CMs saying Merry Christmas?

[Angel1]

WOW! I'm a conservative CHristian and you are Jewish and we have this in common! This happens all the time to my children too! We prefer to focus on Christ during Christmas, so we don't do anything Santa-ish if you will. My children don't seem to know what to say when they are asked what Santa will bring them. I usually jump in and say, "What do you want for Christmas" so my child will understand better how to answer. I used to say "We don't believe in Santa" but DH said even with a sweet smile, it seemed rude. I was not trying to be rude; I just wanted to help my children out of an uncomfortable situation.

Please don't let your kid be the one to announce to the kindergarten class that there's no such thing as Santa, though, OK? We had a kid like that in DD#2s class. I could have wrung that kid's neck.

 

[crisi]

I don't believe I ever said I was "shocked." Surprised, bemused, but very little shocks me ....

Yes, again, I know the ancient origins of Christmas, but you must realize that general American society would have no knowledge of these older pagan rituals and celebrations if they were not co-opted by Christianity. It is ONLY because of Christianity that 99% of us know anything about such rituals. Some of the observances STEM FROM pagan rituals, but Christianity swallowed them up, transformed them, "Christianized" them, and again I submit that only a VERY small minority of Americans would have trees inside their houses in winter and exchange gifts near the time of the winter solstice were it not for Christianity. How many other pagan rituals does the majority of America celebrate that are NOT somehow related to Christianity? I'm not arguing here, I'm just pointing out that MOST secular people who have the trappings of Christmas are not doing so because of their Celt or Wiccan heritage or beliefs. How many among us would have any idea about the observance of Samhain? VERY, VERY FEW, if it did not become transformed into Halloween.

Merry Christmas!


-- Eric

I don't know if you can say that. If there were no Christ, we would be celebrating a different holiday mid-year. Americans being predominantly European in culture, its likely that holiday (Mithrasmas?) would include the trappings of previous beliefs. We were decorating our homes with evergreen and holly, having feasts and exchanging gifts with each other in some form or another (allowing regional differences) at this time of year for hundreds if not thousands of years before Christ, and I see no reason we would have changed had their been no Christianity. Where traditions are strong enough, they remain, even if the motivations and symbols behind those traditions change to fit the times.

 

[blueroses]

If people are wishing you a Merry Christmas to be mean and cruel to you, I can understand your feelings. But if their intent is send you good wishes, there's no ill intent, and I would simply wish them well and go on my way.

That's pretty much what I said:

I don't get upset when people wish me a "Merry Christmas" because I know they do it with genuine good wishes to me (except Bill O'Reilly of course!)

 

[jarestel]

That's pretty much what I said:

I guess your sadness comment was what I was referring to. If someone is wishing me well, it doesn't make me sad, no matter if I share their beliefs or not.

 

[tiberius]

MERRY CHRISTMAS

HAPPY HANUKKAH

or well wishes for whatever you may choose to celebrate

Meanwhile, I'll be celebrating Christmas (primarily religious and secondarily secular).

 

[peter11435]

So, Who wants cake.

 

[DrTomorrow]

I don't know if you can say that. If there were no Christ, we would be celebrating a different holiday mid-year. Americans being predominantly European in culture, its likely that holiday (Mithrasmas?) would include the trappings of previous beliefs. We were decorating our homes with evergreen and holly, having feasts and exchanging gifts with each other in some form or another (allowing regional differences) at this time of year for hundreds if not thousands of years before Christ, and I see no reason we would have changed had their been no Christianity. Where traditions are strong enough, they remain, even if the motivations and symbols behind those traditions change to fit the times.

Nicely put - you beat me to it. There's a lot more remaining of the "original, co-opted" holidays (trees, holly, feast, gifts and yule logs at Winter Solstice; eggs, bunnies, flowers at Spring Equinox) than there is of the Christian variety (Christmas & Easter).

And what about Virgin Moble's solution: Happy Christmahanukwanzakaa?

Anyway, Happy Winter Solstice (my pref), Merry Christmas (national holiday) and Happy Holidays to all.

And, with a giant , let me be the first to christen (heh) a new DIS acronym: MVHHP !!!

Be well!

 

[zachnlucy]

I think the problem with the direction of this thread is ... people just overthink too much. Too much analyzing, too much deciphering.

We're Christians. We sing "Happy Birthday to Jesus" on Christmas morning before opening the presents under our pagan tree. I send Channakkuh cards to our Jewish friends. I also never wish them a Merry Christmas because I know they're Jewish. I don't understand why so many things today have to be so polarized.

 

[Kay1]

I don't care whether they say Merry Christmas or not and think the entire issue is just plain silly.

 

[crisi]

I think some people have some legitimate concerns. For instance, we aren't Christian, but we do celebrate Christmas. Tree and Santa consumerism and family time sort of stuff. But my kids, in a public school have been heavily engaged in "holiday" activites, almost all that START with the assumption that the kids celebrate Christmas in the secular "tree and Santa" fashion. Now kindergarteners writing notes to Santa was helpful to this mom, but if you aren't a Santa family (either because you are not Christian and don't keep Christmas or because you are Christian and choose to focus on the non-Santa part of it) its hard to explain to kindergarteners why they are the only kid in class without an ornament to bring in on share day. So schools have started to try and take some of the "cultural defaults" out - stop assuming that just because they are the default, doesn't mean every kid in the class will have reference. And it isn't even a religion thing to the schools (that all went long ago for most public schools) - its a sensitivity to family traditions. That's translated into a "trying to stop Christmas" (like you could, Christmas is a freight train in this country) or being hostile to Christians (it isn't hostile to anyone to choose not to talk about Santa in a room where he doesn't visit everyone and where you risk some first grader blurting out the "truth" to a bunch of kids who still believe and end up with angry parents).

But, in general people who get offended by Merry Christmas and people who use the words Merry Christmas to offend both need to get a grip.

 

[grumpymakesmehappy]

From here in Tennessee, we wish you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!

 

[Principessa1284]

bottom line? Disney is a private company, so they can say whatever they want. (well, not anything.. but you know what i mean.) If they were govenment funded or sponsered, it would be a different story. So, Merry Christmas, Happy Chaunakah, Merry Kwanza, Happy Holidays, and a Happy New Year!!!

 

[CleveRocks]

I don't know if you can say that. If there were no Christ, we would be celebrating a different holiday mid-year. Americans being predominantly European in culture, its likely that holiday (Mithrasmas?) would include the trappings of previous beliefs. We were decorating our homes with evergreen and holly, having feasts and exchanging gifts with each other in some form or another (allowing regional differences) at this time of year for hundreds if not thousands of years before Christ, and I see no reason we would have changed had their been no Christianity. Where traditions are strong enough, they remain, even if the motivations and symbols behind those traditions change to fit the times.

Excellent points, Crisi! I never thought of it that way. Thanks for the insight.

-- Eric

 

[snowbunny]

It doesn't change the point of the post, so I saw no need to ramble on more than normal

Well, yes it does. You seemed to be trying to make the point that the majority rules, which is perfectly fine, so everyone else needs to just get with the program or get over it.

The sad part is that although I am not a Christian (yes, I am one of those people) I've always loved Christmas. But Christmas wielded as a blunt instrument by culture-war fanatics really ruins the spirit of it.

 

[mommyoeo]

Please don't let your kid be the one to announce to the kindergarten class that there's no such thing as Santa, though, OK? We had a kid like that in DD#2s class. I could have wrung that kid's neck.

I make no guarantees! Try as I might, my DD4 is a loose cannon, so it's a good thing we're far from Jersey! I tried to re-explain that to her this week (not to tell about Santa), but she says what she thinks when she's out of my site-- a trait I'm usually very proud of. Of course, if your kids are in public school, probably many of them from other religions say the same thing. They know because Santa has never visited them before. Thanks to this thread, I don't have to worry about my DD4 being the odd-ball about Santa, at least.

 

[CleveRocks]

Please don't let your kid be the one to announce to the kindergarten class that there's no such thing as Santa, though, OK? We had a kid like that in DD#2s class. I could have wrung that kid's neck.

I couldn't agree with you more. I've always made sure my precocious, highly verbal kindergartener doesn't "out" Santa to any of his classmates and playmates. I tell him that just because we don't believe Santa brings him presents doesn't mean that other kids shouldn't believe it, that they enjoy believing it and he'd better not do ANYTHING to get in their way of enjoying it. I hope the other parents of kids in his class feel the same way. We live in an ethnically diverse suburban community, and I'm figuring that there are 2 Jews, 2 Muslims, 2 Sikhs, and 1 or 2 Buddhists (and who knows how many with no religious background) in his class of 21 kids. Kinda like a little multi-cultural Noah's Ark ....

-- Eric

 

[maxiesmom]

Don't believe everything you hear on tv. The store I work for was named as one that told their employees not to say Merry Christmas. Not true!! We even have music on our in-store system with a Christian message. Of course when the reporter was notified that they were in error nothing was said. I think newspeople like to get us all stirred up over nothing.

