Christians and Gays, Opinions please

[cardaway]

So rather than solve the problem people are now going after homosexuals as they speak out about the problem, calling them negative and accusing them of exaggerating?

Amazing.

 

[toto2]

Your missing the point that most christians believe the bible to be Gods words that he inspired men to write. If he inspired men to write it then I believe it is Gods words and correct (people will argue translation has tarnished but I believe that some of the translations was inspired also). I also believe God and Jesus to be the same divine being in two different forms. So in fact anything inspired text by God is in fact coming from Jesus.

Thats the way I see it at least!

So , who are the humans who are perfect enough to transale , and writte and interpret perfectlywhat God want to say. The Bible as been translated so many times in soo many languages , nd at one point somebody ( or many people people) had to decides which writting had to stay in the final version of the book. Even then , some christians denomination ( Jehovas witness I think) let other things go from the bible mor translated it in another way that does not mean the same thing as other versions. So they are perfect as well. That makes an awfull lot of perfect people. Who decided to use the word homosexual when this word never existed in the time it was written ? I thought that only god was perfect ? It would take perfect people to translate or interpret perfectly what is in there...

 

[macntosh]

I think some people asked to see a story written in a paper about Christian's doing the right thing. This was written this last Saturday about the church I attend.

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/dn/religion/stories/032506dnrelwatermark.3ef8952.html

 

[Grandpa Simpson]

So , who are the humans who are perfect enough to transale , and writte and interpret perfectlywhat God want to say. The Bible as been translated so many times in soo many languages , nd at one point somebody ( or many people people) had to decides which writting had to stay in the final version of the book. Even then , some christians denomination ( Jehovas witness I think) let other things go from the bible mor translated it in another way that does not mean the same thing as other versions. So they are perfect as well. That makes an awfull lot of perfect people. Who decided to use the word homosexual when this word never existed in the time it was written ? I thought that only god was perfect ? It would take perfect people to translate or interpret perfectly what is in there...

Most Christians believe that God has/is protecting His Word, the Bible, through the ages and through multiple translations to ensure that it remains His message to us. There are significant portions of very early manuscripts that can be used for comparison and demonstate the reliability of most modern Bible translations.

As for interpretation, there you are dealing with biblical hermeneutics, which is a process of interpreting the Bible. This gets very involved with numerous different theological groups or schools of biblical hermeneutics, each of which will result in a variation of some degree in how specific Scriptures are interpreted. Some people also talk about biblical exegesis, which is a deeper critical interpretation of the Bible.

It's probably sufficient to say that we all are in for some major surprises one day when God finally reveals everything to us. I can imagine a lot of forehead slaps and numerous "D'ohs!" resounding throughout the halls of heaven as we finally discover what was really meant. Until then we muddle along as imperfect beings can depending as best as we can upon God's guidance to know and understand the truth.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

So , who are the humans who are perfect enough to transale , and writte and interpret perfectlywhat God want to say.

If I remember correctly, it was King James. But I'm not sure about his sexuality, because everyone forgets to add bibliographies to their posts!

 

[JoyG]

For that matter, and this isn't meant as a slam, but I feel the exact same way towards most fundamentalist Christians. They can be good, if not great, people, but I feel the lifestyle choice and belief systems too much for my own personal tastes.

Again, I don't intend to inflame anyone with that comment, it truly is the way I feel. And as much as I may cringe in saying this, but some of my best friends are fundamentalist Christians. It's true!

Rick,

I am not feeling slammed at all. I appeciate your honesty and the fact you were able to let me know you don't agree with my beliefs without using inflammatory language. I'm happy to know that you are able to have fundamentalist christian friends in your life and you can see it is possible for people of different beliefs to still have an affection for each other.

I was going to add in my original post that one of my BEST friends in High School (who was also my prom date) was gay. I decided to leave it out because I wasn't sure anyone would believe me. We've lost track during the years, but I was really fond of him, he did the pictures at my wedding and his mom did my hair and makeup.

Joy

 

[jimmiej]

So it is people interpreting Jesus words in Roman and Corinthians , not Jesus himself.

