Class-action Lawsuit Filed Over Changes to Disney’s Disability Access Service (DAS)

[OurBigTrip]

Actually, based on DH's experience, the CMs end up asking a lot of details, including asking for medical information and it becomes very tiring and time consuming. No, they shouldn't be doing that, but the reality is that they do.

Why should those who need accommodation have to pay extra money just to be properly accommodated and that is precisely what is happening now.

And history has proven that if they eliminate Lightning Lanes and went back to the old DAS system, the system would not be overwhelmed, sorry, but actual real experience taught us that.

1. If they are in fact asking for details, then I would ask for a lead or other type supervisor/manager.

2. No, what's happening now is that people who don't want to use the alternate accommodations are choosing to pay for LLs, which is their right, just like anyone else.

3. What worked five years ago is irrelevant to what would work now. GAC used to work too, until it didn't, and Disney was able to prove that in court (very convincingly), and plaintiffs lost their lawsuit.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Which is precisely why I also mentioned Cedar Fair and Six Flags parks, who have much longer wait times, but the reality is that Dollywood and Silver Dollar City actually have a lot of people go through, but also have very efficient operations. Basically they have designed and managed their parks to ensure lower wait times through various means, including have tons of entertainment, which Disney has not done as of late, in fact if anything, Disney is doing things to increase wait times.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_rankings

Those parks don’t belong in the same conversation as Disney attendance-wise.

Even Universal, which is closer, generally caters to a different clientele (though clearly there is some overlap) given the type of rides (motion simulators plus big coasters) that dominate those parks.

This has been discussed ad nauseam and consensus on the board seems to be that they are not comparable. If your lived experience makes you believe something different I don’t know what else to say.

 

[OurBigTrip]

While Disney could, in theory, get rid of DAS so long as they have other accommodations for those who can't wait in a long line due to their disability, I think the step they would take before that would be to limit, in some way, how many times it can be used.

For example, if their data shows that the typical non-DAS, non-LL guest gets on six rides per day at MK, limiting DAS use to six times per day.

 

[voxparse]

Like others have said, I can't imagine a class action on this being successful. Disney has not violated the ADA, in most cases they go above and beyond. That said, I do wish Disney would use their significant technology to develop better experiences around the entire accommodation process. They have the capabilities but don't use them for whatever (likely corporate priorities) reasons.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

I do wonder sometimes what the outcome would be if Disney were forced to litigate the question of what constitutes being “unable” to wait in long lines.

 

[voxparse]

Actually, based on DH's experience, the CMs end up asking a lot of details, including asking for medical information and it becomes very tiring and time consuming. No, they shouldn't be doing that, but the reality is that they do.

Why should those who need accommodation have to pay extra money just to be properly accommodated and that is precisely what is happening now.

And history has proven that if they eliminate Lightning Lanes and went back to the old DAS system, the system would not be overwhelmed, sorry, but actual real experience taught us that.

I've used the alternative accommodations extensively and no CM has asked me anything personal or medical. What they do ask are logistics questions. Some people may choose to disclose more specifics because that is the simplest way for them to convey their needs, but there is no requirement. The questions they ask are designed to tease out what the right accommodation is for the individual. I have never had any of these conversations last more than a couple of minutes. I will say it is a touch inconvenient repeating myself several times a day but I have a kid so I'm pretty used to it.

Voxparse: "Hey I need to be sure there is a way for me to exit this line quickly in case of a medical problem, is that possible in this line or do I need to use an alternative entrance?"

CM at 7 Dwarfs: "You'll need an alternative because once you're in this line you will be trapped for all eternity with no hope for escape. You'll need six months and extensive therapy just to stop singing the song"

CM at Tron: "We have more exits than you can count. There are CMs everywhere. Worst case we might be able to dematerialize you. You'll be fine"

 

[voxparse]

While Disney could, in theory, get rid of DAS so long as they have other accommodations for those who can't wait in a long line due to their disability, I think the step they would take before that would be to limit, in some way, how many times it can be used.

For example, if their data shows that the typical non-DAS, non-LL guest gets on six rides per day at MK, limiting DAS use to six times per day.

