CNN & FOX-Al-Zarqawi killed

[wvrevy]

TeeJay - I believe you are right that we will never be viewed as more than the lesser of evils. But I think you under-estimate the passion with which these people approach their religion. Of course all of them are not fanatics, and I'm not trying to imply that. But I do believe that their devotion to their religion is something that is greatly misunderstood here in the western world. So, when a publicly devout "christian" president is waging war in their country...well, can you not see how they might look at it with skepticism when told that it is supposedly for their own good?

Iraq, for all intents and purposes, is really three seperate states that were held together only by the iron fist of a tyrant. Now that the tyrant is gone, expecting them to peacefully coexist is simply naive. It has never happened before, so what makes anyone think that it will happen now?

As to Cardaway's point, I think it was that there are many places on this planet - particularly in Africa - that are in a lot worse shape than Iraq was, even before the invasion. If we are going to "spread freedom and democracy while fighting tyrany", we should be looking there, not to the oil-rich middle east. I'm all for using the military to stop genocide...so why aren't we doing that?

 

[cardaway]

we would do that because....?

Because people might actually be in favor of taking out the other bad guys responsible for much worse cases of genocide. I saw a list of people like that before the current "war" in Iraq and Hussein wasn't even in the top five.

The picking of Iraq was pretty questionable to say the least if people are going to say were are there to "free" Iraq.

 

[kimszath]

My son and I walked into a coin shop in town the other day, owned and operated by an 80-something gentleman with silver-white hair. As we chatted, I mentioned that I had just retired last summer from the Air Force. He, too, had done his tour in the armed forces. Back in "The Great War," he was a glider pilot. I'm not sure if he cared what my political affiliation was, but he was quick to point out that, even though he was a democrat, he believes in this President, and supports him with every breath in his body. He believes that history will look back on George W. Bush as one of our finest Presidents, because he had the backbone to go after the terrorists where they sit. He also said, "Do you know that what Bush is doing right now will probably ultimately save your son's life? (My son is 7.) We've got to stop these terrorists now, on their own soil, or they'll be running rampant over here inside of 10 years. We'll be afraid to take a bus, or go shopping at a mall... that's what they want. To scare us to death and change our way of life." Like it or not, I agree with this man--every singe word. And if you think the President didn't take the right action--that he should have just sat on his hands and waited for one of Saddam's goons to detonate a dirty bomb or nuclear explosive on the soil of the U.S. or our allies--you're living in a fantasyland. Given the intelligence he had at the time (and you can use your 20/20 hindsight all you want--he didn't have that), he had to act. If he hadn't, and something HAD happened, everybody and their brother would be pointing their fingers at him saying, "How could you NOT DO SOMETHING??? We have the greatest military force in the world!" How long do you sit on information like that? And whether they ever find WMD or not in Iraq, it's a breeding ground for terrorists, and I'd much rather see us fighting them over there than fighing them on American soil. Would you rather live like the Israelis do, every day wondering if the guy getting on your bus means to kill you and everyone else onboard? If you're going to make it home from the market on the corner because some suicide bomber decided today was the day he'd meet his virgins in heaven? Like him or not, George W. Bush is a decent man with the balls to go after the terrorists. God Bless our President and our military men and women.

 

[Teejay32]

TeeJay - I believe you are right that we will never be viewed as more than the lesser of evils. But I think you under-estimate the passion with which these people approach their religion. Of course all of them are not fanatics, and I'm not trying to imply that. But I do believe that their devotion to their religion is something that is greatly misunderstood here in the western world. So, when a publicly devout "christian" president is waging war in their country...well, can you not see how they might look at it with skepticism when told that it is supposedly for their own good?

yes, I can see that.

Iraq, for all intents and purposes, is really three seperate states that were held together only by the iron fist of a tyrant. Now that the tyrant is gone, expecting them to peacefully coexist is simply naive. It has never happened before, so what makes anyone think that it will happen now?

I've seen that too, and I never know what to say about it. If the Kurds declare independence, other countries will be upset - this is not a good enough reason to oppose it. But they will probably be inviting other wars by doing it, so coexisting is at least worth a try. That's my incomplete opinion.

As to Cardaway's point, I think it was that there are many places on this planet - particularly in Africa - that are in a lot worse shape than Iraq was, even before the invasion. If we are going to "spread freedom and democracy while fighting tyrany", we should be looking there, not to the oil-rich middle east. I'm all for using the military to stop genocide...so why aren't we doing that?

because no matter what lofty ideas you put in front of it it's the same thing, fighting armed groups who want to kill this or that people for this or that reason....why not Iraq? We've been dealing with Iraq militarily for about two decades, let's try to fix the place.

 

[JennyMominRI]

My son and I walked into a coin shop in town the other day, owned and operated by an 80-something gentleman with silver-white hair. As we chatted, I mentioned that I had just retired last summer from the Air Force. He, too, had done his tour in the armed forces. Back in "The Great War," he was a glider pilot. I'm not sure if he cared what my political affiliation was, but he was quick to point out that, even though he was a democrat, he believes in this President, and supports him with every breath in his body. He believes that history will look back on George W. Bush as one of our finest Presidents, because he had the backbone to go after the terrorists where they sit. He also said, "Do you know that what Bush is doing right now will probably ultimately save your son's life? (My son is 7.) We've got to stop these terrorists now, on their own soil, or they'll be running rampant over here inside of 10 years. We'll be afraid to take a bus, or go shopping at a mall... that's what they want. To scare us to death and change our way of life." Like it or not, I agree with this man--every singe word. And if you think the President didn't take the right action--that he should have just sat on his hands and waited for one of Saddam's goons to detonate a dirty bomb or nuclear explosive on the soil of the U.S. or our allies--you're living in a fantasyland. Given the intelligence he had at the time (and you can use your 20/20 hindsight all you want--he didn't have that), he had to act. If he hadn't, and something HAD happened, everybody and their brother would be pointing their fingers at him saying, "How could you NOT DO SOMETHING??? We have the greatest military force in the world!" How long do you sit on information like that? And whether they ever find WMD or not in Iraq, it's a breeding ground for terrorists, and I'd much rather see us fighting them over there than fighing them on American soil. Would you rather live like the Israelis do, every day wondering if the guy getting on your bus means to kill you and everyone else onboard? If you're going to make it home from the market on the corner because some suicide bomber decided today was the day he'd meet his virgins in heaven? Like him or not, George W. Bush is a decent man with the balls to go after the terrorists. God Bless our President and our military men and women.

That's fine and dandy and absolutely believe ths man sad this..I'm sure he is not the only decorated miltary member to say so..On the flip side there our tons to say the opposite.. My Mothers first husband is a 20+ year Army veteran who worked his way up from an E 1 to a warrant officer... He served in the Korean war and spent many years in Germany when the Berlin wall was being built and maintaned. He beleves the opposite...You should here he and my Brother (his son,who is adamantly Pro-Bush and Pro-Iraq).
My point is not to discount what you say but to point out that there are many who say the opposite..Wvrevy is a Veteran and I am a Gulf War Era veteran Marine who stronly disagrees with the war in Iraq, although I do agree with the actions in Afghanstan ..I believe Bush will be remembered as a disgrace not just to the US office of the Presidency,but to thiests everywhere

 

[kimszath]

That's fine and dandy and absolutely believe ths man sad this..I'm sure he is not the only decorated miltary member to say so..On the flip side there our tons to say the opposite.. My Mothers first husband is a 20+ year Army veteran who worked his way up from an E 1 to a warrant officer... He served in the Korean war and spent many years in Germany when the Berlin wall was being built and maintaned. He beleves the opposite...You should here he and my Brother (his son,who is adamantly Pro-Bush and Pro-Iraq).
My point is not to discount what you say but to point out that there are many who say the opposite..Wvrevy is a Veteran and I am a Gulf War Era veteran Marine who stronly disagrees with the war in Iraq, although I do agree with the actions in Afghanstan ..I believe Bush will be remembered as a disgrace not just to the US office of the Presidency,but to thiests everywhere

And that's great--we're all entitled to our opinions. I've done everything asked of me during my 21 years as a military flyer, and have always tried to believe in my Commander in Chief, even when I was unhappy with the man in office. I've done the nation-building missions, the relief missions, the toilet-paper runs, and more than my share of flying into and out of the Middle East during the Gulf War and Enduring Freedom. I've flown food and I've flown bombs. I've flown the wounded, and I've flown repatriation missions into Dover. I haven't always liked what I was doing, but I happen to believe in this mission--maybe going into Iraq was initially based on bad intel, but we're there, and we'll finish the job (I pray) before we leave. I have two cousins and a friend in Iraq right now--all just got there for 120-day rotations. My father is retired Navy, and I know quite a few vets. I only know ONE who thinks we're wrong to be over there. Of course, I know there are MANY who agree with you, as well. Thank God and our veterans for freedom of speech.

 

[Charade]

That Bush, for all his bluster, has not made anyone any more safe than they were before 9/11.

Do you have actual proof or are you just guessing?

I know for a fact that the nuke plants I go to on occasion have increased and changed security procedures since 9-11.

Airline travel has significantly changed since 9-11. Are there still holes in the fence? Sure but it's got less than it did before 9-11.

Are there still ways to lessen the ability of a terrorist to attack? Sure, but to say we are no safer than we were before 9-11 is categorically false.

 

[Saxsoon]

My airport never had a strong security, but we got a huge increase in security after 9/11. We are a small city but I think the Air Force base is one of the largest in the nation, so they wanted to crack down more.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

Do you have actual proof or are you just guessing?

I know for a fact that the nuke plants I go to on occasion have increased and changed security procedures since 9-11.

Airline travel has significantly changed since 9-11. Are there still holes in the fence? Sure but it's got less than it did before 9-11.

Are there still ways to lessen the ability of a terrorist to attack? Sure, but to say we are no safer than we were before 9-11 is categorically false.

I agree. I for one feel much safer since 9-11.
My dear brother has been a commercial airline pilot for almost a decade. According to him, airline travel is much safer than it was before the attacks.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

Ok, attention everyone. This much bashing can't be good for your complexion.

Here is a joke I received from a friend:

When Abu al-Zarqawi died, George Washington met him at the Pearly Gates. He slapped him across the face and yelled, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"

Patrick Henry approached, punched him in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed!"

James Madison followed, kicked him in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"

Thomas Jefferson was next, beat al-Zarqawi with a long cane and snarled "It was Evil men like you who inspired me to write the Declaration of Independence."

The beatings and thrashings continued as George Mason, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans unleashed their anger on the terrorist Leader.

As al-Zarqawi lay bleeding and in pain, an Angel appeared.

Al-Zarqawi wept and said, "This is not what you promised me."

The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you in Heaven. What did you think I said?"

 

[Charade]

 

[kimszath]

MMGal--I love that one!!!

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

Thanks!
I was just trying to lighten things up a bit!

 

[wvrevy]

To kimszath - Your coin shop dealer is obviously as clueless about the situation in the middle east - and as incapable of discerning the difference between Afghanistan (which I and most progressives supported) and Iraq - as the Bush administration. You honestly buy that "we fight them there so they can't fight us here" nonsense? Just how many people do you think it would take to pull off another attack in this country? You think all of them are tied up right now? Look what just two men with a truckload of fertilizer did in Oklahoma City. You think those two rednecks were smarter than the terrorists? I hate to disillusion you, but what Shrub and company are doing may darn well endanger your child some day by causing even more hatred towards the US.

To the "history will vindicate him" crowd - Based on what? Blind faith? We still haven't finished the first war this president started. The Taliban still launches attacks practically daily against American troops in Afghanistan. You remember the Taliban, right? The people allied with the organization that ACTUALLY ATTACKED US?!? The only thing Shrub will go down in history as is the worst president of the last 100 years, and quite possibly the worst ever. He will certainly go down as the first president ever to consider himself completely above the law, and the first to launch an attack on a nation that neither attacked us nor one of our allies. And you're "proud" of that?

To the "we're safer" crowd - How so? Our ports are still unsecured. Air travel is still not that safe (other than from shoe bombers...and then only because a fellow passenger was alert enough to spot the problem). Oh, sure...there are a few more guards at security. But did they just roll back the rules about what can be carried on an airplane, including hatchets and knives of a certain length? So, just how has Shrub made us so much safer since 9/11? By creating a political tool in the form of a "terror alert system", then crying wolf so many times leading up to election day that nobody bothers to listen to it any more? Give me a break.