the same way. If you KNOW that you're going to have children, and have the conviction of staying home to raise your children, would you go to college to get a degree? I guess to me it would be more about the loan debt (assuming you had to pay for college) etc. If I knew I planned on staying home if/once I had children why do it?

Please share your experience/reasoning for getting or not pursuing a degree.

I love to share my .02.
Why go to school? For a job? or an education?
I quit college after the first year, and regretted it over and over. Struggled over and over. Ended up a single mom and life was REALLY REALLY tough. Oh, I had a good job, made some pretty good money, and traveled.. a lot, so as a single mom I let someone else raise my children while I made the money for us to live on.

What was my goal then? For me? For my children? For my future? Well, I don't know, but whatever that would be... I wouldn't really be able to do it without my education. So I quit my job, applied for financial aid, went to classes while my children were in school and lived off of 10,000 a year... yep 10K a year, but I still was getting that education.

I have 2 BA's one in English and one in History. Now, we could go into why a degree in the humanities... but that is for another thread. My education taught me about me and about my priorities and about my definition of myself and my definition of success. I now am moths away from my Masters. I have a good job working for the state and love going to work everyday!

I am now married to a College Professor, and we both agree that there are those that should go to college and those that do not need to go to college, so choosing to go to college is a choice absolutely.

My parents NEVER instilled the need for me to go to college. My children know that school does NOT end after 12th grade. I refer back to the lights being turned off when their mother was struggling and refer to now when they are blessed with a good home, a mom who is home every weekend and at night, to the places they have been, the food in their bellies and the pride that they will have when their world is expanded through education....