I've always thought it would be better to limit the velocity of DAS use. They certainly have the data and could determine what a typical day looks like and design systems of accommodations that mimic that data. The problem with DAS has always been that it isn't just an accommodation, it is a far superior way to experience the parks.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I've used the alternative accommodations extensively and no CM has asked me anything personal or medical. What they do ask are logistics questions. Some people may choose to disclose more specifics because that is the simplest way for them to convey their needs, but there is no requirement. The questions they ask are designed to tease out what the right accommodation is for the individual. I have never had any of these conversations last more than a couple of minutes. I will say it is a touch inconvenient repeating myself several times a day but I have a kid so I'm pretty used to it.

Voxparse: "Hey I need to be sure there is a way for me to exit this line quickly in case of a medical problem, is that possible in this line or do I need to use an alternative entrance?"

CM at 7 Dwarfs: "You'll need an alternative because once you're in this line you will be trapped for all eternity with no hope for escape. You'll need six months and extensive therapy just to stop singing the song"

CM at Tron: "We have more exits than you can count. There are CMs everywhere. Worst case we might be able to dematerialize you. You'll be fine"

My sister (who has Crohn’s) had used DAS before because that’s the accommodation that was offered, has been twice since the changes.

She didn’t try for a DAS because so long as there were other accommodations, she was fine with that. She’s never had to go into detail, just asks what she need to do if needing to leave the line. Normally she goes with waiting outside the line then meeting up with her family at the merge, which she’s perfectly fine with.

 

[mistysue]

I've always thought it would be better to limit the velocity of DAS use. They certainly have the data and could determine what a typical day looks like and design systems of accommodations that mimic that data. The problem with DAS has always been that it isn't just an accommodation, it is a far superior way to experience the parks.

I am so with you on this. In these discussions you always get the random "well, I only used it on this trip because we only had one day so we had to get on everything in the 13 hours straight I spent criss-crossing the MK and I couldn't do that without DAS even though I was having a great day..." Well, nobody without DAS was getting on everything, so tell again how this was equalizing your experience? My son (and I'm so glad he's recently been growing out of things) required DAS for very specific scenarios, and it was hellish explaining to other kids on a trip why it's not right to just use it for everything because the level of potential advantage was incomparable to anything else available. "Yes guys, we could be looping Soarin' but that queue isn't a problem" is like telling a 6 year old you've cancelled ice cream forever.

 

[Evita_W]

While Disney could, in theory, get rid of DAS so long as they have other accommodations for those who can't wait in a long line due to their disability, I think the step they would take before that would be to limit, in some way, how many times it can be used.

For example, if their data shows that the typical non-DAS, non-LL guest gets on six rides per day at MK, limiting DAS use to six times per day.

I am so with you on this. In these discussions you always get the random "well, I only used it on this trip because we only had one day so we had to get on everything in the 13 hours straight I spent criss-crossing the MK and I couldn't do that without DAS even though I was having a great day..." Well, nobody without DAS was getting on everything, so tell again how this was equalizing your experience? My son (and I'm so glad he's recently been growing out of things) required DAS for very specific scenarios, and it was hellish explaining to other kids on a trip why it's not right to just use it for everything because the level of potential advantage was incomparable to anything else available. "Yes guys, we could be looping Soarin' but that queue isn't a problem" is like telling a 6 year old you've cancelled ice cream forever.

Unfortunately, that wouldn't actually be equal access, as there is nothing artificially limiting the number of times a non-disabled guest can go on attractions like this. Remember the average guest may only get on 6 rides in a day, but there are outliers that will do more and Disney would have to match those outliers, some of which have managed to do every attraction in a single day, even on busy days (without the use of a DAS), there are YouTube videos showing this and others may do attractions with minimal wait times and do a lot more as well, so on and so forth.

From a practical standpoint it makes sense, but it definitely would be challenged and not legal because there would be no way to figure out how to make it equal.

 

[voxparse]

Unfortunately, that wouldn't actually be equal access, as there is nothing artificially limiting the number of times a non-disabled guest can go on attractions like this. Remember the average guest may only get on 6 rides in a day, but there are outliers that will do more and Disney would have to match those outliers, some of which have managed to do every attraction in a single day, even on busy days (without the use of a DAS), there are YouTube videos showing this and others may do attractions with minimal wait times and do a lot more as well, so on and so forth.

From a practical standpoint it makes sense, but it definitely would be challenged and not legal because there would be no way to figure out how to make it equal.

