Churches venture into AIDS activism at home

[cardaway]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10268413/

Harry Knox, director of the religion and faith programs at the Human Rights Campaign Foundation — a leading gay rights organization — said he welcomed the outreach as long as it wasn’t judgmental.

“For far too long, many radical right pastors have mischaracterized the disease for their own political purposes and we have reaped the unfortunate reward of that misinformation,” he said. “It is good news that evangelicals are now embracing people with HIV and AIDS to help us get our needs met.”

I agree with Mr. Knox, this is good news.

 

[hokiefan33]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10268413/



I agree with Mr. Knox, this is good news.

“The church has the moral authority to say, ’Hey, it’s not a sin to be sick,”’ said Warren, author of “The Purpose Driven Life,” a best-selling book.

Nobody is, or at least should be, debating this. AIDS is a very unfortunate disease, that is not necessarily brought about by homosexual lifestyles and can come from such things as blood transfusions or infected needles. And it is certainly NOT a sin to be sick. I think where a lot of people confuse some church's stance on this is when they assume that we hate people with AIDS, b/c they may be gay. That isn't the case. But look at it from this standpoint - assume a person DOES have AIDS due to a homosexual lifestyle. In that case, it is NOT a sin to be sick, but it IS a sin to lead the lifestyle that led to it. Of course, that is my perspective, derived solely from the Bible.

 

[2funny2c]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10268413/



I agree with Mr. Knox, this is good news.

Not bad for a bunch of hypocrite filled churches. Willowcreek and Saddleback. 18k and 20k members respectively.

 

[yeartolate]

That is a huge step in the right direction.

 

[Chuck S]

But look at it from this standpoint - assume a person DOES have AIDS due to a homosexual lifestyle. In that case, it is NOT a sin to be sick, but it IS a sin to lead the lifestyle that led to it. Of course, that is my perspective, derived solely from the Bible.

But so many other things are also "sins" according to the Bible that people do in day to day life without the church critcizing them. Bible also says that no sin is greater than any other, and we are all sinners. Of course, that is my perspective, derived solely from the Bible.

 

[yeartolate]

But so many other things are also "sins" according to the Bible that people do in day to day life without the church critcizing them. Bible also says that no sin is greater than any other, and we are all sinners.

This has always been asource of amazement for me - why this particular sin was set above most others.

Jesus may or may not have had views about homosexuality, but this much is certain - he hated sin loved the sinner and he would never have treated a person badly based on this one aspect of his life.

 

[hokiefan33]

But so many other things are also "sins" according to the Bible that people do in day to day life without the church critcizing them. Bible also says that no sin is greater than any other, and we are all sinners. Of course, that is my perspective, derived solely from the Bible.

Did I say different anywhere else? If so, I'm not aware of it. I believe this topic was limited to one thing, not all "sins."

 

[2funny2c]

I feel most badly for the people in Africa that have AIDS. That is what prompted Saddleback to get involved with AIDS in the US. After Kay Warren saw the devastating effects of AIDS in Africa she was led to start addressing in the US through her husband Rick Warren and the church.

Though it is no sin to be sick, often our sinful behavior can lead to such sickness such as STDs and AIDS. Just like lung cancer and smoking there are still people out there engaged in risky unprotected behavor through drugs and unprotected sex that leads to HIV/AIDS. It is good that the church is not taking this response:

There should be a way for this to work like the organ donation system. IIRC people who do not change their habits cannot get a replacement organ. People who refuse to change their habits should not get further financial help with their medical bills.

I applaud the efforts of Rick Warren and Saddleback to address this pandemic and its effects.

 

[hokiefan33]

This has always been asource of amazement for me - why this particular sin was set above most others.

Jesus may or may not have had views about homosexuality, but this much is certain - he hated sin loved the sinner and he would never have treated a person badly based on this one aspect of his life.

Agreed - who said this was "set above most others"? If you're attributing that to me, you've got it mistaken. This just happens to be the focus of this thread.

