lifesavacation
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- Jan 24, 2016
There's a book called Outliers that ties birth month to athletic success. I read it a long time ago so am fuzzy with the details but I remember thinking it was interesting and made sense.
As to the question of whether it would be considered when looking at an athlete for recruitment, scholarships, etc I'm going with a solid no. As long as the athlete meets NCAA eligibility requirements and fits the needs of the program I don't think a coach is going to care whether they repeated a year and/or are one year older at graduation. Red shirting is very common in collegiate athletics, so it's all very familiar to them.
So, current events seem to have demonstrated the measures some parents will go through to get their kids into a college of their choice. I think this is related:
In a previous thread, I mentioned that my son's lacrosse teams have played in tournaments (unfortunately, often organized by High School graduation year) against plenty of teams that seem to have kids that are all a year or so older than traditional/average/expected ages for their school grade. For example, they have played a team full of 7th graders that had 14 year olds on it. Although somewhat annoying for a team that tries to follow the spirit of the age groups, it is unfortunately something we expect. I believe some tournaments even stipulate that a team can have a certain number of older kids. Whatever - that is not the reason for my post.
I had heard of the practice of holding a kid back a year for athletic reasons for some elite lacrosse middle schools. There was an article about this some time ago about schools in Maryland. However, I now know a parent that is going to do this very thing. My son plays on the same rec team as his son. His kid is going to be held back to repeat his 8th grade year. The kid has no problems academically or socially and is average age for his current class - the only reason, as admitted by the parent, will be for athletic considerations. In fact, the parent has said that he will not be allowed to repeat the grade by the public schools, as he has met all requirements for advancement. Therefore, the kid will have to either go to a private school or be home schooled for a year.
One of the parents asked the kid's father how the kid felt about it, and the father said that the kid wanted to do it because all the other kids on his travel program (my son plays on a more local travel team while this kid plays on one several hours away) are doing, or have done the same thing.
Do other sports do this? The only thing I can think of is that the father feels it will give his kid an advantage in terms of a college scholarship. Also, for any of you familiar with college sport recruitment, wouldn't this be something the college would consider when evaluating athletes? If a kid is a year older than others in high school, then it may make a difference, but I have to think that once they get to college and can redshirt, or stop growing, or whatever, the difference is not as much.
Not that it concerns me, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. His kid is good, but not what I would consider elite. I also do not know how many full ride scholarships are given out for lacrosse. I have to think that most are partial, unless you are elite. And, if you are elite, that should be apparent to recruiters, whether you are held back a year or not. Furthermore, this family has money - this is not a story about a poor family trying to get their kid a chance for a good education. The amount of money they are spending on training and perhaps a year of private school may be better spent in a college fund. Lacrosse does not have a lucrative pro league, so it is not like they are trying to set this kid up for life. I really do not think he is good enough for that anyway. I think they are setting the kid up for failure, and giving him a real warped sense of priorities. And, no, I am not jealous - my son is a good lacrosse player, but even if he were elite, we would never consider such a thing. I wish nothing but the best for this kid, but feel a little sorry for the expectations that are being placed on him.
Holding back kids in school for athletic reasons has been going on for years, I saw it when I was a kid and I am 60 years old. I was on the other end of that lottery as a kid, Born in September I was sent to private school for two years before entering public school in the second grade. As a result I graduated high school at 17 and attended my first month of college while still 17. I was in school sports competing against the kids that were a year ahead of me in Little League Baseball. I was the president of Little League baseball in our community and president of the parent organization called the Dads Club for several years while my son played. I saw the growth of "select" teams also known as travel teams, or competative teams and the lengths parents would go to have their kids succeed. It was sad. My son played because he enjoyed it, and his friends played and he was pretty good. But even to him it was apparent at some point he would not have a career in sports and enjoyed other things as well. He acted was on Student Council and did well in class.
It was truly interesting watching the dynamics of how these people thought and what their expectations were. Girls Parents at the time seemed to be really into the whole sports idea. It was Title 9 time and colleges had to offer equal numbers of scholarships for men and women. There were average female golfers who shot in the 80's getting full ride offers. Girls softball players were getting a lot of scholarship offers. On the boys side there were not a lot of offers coming and if they came they were for much smaller colleges. I begrudge no one the potential to play a sport that they love into college, but I saw a lot of kids who were decent at a sport, but certainly not some one who would compete at the next level or play beyond that. We had numerous kids accept scholarships to go play a sport at a small out of the way Liberal Art's college with an enrollment of 2,000. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that is bad, but I personally knew these kids and their families and knew the kid could get into a good school and that their family had the financial ability to send them. Their love of the game had them earning limited degrees that would not serve them well for the remainder of their lives. They were forgoing better futures just to play. One kid I knew in particular who was a decent baseball player and had a father who owned a very successful business who lived in a huge house with plenty of ability to send his kid to any school and I were talking one day his senior year. I asked him where he wanted to go to college. His response was anywhere they will let me play ball. He wound up at two Junior Colleges before he went to a small East Texas Baptist College to play baseball for two years and came out of school with a degree in English Literature. Okay but he was a bright kid with good grades and had tremendous potential. He now has a lawn mowing business that I suppose can be good, but I had so many hopes for the kid.
Yeah I guess most of it was and is none of my business, it's just when you calculate the odds of success in sports at the professional level you just have to weigh that against what you could be doing with the rest of your life.
I think where it comes into play for college is (in theory) the student who was held back is now bigger/stronger than those he's graduating with. Whether that equates to more skill, which I would hope would be more important than size/strength, would be debateable.As to the question of whether it would be considered when looking at an athlete for recruitment, scholarships, etc I'm going with a solid no. As long as the athlete meets NCAA eligibility requirements and fits the needs of the program I don't think a coach is going to care whether they repeated a year and/or are one year older at graduation. Red shirting is very common in collegiate athletics, so it's all very familiar to them.
Of course it happens. As @soccerdad72 said, it happens in multiple sports and can happen as early as kindergarten. But why worry about what other parents are doing with their kids. If your child is playing school sports, there's a good chance they'll play with and against kids that are 1-3 years older. Do I think it's "right"? No. But people do a lot of things that I don't think are "right". Not worth worrying about.
I think where it comes into play for college is (in theory) the student who was held back is now bigger/stronger than those he's graduating with. Whether that equates to more skill, which I would hope would be more important than size/strength, would be debateable.
Actually, this is exactly what I was thinking with my original question. Do recruiters consider the potential physical differences between a 19 and 17 year old High School Senior when considering scholarships?
That’s what I was thinking about scholarships.DD plays soccer and is good. She has been to i.d. camps and has been contacted by coaches.
We went to a soccer in college fair last year where the speakers (parents of sports kids, coaches, and recruiters) all reiterated that it's a myth that there are lots of full ride scholarships available for athletes. Very few and far between. Their advice was academics have the best opportunity for scholarships.
That's what DD is focusing on and has decided not to pursue playing in college.
Yeah, we paid like $8K a year for our 2 DDs in softball, the last showcase years. And they were same team so only 1 hotel room. But for gear, extra lessons, gear, team fees, gear, hotels, gear...did I say gear (cleats $110, bats $300+, gloves $150+...each kid).$5k for three kids? You're getting a deal.
Much better than Irish dance, $165 shoes, $3000 dress... I’m glad the sports of choice in our house are soccer and track (especially track).Yeah, we paid like $8K a year for our 2 DDs in softball, the last showcase years. And they were same team so only 1 hotel room. But for gear, extra lessons, gear, team fees, gear, hotels, gear...did I say gear (cleats $110, bats $300+, gloves $150+...each kid).
Actually, this is exactly what I was thinking with my original question. Do recruiters consider the potential physical differences between a 19 and 17 year old High School Senior when considering scholarships?
DD plays soccer and is good. She has been to i.d. camps and has been contacted by coaches.
We went to a soccer in college fair last year where the speakers (parents of sports kids, coaches, and recruiters) all reiterated that it's a myth that there are lots of full ride scholarships available for athletes. Very few and far between. Their advice was academics have the best opportunity for scholarships.
That's what DD is focusing on and has decided not to pursue playing in college.
You do seem quite obsessed with athletes playing down. I was thinking this on one of your other Lacrosse posts but never asked, so here goes...How do you know all these boys are overage? Have you examined all their birth certificates? Except for your son's friend that you know personally, are you absolutely sure there are so many playing in the wrong age.So, current events seem to have demonstrated the measures some parents will go through to get their kids into a college of their choice. I think this is related:
In a previous thread, I mentioned that my son's lacrosse teams have played in tournaments (unfortunately, often organized by High School graduation year) against plenty of teams that seem to have kids that are all a year or so older than traditional/average/expected ages for their school grade. For example, they have played a team full of 7th graders that had 14 year olds on it. Although somewhat annoying for a team that tries to follow the spirit of the age groups, it is unfortunately something we expect. I believe some tournaments even stipulate that a team can have a certain number of older kids. Whatever - that is not the reason for my post.
I had heard of the practice of holding a kid back a year for athletic reasons for some elite lacrosse middle schools. There was an article about this some time ago about schools in Maryland. However, I now know a parent that is going to do this very thing. My son plays on the same rec team as his son. His kid is going to be held back to repeat his 8th grade year. The kid has no problems academically or socially and is average age for his current class - the only reason, as admitted by the parent, will be for athletic considerations. In fact, the parent has said that he will not be allowed to repeat the grade by the public schools, as he has met all requirements for advancement. Therefore, the kid will have to either go to a private school or be home schooled for a year.
One of the parents asked the kid's father how the kid felt about it, and the father said that the kid wanted to do it because all the other kids on his travel program (my son plays on a more local travel team while this kid plays on one several hours away) are doing, or have done the same thing.
Do other sports do this? The only thing I can think of is that the father feels it will give his kid an advantage in terms of a college scholarship. Also, for any of you familiar with college sport recruitment, wouldn't this be something the college would consider when evaluating athletes? If a kid is a year older than others in high school, then it may make a difference, but I have to think that once they get to college and can redshirt, or stop growing, or whatever, the difference is not as much.
Not that it concerns me, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. His kid is good, but not what I would consider elite. I also do not know how many full ride scholarships are given out for lacrosse. I have to think that most are partial, unless you are elite. And, if you are elite, that should be apparent to recruiters, whether you are held back a year or not. Furthermore, this family has money - this is not a story about a poor family trying to get their kid a chance for a good education. The amount of money they are spending on training and perhaps a year of private school may be better spent in a college fund. Lacrosse does not have a lucrative pro league, so it is not like they are trying to set this kid up for life. I really do not think he is good enough for that anyway. I think they are setting the kid up for failure, and giving him a real warped sense of priorities. And, no, I am not jealous - my son is a good lacrosse player, but even if he were elite, we would never consider such a thing. I wish nothing but the best for this kid, but feel a little sorry for the expectations that are being placed on him.