Cindy Sheehan - Normal?

[AllyandJack]

Grief over losing someone under "normal" circumstances is different than losing someone under unique circumstances. So, I don't think the grief she feels is the same as what one normally feels.

Having said that, my Nana died in a nursing home due to the negligence of the home and her doctor. I had my questions, so I got her medical records. I'm mad as heck. I had to stop myself from marching up to that home and letting them all have it. Is it the same grief I felt when an aunt I'm close to died? No. Nobody killed her.

The point is....I didn't do it. There is temptation to go up there and hold a big sign that says "This Place Killed My Nana". What's that going to prove? It's going to get me arrested. To me, that says, "Back off and deal with it another way."

There are many ways Cindy Sheehan can do what she thinks is honoring her son's memory. She can join legit protests that don't involve breaking laws. She can send care packages to the troops to show her support for them. She can write letters to her senators and congress-people. Camping outside the President's home and happily getting arrested in front of the White House isn't doing anything for her cause.

I actually agree with her message. I don't agree with her reasoning, but so what? Recently, she has, indeed, gone off the deep end...."occupied New Orleans"....calling the terrorists killing people in Iraq "freedom fighters"....siding with the Palestinian terrorists.....what does that have to do with being against the Iraq war and bringing the troops home? Nothing. She may have started out sane and with a good message, but she has lost a screw somewhere and she needs help.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Yesterday I saw that photo gallaj0 posted and noticed the smile. It's almost like she knew she was going to be arrested, would get media attention, and was happy that she was getting what she wanted.

She's become the white, female version of Jesse Jackson -- a person who never met a camera or microphone he/she didn't love. Cindy Sheehan might have claimed grief as an excuse for her activities before, but the pictures yesterday showed a woman who is as media-hungry as most politicians. If she is being used, it's because she wants to be used.

 

[Hodder]

Alot of people here make good points. I do agree that she has stepped over the line. I try to stay away from any news about her as I don't believe that she is going about things the right way and in soem way has become a political pawn.

 

[auntpolly]

Not voting because of lack of appropriate choices.

You guys would have really hated the suffragettes, the civil rights protesters and the vietnam protesters -- they did get stuff done, though.... even though there were people who talked of them as some of you talk about war protesters today.

 

[auntpolly]

Having said that, my Nana died in a nursing home due to the negligence of the home and her doctor. I had my questions, so I got her medical records. I'm mad as heck. I had to stop myself from marching up to that home and letting them all have it. Is it the same grief I felt when an aunt I'm close to died? No. Nobody killed her.

.

She died due to negligence but no one killed her? I'm not sure I follow. I think things like that need to be challenged if other seniors are at risk.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

She died due to negligence but no one killed her? I'm not sure I follow. I think things like that need to be challenged if other seniors are at risk.

I think the point was picketing wouldn't change that and would just cause her personal and legal problems.

The nobody killed her comment was in comparison to war, I assume. (so in other words--id'ing that it isn't quite the same as Sheehan--but it is close.)

An appropriate challenge is calling lawmakers and going the right way about doing things.

I've never understood the role of a protestor. There's things I don't agree with--but going and standing and holding a sign, never quite understand how that changes anything. There are just other ways. Sitting in front of the white house and getting arrested, doesn't change the war. Anybody who does that will get arrested.

Now Rosa Parks--she's my kind of gal! Suffragettes..no problem.

Sheehan would do more good if she would go about it a different way.

 

[DawnCt1]

I am surprised at the poll. I think its a combination of one and four but I am pleasantly surprised that most Dis'ers are sympathetic with Cindy, except for her loss of course, which when its one soldier, its all of our loss.

 

[auntpolly]

I think the point was picketing wouldn't change that and would just cause her personal and legal problems.


.

Picketing wouldn't be the way to go there -- it's a last resort. I think action needs to be taken if a nursing home is negligent, if only to insure other residents are safe.

If the nursing home was igoring all inquiries and seniors continued to die, I'd think it would be completely appropriate to picket, though.

 

[Charade]

Not voting because of lack of appropriate choices.

for you that is. Right?

You guys would have really hated the suffragettes, the civil rights protesters and the vietnam protesters -- they did get stuff done, though.... even though there were people who talked of them as some of you talk about war protesters today.

And applying todays media coverage to the suffragettes and possibly the civil rights movements probably would have had different results.

They also broke the law and were processed accordingly. Their message did get through though. However, I highly doubt (or it's been filtered through time) that the protests by the suffragettes and the civil rights movements had anything but a single goal in mind. From all the other accusations that Cindy has made totally unrelated to her mission and all of the other "agendas" that her supporters have made here appear like a nut job who's being used. Like what does the claim the 2000 and 2004 election were "stolen" as the Congresswoman from GA said in her speech have to do with her goal to bring home the troops? She seemed to have a laundry list of grievances and took this opportunity in front of TV cameras to shout them out.

 

[auntpolly]

I am surprised at the poll. I think its a combination of one and four but I am pleasantly surprised that most Dis'ers are sympathetic with Cindy, except for her loss of course, which when its one soldier, its all of our loss.

I assume you mean not sympathetic. See, when people like you use the word "pleasant" to describe anything connected to this ridiculous war, it clears a lot up for me.

 

[auntpolly]

for you that is. Right?

Well of course for me -- what a silly question. Me, and others who don't have a choice in the poll. Of course the results will be stacked it people aren't represented.

It's like the old -- "do you still beat your wife -- yes or no?"

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Well of course for me -- what a silly question. Me, and others who don't have a choice in the poll. Of course the results will be stacked it people aren't represented.

It's like the old -- "do you still beat your wife -- yes or no?"

Actually, it's not a silly question. Every poll is stacked in some way: by the way the question is phrased, by the choices provided, by the selected population polled, etc. I'd be surprised to find a political poll that wasn't stacked in some way.

 

[dcentity2000]

My apologies for the narrow spectrum of poll choices. It was my thinking that Cindy Sheehan's actions do not portray a person of health and neither should we expect them too. To outline in more depth the poll choices:

1. Shameless hate - that Cindy Sheehan's actions are motivated by her hate for the executive and are not the result of grief or mental condition. This field would include miscief, misrepresentation or cold blooded political capitolising based on her son's status.
2. Acts of grief - that Cindy Sheehan's actions are in line with the natural process of grief, which is comprised of stages, namely anger, bargaining, depression, denial and so on.
3. Cognitive illness - that as a result of the natural process of grief, possibly coupled with political exasperation, Cindy Sheehan is exhibiting symptoms of a cognitive distortion (such as minimising, the looking glass effect and so on). Of course, this could be happily filed under grief but I wanted a half-way point between a psychiatric illness and the psychological condition of grief.
4. Ingrained Psychiatric illness - that Cindy Sheehan is exhibiting the symptoms of a pre-disposition towards mental ill health manifesting itself now as part of the grieving process. It is far fetched, but not implausible.

Of course, there could have been other options, such as under-dog heroism, rituals of black magic and proof of alien parentage, but none seemed to fully explain her actions.

One could argue that she is unaffected by grief and that her motives are political yet without hate, but it is first of all extremely unlikely in the former and just as unusual in the latter. It's not impossible, but it is far-fetched.

Personally I believe that the poor woman is in grieving and that this grieving coupled with an unusual media coverage has caused the development of some cognitive distortions, namely all-or-nothing thinking (you see things in black-and-white categories; if your performance falls short of perfect, you see your self as a total failure), mental filter (you pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that discolors the entire beaker of water) and the binocular trick (you exaggerate the importance of things (such as your goof-up or someone else's achievement)).

This is not to say that her actions are entirely unfounded and it certainly is not to say that all of her actions result from said cognitive distortions. I believe that she is acting in the extreme because of these distortions and that the motive of her actions is grief, pure and simple. I do believe that she does have anger towards the executive, but then again this is just part of grief as well; it is also remarkably common these days in ordinary life.

If you have an other option which you wish to share with us, please post it here with reasons - it'll be interesting.



Rich::

 

[auntpolly]

Actually, it's not a silly question. Every poll is stacked in some way: by the way the question is phrased, by the choices provided, by the selected population polled, etc. I'd be surprised to find a political poll that wasn't stacked in some way.

So here's a poll for you:

George Bush is:

a) just too stupid

b) a warmonger

c) a puppet

How would you answer this poll?

 

[Charade]

Well of course for me -- what a silly question. Me, and others who don't have a choice in the poll. Of course the results will be stacked it people aren't represented.

It's like the old -- "do you still beat your wife -- yes or no?"

So "Acts of Grief" wasn't at least one valid choice for you?

 

[dcentity2000]

So here's a poll for you:

George Bush is:

a) just too stupid

b) a warmonger

c) a puppet

How would you answer this poll?

All of the above

[EDIT]: Just a joke



Rich::

 

[Holly]

How about grief stricken mother of a fallen soldier looking for reasons why we are sending our children, our fellow Americans, into war instead of gathering them up and bringing them home?

NO, I wouldn't say she's insane. I'd say she's human.

Oy.

Best I back out of this thread. I've successfully avoided all Cindy Sheehan bashing threads thus far and I liked it that way......

I totally agree. That poll was very lacking in its range of answers.

 

[Charade]

So here's a poll for you:

George Bush is:

a) just too stupid

b) a warmonger

c) a puppet

How would you answer this poll?

d) Doing what he thinks needs to be done.

 

[auntpolly]

So "Acts of Grief" wasn't at least one valid choice for you?

No. It makes it seem like she's doing something wrong because her grief has made her coo-coo or something.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

So here's a poll for you:

George Bush is:

a) just too stupid

b) a warmonger

c) a puppet

How would you answer this poll?

Thanks for proving my point.