 

[2funny2c]

But so many other things are also "sins" according to the Bible that people do in day to day life without the church critcizing them. Bible also says that no sin is greater than any other, and we are all sinners. Of course, that is my perspective, derived solely from the Bible.

There is a difference in sinning and living a sinful lifestyle.

True, no sin is greater, but the church tends to criticize unrepentant, willful, sinful lifestyles more than sins committed by people who are trying to repent and break free of their sinful natures.

 

[cardaway]

But so many other things are also "sins" according to the Bible that people do in day to day life without the church critcizing them. Bible also says that no sin is greater than any other, and we are all sinners. Of course, that is my perspective, derived solely from the Bible.

You mean the agedaless sins.

Just stay strong. As more and more openly gay Christians speak out it will continue to get better.

 

[Chuck S]

There is a difference in sinning and living a sinful lifestyle.

True, no sin is greater, but the church tends to criticize unrepentant, willful, sinful lifestyles more than sins committed by people who are trying to repent and break free of their sinful natures.

Really? I haven't heard a church tend to criticize people for wearing blended fabrics, or eating shellfish and pork.

 

[hokiefan33]

You mean the agedaless sins.

Just stay strong. As more and more openly gay Christians speak out it will continue to get better.

Not sure what an "agedaless" sin is.

According to the Bible, there can't be any such thing as a gay Christian. Why? B/c according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin. Also, the Bible clearly states that a child of God does NOT continue in persistent, willful, deliberate sin (which, if you're a Christian and know your Bible, you would know that homosexuality would be one of those sins). So, by definition, a child of God (a Christian) could not continue in homosexuality.

 

[2funny2c]

You mean the agedaless sins.

Just stay strong. As more and more openly gay Christians speak out it will continue to get better.

Gay Christian is an oxymoron. When one becomes a Christian he must repent of his sins. Living an openly gay lifestyle is not repentance.

 

[yeartolate]

Agreed - who said this was "set above most others"? If you're attributing that to me, you've got it mistaken. This just happens to be the focus of this thread.

I was not attributing it to you, nor do I understand why you would say that.

I base it on on the sum total of my life experience.

While I am at it, I wanted to say that it is important that this church has taken this on, but many others have already paved the way and acted more in accordance with my perception is of "WWJD".

 

[hokiefan33]

Really? I haven't heard a church tend to criticize people for wearing blended fabrics, or eating shellfish and pork.

Please, the tired OT arguments work with Jews, but not with Christians.

 

[Chuck S]

Gay Christian is an oxymoron. When one becomes a Christian he must repent of his sins. Living an openly gay lifestyle is not repentance.

But "Christians" that openly enjoy shellfish, pork, wearing blended fabrics are repentent? I'll bet they repeat the offense on a fairly regular basis, don't you? Are pork eating Christians an oxymoron, too?

 

[JennyMominRI]

There is a difference in sinning and living a sinful lifestyle.

True, no sin is greater, but the church tends to criticize unrepentant, willful, sinful lifestyles more than sins committed by people who are trying to repent and break free of their sinful natures.

Well then I guess people who are obese(without a medical cause) should be treated the same way as homosexuals by the church...Gluttony is a sin

 

[Chuck S]

Please, the tired OT arguments work with Jews, but not with Christians.

Why, aren't both the "horrible offenses" considered abominations in Leviticus? If you are talking New Testement, you are talking simply the opinions of Peter and Paul. And if Peter's opinions were extremely important to Christians, wouldn't we all be Catholic? Peter was "the first Pope".

 

[hokiefan33]

Why, aren't both the "horrible offenses" considered abominatoins in Leviticus. If you are talking New Testement, you are talking simply the opinions of Peter and Paul. And if Peter's opinions were extremely important to Christians, wouldn't we all be Catholic? Peter was "the first Pope".

At this, I'll have to stop arguing with you, b/c it will be pointless, if these are points you actually believe. I assume you still believe Christians are under the Law, even though Christ fulfilled it by His death on the cross. And you may or may not be Catholic, but if you are, that present obstacles in and of itself that we won't be able to get around in our arguments. I just think we'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks.