College Athletic Recruitment

Discussion in 'Community Board' started by Park Pirate, Mar 14, 2019 at 11:11 AM.

  1. Hrhpd

    Hrhpd DIS Veteran

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    Oh how I wish I could pay $18. My daughter's sport, WWOS is $45 a day entrance. This year we need 6 days. Uggh
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 8:07 PM
  2. Park Pirate

    Park Pirate Mouseketeer

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    I am not sure what your definition of obsessed is, but starting 1 thread last year (summer) asking how other sports organize their tournaments by age or grade is hardly what I call obsessed. And, if you read my post, I mentioned that this thread was not even about that. I brought it up to say that I am not talking about playing a player down in a tournament, rather holding a kid back in school for athletic purposes. There has been much talk about people doing things to get their kids into college lately, and this situation came up and I thought I would ask about others experience.

    To answer your question though, the lacrosse tournaments that I have been to are generally organized by graduation year, not necessarily age. Heck, I believe somewhere they even have stipulations on how many kids can play down. When there is a competing team from the same area, people know the other kids and what ages/ grades the kids are. The travel lacrosse in our area is unstable and most of the kids know each other. I have also talked to parents on other teams who are quite open about how many older kids they have. And, no, I was not the one who asked. My son even played on a team that had a couple older players per the allowable rules. In most of these cases, I think the playing down is within the rules and therefore there is not much to be obsessed about. I do find this interesting though, as my experience with soccer is that things are run by birth year. So, I have seen it first hand and have heard it directly from parents mouths. But, I am hardly obsessed.

    Edited for a typo
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 9:19 PM
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  4. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    Just FYI, the birth year thing in soccer just started 3-4 years ago. Previous to that it was based on school year calendar.
     
  5. soccerdad72

    soccerdad72 DIS Veteran

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    Ironically, I just heard a rumor (from a club soccer coach) that soccer might be moving back to school year grouping. Not sure how much merit is in it, but who knows?
     
  6. Park Pirate

    Park Pirate Mouseketeer

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    Interesting. I know when they went to the birth year, several classmates from my son's team (born in the late months of the year) had to play on the higher grade team. Perhaps they are seeing negative effects from this or it has hurt participation levels.
     
  7. Lilacs4Me

    Lilacs4Me DIS Veteran

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    I didn't read through everything, but here's our experience -

    DS18 was a big kid. 100th%-ile for height and weight, all his life. When he went to Kindergarten, he was the biggest/tallest kid in his class, and was one of the youngest kids (late June birthday). He played "up" on every football team due to his weight, in every league he was in. He was a o/d-lineman from the start.

    By the time he was in 8th grade, everyone caught up. Small for a football player, he topped out at just about 6 feet tall, and 220 at his biggest. He had college recruiters talking to him because he had good technique and was a strong player even as a small lineman. Then he hurt his shoulder and needed surgery twice (and needs another to fix a fail from the 2nd). End of football career.

    Had we kept him behind a year, everyone would have pretty much grown to their adult height/size anyway, by senior year. The good ones (who don't get hurt) go on to play in college, the mediocre ones don't. End of story.

    I agree with everything you said! We went through the college recruitment process somewhat with DS18 in football, but with the injuries knocking him out of the running after senior year, it just wasn't going to be in the cards.

    The pomp and circumstance our school, and many other schools where I knew kids last year when DS18 graduated, surrounding "signing day" was ridiculous! Parents taking time off work, local media, press conferences....and there wasn't one child I saw that "signed" for anything higher than a DIII or NAIA school. There has only been ONE kid in the 6 years I have has high school kids so far, that made it to a D1 school - and its not one of the big name football colleges.

    My kids have have played almost every sport out there at one time or another in the past 16 years, but have never played a travel sport (football is a different animal, and doesn't require a kid to be on a "travel" team, thank goodness!). I just don't agree with paying the insane amounts of money and travel it takes to get Sally on a travel soccer team, just to be able to "sign" or commit as a senior to Concordia University (sorry Concordia, it's not personal! haha). It's so sad to me that parents fall into the trap of thinking that the only way their mediocre kid will get "noticed" is if they pay thousands of dollars for them to be on a team called "elite". We never bought into that, and honestly other than a few 1-day camps here and there, we didn't do anything to put DS18's name out there...his play spoke for itself and recruiters found HIM.

    All three of my kids play/played lacrosse, and rec teams and the high school team is good enough for them. They can have fun, be part of a team, get exercise, and concentrate on their studies so they can go to a decent (state) college.

    I guess I just don't have aspirations for my kids to be superstar college athletes. I'll just settle for decent humans. :love:
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 10:16 AM
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  8. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    1) It's not just soccer coaches. I understand softball (guessing baseball as well) and other college sports coaches aren't going to HS games. What makes more sense to you... spend $x to go watch one (maybe two) kids play a single game at their HS, or use that same money to go to a showcase with dozens of teams all playing in one area over multiple days?

    Why can't they be both? Why does one eliminate the other? Do I hope my child continues playing a sport he loves when he goes to college? Of course. Do I *HOPE* he gets some scholarship money? Absolutely. But IMO, it's no different than someone HOPING they win the lottery when they buy a ticket. There's a chance sometime over his HS career that he decides he's done playing. Will I look at the last decade+ that he spent playing soccer as a "waste"? No.

    As far as the pomp and circumstance over signing day... who cares? If the parents want to take off work, how does it bother you. If the media is covering it, then it's either a slow news day, or those players were probably among the better ones in the area. Of course the school is going to post on social media, as will the college. That's just PR.

    It really sounds like you have an axe to grind against the "travel" team players and parents. Are there some families that expect all this travel team stuff to be an "investment" for a future college scholarship? Yes. But not all of us are like that. My kids play travel because they enjoy the sport. Travel will generally put you with more dedicated teammates and against tougher competition... therefore making you better.

    My son got selected out of a camp to play in a tournament in Spain a couple years ago. He got selected to the state team this year and they're going to Germany in a couple weeks. Yes, it was expensive. But I know my son enjoyed playing against teams from around the world... including FC Barcelona.

    I get it... "travel" isn't for you, and that's fine. But don't denigrate those of us who do participate simply because you don't like it.
     
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  9. js

    js Been around since before the disboards 90s crash

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    Thank you for this post, you said how I feel. It sounds like some have an issue with travel or college ball but I guess you/child only know when you are experiencing your child playing at that level.

    For anyone that pushes their child to play a sport, I cannot see how that child would still be cooperating in HS with the amount of time needed to sacrifice to stay at a competitive level. A child needs to really love the sport to want to sacrifice their time. My son has always ALWAYS enjoyed playing. No way would my dh and I have paid all that money for lessons, travel, tournaments, etc. if he wasn't interested. AND, if he wasn't interested there would be no way he would be able to compete at a college level. Although both my dh and I are both involved, it really was my dh that was fully invested and ready to help my son with whatever he needed/wanted to do to try to get to the next level. It is also a big sacrifice for parents too. Now that he is in college, my dh has less to do with help but that is fine too. Although now, in the summers, he is away for baseball for a couple of months, so that involves the team fee, living with a host family and now my dh (and sometimes me) have to travel to watch him play, which now includes again transportation, hotels and food but my ds (and us) wouldn't give this up for anything. He loves it.

    For parents that push their child to play a sport in college thinking they will get a full ride, that shouldn't be the reason either but for most that are playing/want to play at the college level, we already know approximately how much a private college usually gives for that particular sport and if specific colleges are looking for specific types of position players. Most travel families are aware of this information. Not all but the realistic ones and for the most part, there are much more realistic ones than not. Both my ds and my dh and I had amazing families and kids on my ds's travel. The fun we all had. My ds (and us) wouldn't give that up for a million dollars. What memories we all have. It usually is just the uninformed that makes blanket guesses.

    Yes, for the most part, tournaments is when you get looked at and on the radar. My ds was just playing in Florida last week and there were Major League scouts there. Sometimes they are at the actual baseball games but they are def. more at a college tournament. I have no aspirations for my ds to play at that level, but parents can *hope* and it's always nice to be on someone's radar. I just want my ds to have these experiences and do well in school. Period. After graduation, he will get his Masters so once he is done, he is done but nothing can take these wonderful experiences away (for both my ds and us).
     