By the way, Merry Christmas!!

 

[nbodyhome]

I am tired of the PC stuff, like Christmas trees being called "holiday trees". If some stores and such don't want to use the term Christmas, then maybe people shouldn't buy their Christmas gifts there.

That said, I don't have a problem with the term happy holidays as well - because it encompasses the whole season, not just Christmas. But that doesn't mean I want Disney to rename their parade the "Very Merry Holiday Party", which I would be surprised if they didn't at some point. Trees are for the Christmas holiday, Menorahs are for the Jewish Holiday - anbd I don't want someone renaming them to be PC.

Denise

 

[ksoehrlein]

I think some people have some legitimate concerns. For instance, we aren't Christian, but we do celebrate Christmas. Tree and Santa consumerism and family time sort of stuff. But my kids, in a public school have been heavily engaged in "holiday" activites, almost all that START with the assumption that the kids celebrate Christmas in the secular "tree and Santa" fashion. Now kindergarteners writing notes to Santa was helpful to this mom, but if you aren't a Santa family (either because you are not Christian and don't keep Christmas or because you are Christian and choose to focus on the non-Santa part of it) its hard to explain to kindergarteners why they are the only kid in class without an ornament to bring in on share day. So schools have started to try and take some of the "cultural defaults" out - stop assuming that just because they are the default, doesn't mean every kid in the class will have reference. And it isn't even a religion thing to the schools (that all went long ago for most public schools) - its a sensitivity to family traditions. That's translated into a "trying to stop Christmas" (like you could, Christmas is a freight train in this country) or being hostile to Christians (it isn't hostile to anyone to choose not to talk about Santa in a room where he doesn't visit everyone and where you risk some first grader blurting out the "truth" to a bunch of kids who still believe and end up with angry parents).

But, in general people who get offended by Merry Christmas and people who use the words Merry Christmas to offend both need to get a grip.

Your post reminds me of what is going on in DD's Kindergarten class. There's one boy who, in her words, "doesn't celebrate any holidays except for Halloween, so he gets to play by himself whenever we talk about the holidays." I asked her if they talk about Hannukah, Kwanzaa, or even Ramadan (in case that inclusion would allow this boy to participate in "holiday" activities), but she said, "No, just Christmas." I'm pretty shocked. Yes, we are in Alabama, where the population is primarily Baptist or Methodist, but still. This is a public school and there is a student who is having part of his school day wasted every day this month because there is classroom discussion about a celebration which his family does not participate in. I feel very sad for this innocent 5yo, who was simply born into a family that does not celebrate Christmas.

Whenever I'm unsure if it crosses a line between church and state, I try to imagine what I would feel it the holiday/culture/religious discussion was one in which we did not participate. For example, if all the children in DD's class were to make a menorrah for a class project and we were the only Gentiles in town, how would we feel? (Yeah, I'm a bleeding heart.)

On another note: When I was a CM at TDS, I did say "Happy Holidays" because we were located in a very diverse area. We were to say it from Black Friday to Dec. 31 (because New Year's Day is a holiday too). I slipped once Christmas Eve, wishing a mother and daughter a "Merry Christmas," and they jumped down my throat about how they celebrate Hannukah. At the time, I thought it was safe because who else shops on Dec. 24 besides people shopping for last-minute Christmas gifts? (It was a year when Hannukah was already over by the 24th.) Guess I shouldn't have assumed. Never again.

Anyway, if the OP encountered lots of "Happy Holidays," it may have been from other "once-bitten-twice-shy" CMs. To change your standard December greeting, uttered 500 times a day, just for the nights of MMVCP is not as easy as it sounds. CMs try so hard to make everyone happy, they're bound to fail somewhere. Like a previous poster, I think it best to fail on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion.

 

[Nancyg56]

Disney is full of Christmas stuff, so I doubt very much they are anti-Christmas.

I personally do not think the "Happy Holidays" thing is a "PC" issue at all. It's an issue of being sensitive to religious and cultural differences. And what's wrong with that? I'm very glad I remembered to say Happy Holidays to my Jewish hair stylist instead of Merry Christmas. I think it is a kind and sensitive thing.

I agree. This is a lovely season with plenty of well wishes for all. I tend to wish a Happy Holiday to people this time of year if I am not sure of their religion. If I know, them I wish them the appropriate greeting. IMHO it is simply courteous. I don't worry what anyone says.