What limits someone's ability is only being able to wait in a single line at a time. DAS makes it possible to wait in two lines at the same time.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Unfortunately, that wouldn't actually be equal access, as there is nothing artificially limiting the number of times a non-disabled guest can go on attractions like this. Remember the average guest may only get on 6 rides in a day, but there are outliers that will do more and Disney would have to match those outliers, some of which have managed to do every attraction in a single day, even on busy days (without the use of a DAS), there are YouTube videos showing this and others may do attractions with minimal wait times and do a lot more as well, so on and so forth.

From a practical standpoint it makes sense, but it definitely would be challenged and not legal because there would be no way to figure out how to make it equal.

Using average and typical guest info on number of rides was one of the ways Disney showed the court that the GAC was overkill and disruptive to operations. There is nothing in the ADA that mandates that a disabled guest has to have better access/experience than the typical guest .

 

[OurBigTrip]

Unfortunately, that wouldn't actually be equal access, as there is nothing artificially limiting the number of times a non-disabled guest can go on attractions like this. Remember the average guest may only get on 6 rides in a day, but there are outliers that will do more and Disney would have to match those outliers, some of which have managed to do every attraction in a single day, even on busy days (without the use of a DAS), there are YouTube videos showing this and others may do attractions with minimal wait times and do a lot more as well, so on and so forth.

From a practical standpoint it makes sense, but it definitely would be challenged and not legal because there would be no way to figure out how to make it equal.

Oh, and I don’t believe that anyone has experienced all 29 attractions in MK in day without using LL. 8:30am - 11:00pm would mean an average of 30 minutes per attraction including wait time, experience , and walking to the next ride.

Sorry, I don’t believe that.

 

[lanejudy]

Except any lawyer worth anything is going to point to the Premier Lightning Lane pass and multiple lightning lane or whatever it is called

Sure those points will be brought up, but that doesn't mean Disney has to change anything. Paid LLs is part of their business model, removing or reducing that option could be argued as detrimental to operations. An accommodation has to fit within the parameters of a business's standard operations. Many parks now use some kind of paid queue system, so Disney isn't outside the norm for this. I am more than certain that Disney can produce documentation that a greater share of all guests were being accommodated by DAS than other parks accommodate, thus the need for change.

Unfortunately, that wouldn't actually be equal access, as there is nothing artificially limiting the number of times a non-disabled guest can go on attractions like this.

Several parks — including ones using IBCCES do have limits to the number of attractions per day with the accommodation.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Sure those points will be brought up, but that doesn't mean Disney has to change anything. Paid LLs is part of their business model, removing or reducing that option could be argued as detrimental to operations. An accommodation has to fit within the parameters of a business's standard operations. Many parks now use some kind of paid queue system, so Disney isn't outside the norm for this. I am more than certain that Disney can produce documentation that a greater share of all guests were being accommodated by DAS than other parks accommodate, thus the need for change.

I think this is a point that a lot of people either don't know, don't understand, or won't acknowledge...businesses are required to fit accommodations into their business operations; they are not required to establish the best possible accommodations, and then try to make their business operate around those accommodations.

 

[mistysue]

Unfortunately, that wouldn't actually be equal access, as there is nothing artificially limiting the number of times a non-disabled guest can go on attractions like this. Remember the average guest may only get on 6 rides in a day, but there are outliers that will do more and Disney would have to match those outliers, some of which have managed to do every attraction in a single day, even on busy days (without the use of a DAS), there are YouTube videos showing this and others may do attractions with minimal wait times and do a lot more as well, so on and so forth.

From a practical standpoint it makes sense, but it definitely would be challenged and not legal because there would be no way to figure out how to make it equal.

No, it is not required by the ADA that a disabled person has an equal experience to the greatest possible experience anyone has ever had. It is required that people have access to experiences. There is no requirement that a business completely change their business model to give the ultimate best experience to the disabled and then figure out how the rest of the public fits in after what is left. That is absurd at its core.
I wouldn't be surprised if an attempt to limit number of uses was met with needing that number of uses to be above average, but that is not the same thing as requiring the absolute best top of the line bells and whistles the typical consumer could not achieve.

What would be interesting is coming out with a sort of "DAS lite" for people who occasionally need to exit at some lines but in a typical day might not even NEED it so much as use it "just in case" since being allowed to leave and return, when what a person needs to do is leave and return, is so upsetting to so many. Maybe those people would feel better about being able to leave and flash their special pass when they return to not have to discuss it. To a certain extent many people have expressed that they are angry Disney is telling them they aren't disabled because they said DAS wasn't the appropriate accommodation for them. So maybe giving someone a card or a sticker so they feel acknowledged is how they fix that.