  10. Boardwalk Jedi

    Boardwalk Jedi Mouseketeer

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    1) I know other coaches do it. But I have a huge respect for that don't want to feed the beast of misguided players and parents.

    2) You can be both. But a parent doesn't have to be insane or unintelligent about it.

    3) The problem is when good athletes who are also bright students consider lower level colleges so they can partake in "signing" day.

    4) So your son was "selected" to fork out a boat load of money....

    5) Who is participating? You or your kid?
     
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  11. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    And again I ask, why do you care? Do you pay attention to what they're studying? Do they have family in a certain area? Did they get more academic money at the D3 than they would have athletically at a more "prestigious" school? What college you go to only matters in certain circles. I'm guessing participating in a "signing day" was not the deciding factor on what school they go to. Or did your DH picked his college because he got a "signing day"?

    Yes. And he's has gotten and will get experiences that he could remember for the rest of his life. Do you have a problem with those who spend thousands of dollars to take the family to the same theme park year after year? It's the experiences. And again, why do you care how we spend our money? Last time I checked we didn't start a Go Fund Me or ask you to help pay for it.

    Well, let's see, DW and I take him to practices, games, and tournaments. We talk with other parents (on our team and opposing teams). DW helps in the concession stand. I take pictures at the games (of all the kids) to GIVE to the parents. I'd help him practice if I could keep up with him. In that sense, yes, I'd say we are participating. I know you're trying to say I'm projecting my life on my child's success, but that's not the case. I enjoy watching my kids do things they enjoy. I like watching them overcome a challenge. I like watching them give their best. What's wrong with that?
     
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  12. Boardwalk Jedi

    Boardwalk Jedi Mouseketeer

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    1) You try not to care but when you see kids and parents getting sucked into believing signing with a no-name D3 team is the same as signing for a free education at a well known school, that's just bad for society in my opinion. As for my DH, he had a few offers and I'm not sure his signing was on an actual Signing Day or not...so no he did not pick it for that.

    2) I don't care how you spend your money and am grateful you did not set up a Go Fund Me account for it. But please spare me the "he was selected" crap. "You're kid has been selected" has become the biggest gimmick in youth sports, especially soccer.

    3) Nothing is wrong with being involved and proud. But you're not doing anything I or probably anyone else on this board hasn't done. So stop playing the "don't denigrate those of that do" game. My kids are just as involved in sports as your kids and my opinions comes from what I've seen.
     
  13. Boardwalk Jedi

    Boardwalk Jedi Mouseketeer

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    Not really. As I stated before, we've been there both as athletes and from having our two older ones be recruited. So we're not as uninformed as you think. My kids have done travel, premiere, AAU, etc. We did it so they could up their game, not get a scholarship. Unfortunately, along the way you see too many kids and parents bragging about their "scholarships" which really aren't that.

    I could roll my eyes about how ridiculous it is, but sadly I see it from another angle. I work in an inner city school system where the natural athletic ability is stunning. But these kids will never be able to afford the pay-to-play routine that youth sports have become. I can drive by a city park and see kids doing super creative soccer skills that no academy could ever teach. I honestly, believe the quality of certain sports has become less impressive since money became the sole driver of who plays on the top level.
     
  14. tex1989

    tex1989 Mouseketeer

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    Fortunatly I got to see the good side as well. We had some football players go to top schools (University of Texas, Wisconsin, Rice) on scholarship. We had another walk onto the University of Houston baseball team got a scholarship after one year and got drafted after his Junior year. He was a level headed kid and signed for $180k plus the team agreed to pay for the remainder of his college. He returned each fall for two years and finished his degree. After 4 years he realized it was not in the cards to play baseball anymore but had finished his degree and wound up with a good job and money in the bank as he has saved the signing bonus.

    I was offered several scholarships out of high school in 1977 to either go debate for some schools and in football to go play for some schools. None of which I thought would give me an education that would lead to a good job. So I took a academic scholarship and went to a large state school and have never regreted the decision.
     
  15. mnrose

    mnrose Queen of all she surveys

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    I listened to a presentation by our high school's athletic director who told parents of 9th grade athletes...BE A STUDENT first. The average "merit" scholarship is almost twice as much as the average "athletic" scholarship. If you want help paying for college, be a good student. Odds are MUCH better. Interesting.
     
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  16. tex1989

    tex1989 Mouseketeer

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    And this is where I insisted that every kid I ever coached in Little League baseball, youth basketball, and youth lacrosse as well as their parents had to listen to my advice, suggestion. Look up the number of kids within 5 years of your age group that there are playing a particular sport. Now look at the number of major league/ professional teams in the sport and how many players are on each team. What percentage of kids that start in sports wind up playing for a living? Not trying to discourage anyone, but rather to point out that you need a good education to be able to calculate the number, and you need to work your butt off if you think you have what it takes to make it. Never got any negative feedback as I delivered that message and had a lot of kids come back to me with the number.
     
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  17. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon DIS Veteran

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    So you really think that by the time they're "signing" they still believe they're getting a full ride? You don't think they spent any time talking to coaches or admissions officers by that point who would have set them straight?

    OK, let's see... for the trip he got to go on from the camp, I think that year there were seven camps across the eastern part of the country. Figure they probably had 20-30 kids in his age group at each camp. So I'll say 25. So that's 175 kids in his age group. I doubt (could be wrong) that they sent invitations to go to Spain to all 175. Even if they sent the invitation to 100, he still would have been "selected". He did the same camp the previous year and didn't get "selected". Is there another word you'd rather I use? Oh, FWIW, I think ~30 kids ended up going on the trip.

    As we enter the recruiting world and have our emails put in with registration for tournaments and leagues, I understand "being selected" doesn't really mean much. And I know my child isn't going to be the next Pulisic.

    Well, considering the "denigrate" line was in response to someone else, I again don't see why you should have a problem with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 12:09 PM
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  18. lovin'fl

    lovin'fl DIS Veteran

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    Wow, some of this has gotten off track and I am not sure I am understanding some posts. My DDs 'signed' to play D3 softball and got no athletic money. They played on a travel team. Colleges recruited at the showcase tourneys and not at HS games. If a coach is good, though, they will know all HS players and recruit good ones who can't afford a travel team. But we had players in our circle who couldn't afford and they were sponsored to play at showcases also they had other ways to get known by college coaches. ANd I believe the big money sports, like football and basketball, coaches do recruit at HS...I was just watching QB1 with DH and it shows this (though many parents put their kids at specific HS for this purpose and even some private who likely give scholarships to those who can't afford). We could talk about how some D1 college athletes don't truly qualify academically yet there they are playing for UNC or Duke, say.

    As far as my DDs 'signing' for D3. It was more a proud moment for their HS coach. And us. I was aware it was not a true signing and no big deal but they earned even that little moment in the sun (with a couple other friends, one soccer and one lacrosse). Their D3 school is a nice private school in PA and they are getting a great education. One will be a teacher and other will be an accountant. The accountant one is also doing a volunteer firefighter and EMT program and has found a family through that. Teacher DD is involved, and good at, special needs based educating and involved with autism programs and in a volunteer program where she works with kids on campus (of moms who go to college there and live on campus in program to help single moms). They were tired of playing softball and wanted to get involved with these other things. Their choice to quit and I supported that.

    As for all the time and work put in, by them and us (I agree with Sam in how much parents put in)....for them to just play D3. Well it gave them a family, at travel ball and at college. They went to college with a group already (one other girl on their travel team went there too). It's a sisterhood. Playing also teaches how to be a team player. Gives them confidence. Kept them busy in HS so they weren't running around drinking and messing with boys. Taught them commitment. How to work hard to earn something (starting spot wasn't handed to them). It was also time spent together as we were there on there weekends at the tourneys with them and in hotels. So many good things...I think everyone can agree on that. I don't regret all the time and money put in. They got a good life experience out of it. They are on their way to a successful happy adulthood. We did our job as parents. Can't ask for more than that. And to stay in tune with the actual intent of this thread...we did our job as parents without lying, cheating or buying our way like these celebs did. I guess we didn't feel the need to buy them a spot at a prestigious school or on a D1 team or what have you (not that we could have afforded to). The goal for us was having our kids be productive self sufficient members of society...and happy. I think these celebs put happy as their primary goal and at all costs (Veruca Salts).
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 10:25 AM
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  19. Pea-n-Me

    Pea-n-Me DIS Veteran

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    Our experience with DS mirrors these, mostly. Last night I was on a flight with several different D3 sports teams, including my son's (which wasn't planned; I guess whoever booked the team's flights likes a bargain, too!) while I was reading some of these posts. I felt sad looking at how nice these fine athletes looked, how well-behaved they were, and how committed I know they are, knowing that some are disparaging their choices; but proud of them, on the other hand, as they are, often with great difficulty, managing to keep many balls in the air (pun intended) simply for making themselves, their schools and their families proud. I believe these hard fought skills and relationships will transfer very well into the real world when they graduate, in whatever fields they choose.

    It is a privilege to be part of such a special cameraderie in college, without question. My DS loves it, and has always loved playing and being part of a team. Every year we asked him if he still wanted to play and every year he looked at us like we had three heads even asking the question. He is another who played where he was supposed to play without any holding back or whatever. There was no need for that, and it wasn't something I saw anyone I know do. Nor did I ever see any "signings" for D3, just for D1 and D2.

    Some think that D3 teams aren't worth much. Let me tell you, these athletes work super hard not only on keeping themselves in shape with nutrition and workouts, but they must keep up their grades, and volunteerism is required by the NCAA, as well, so they are working very hard, year round, for little to no financial incentive in many cases. They do it for the love of the game and for the benefits that come with being part of a team. As lovin'fl has said, it's hard to party all night and think you're going to get up the next day and be able to perform well. Naturally, some are able to party a bit. But there is an incentive there that comes with everyone being in the best shape they can for the good of the team, and most want to adhere to that, or they wouldn't last long on the team. (At least in DS's team's case.) Captains keep players in line, everything must go through them, and coaches continually evaluate players even when they get to the team, so staying on a team is never guaranteed, it's something that has to be earned. This is ongoing. From observing my DS's behavior, players do not want to disappoint or do what they're not supposed to do. On a road trip we are able to go out with DS a bit, for instance, but the entire time he is cognizant of what time he had to be back in order to make curfew. The difference in how DS "is" on vacation with just us, and how he "is" on a tournament trip with his team, is quite different, even though many families come down to watch games and such. Obligations to the team come first, as it should be. But I see a lot of teams coming off the fields and around our same areas, and they almost always look the same - exhausted, but proud, and mostly pretty happy (with the exception, maybe, of after a tough loss).
     
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  20. Boardwalk Jedi

    Boardwalk Jedi Mouseketeer

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    I think I am more disparaging the system than I am individual choices. As for it being privilege/camraderie...not always. Talk to more people who have been on college teams. The forced camaraderie can be draining. Even DH who obviously received some good perks and a quality education sees a LOT of flaws in the system. While I don't have an issue with D3 sports, I think it's deceptive and misleading when soccer academies advertise their athletes being "highly recruited" to younger parents who believe the kids are getting scholarships (especially when some of them are glorified high schools). I love ya Pea, but the rose-colored glasses are exactly what sucks parents in.
     
  21. Pea-n-Me

    Pea-n-Me DIS Veteran

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    I guess we just have a difference of opinion and experience here, and that's ok. IME people who are unhappy on teams leave them. I think it would be unrealistic to think that everyone is going to have a great experience - of course not! But for those who stick around and love it, it can be a really great thing, and yes, a privilege. We know plenty of people who wanted to play in college, but for one reason or another, weren't able to, and for some of these people it's been devastating. (Yes, an actual word used by people we know very well.)

    When things work out just right, it can be a very special thing.

    ETA I've met people from all over the country who are involved in college sports (at varying levels) who feel the same way. Literally everywhere I go. The other night we were leaving a venue when a lady overheard my son saying he had to get back to make curfew. She asked us about it and told us her son had played in college (same sport) and they all missed it very much, that it was a great experience, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 2:41 PM

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