No. The Pauline epistles are the writings of the Apostle Paul. The Scriptures say and (most?) Christians believe ALL Scripture is inspired by God.

And it could be possible that it would be the act of prostitution ( or having sex with married man) and not the sex out of wedlock. So so far , Jesus , God incarnated ( if you are a catholic, I dont) has not spoken a word about homosexuality , a subject that nonetheless seem to be disturbing to a lot of christians.

The Scripture doesn't specify married/out-of-wedlock. I'm not Catholic, I'm Baptist. As I said before, Jesus did not speak about homosexuality, at least in Scripture. However, as another poster said, I take ALL Scripture as inspired by God.

And , If I am not mistaken , Jesus said something like "Give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar" in response to some jewish people who wante to go to war with the roman, meaning ( if I remember well from my catholic classes of 30 yeras ago) that there is the law of politician , and the law of "the spirit". Wich make me think that Jesus would have said in regard to same-sex marriage , that it is none of the religion business , if it is the governement that makes those contracts.

Your opinion appears (to me) to be in conflict with Scripture overall.

 

[BethR]

It's probably sufficient to say that we all are in for some major surprises one day when God finally reveals everything to us. I can imagine a lot of forehead slaps and numerous "D'ohs!" resounding throughout the halls of heaven as we finally discover what was really meant.

Reminds me of this story about monks translating ancient religious teachings:

A new monk arrived at the monastery. He was assigned to help the other monks in copying the old texts by hand. He noticed, however, that they were copying copies, not the original books. The new monk went to the head monk to ask him about this. He pointed out that if there were an error in the first copy, that error would be continued in all of the other copies.

The head monk said, 'We have been copying from the copies for centuries, but you make a good point, my son.' The head monk went down into the cellar with one of the copies to check it against the original.

Hours later, nobody had seen him, so one of the monks went downstairs to look for him. He heard a sobbing coming from the back of the cellar and found the old monk leaning over one of the original books, crying.

He asked what was wrong.

'The word is 'celebrate' - 'CELEBRATE'!' sobbed the head monk.

 

[DMRick]

It was much easier for me to follow my fundamentalist beliefs before I knew someone personally who was gay. Someone I loved. Someone I know loved the Lord. I know a lot of gay people say they wouldn't want to be any other way, and this person is now very comfortable in his skin. But it wasn't always like that. He had a tough life, through his divorce, his finding himself, and his finding his soulmate. Do you have any idea how hard that last part would have been for me to say, if I didn't love this person? My God doesn't make junk, and he doesn't make mistakes. I have no idea why He would make a person gay, when most of us know a gay person who has or is hurting. But I know one thing. It's not a choice. I know of no one who would choose to be hurt for so many years by so many people. Oh, don't misunderstand me. He's loved in his church, (and his church is catholic. He's wanted there, and a vital part of it. Both him and his mate) and loved by many. He's happy with his lifestyle, now that he understands God still loves him. Even if God hated what might be a sin..he still loves this man. Would I have been a happy camper if my son had been gay? No, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Because I would have hated to watch him go through what most gays go through. I wouldn't have wanted him to have cancer either. I don't think either are a choice.

I love the people in my church, and I remain there. It's a great church, and much time and money is spent helping those that need help. It's a church of wonderful people. Most of them haven't gotten to know someone close who is gay, so they haven't had my experiences. I think knowing and loving someone who is gay is what makes the difference. Few of the members of my church know how I feel. We spend next to zero time talking about the gay lifestyle in our church, so it just doesn't come up. If you are gay and belong to our church, it's expected you won't act on the lifestyle. I don't have a problem with that. I figure if they didn't want to be there, knowing the doctrine and belief of the church body, they wouldn't be. If you are a prostitute, it's expected you wouldn't be acting on it (and I believe there is choice there) and be a member of our church.

I don't know what the Bible versus are supposed to mean (since I believe God only creates good stuff)..I've read them, been preached to about them..at one time thought I knew just what they meant...but I'm not sure anymore. I do know that it's not up to me to judge. If I judge I could miss the chance to go to heaven. I'm not taking any chances, so I'll just accept what is, is. I'll let God make his judgements. I may meet my friend in the hereafter, I may not. But it's not my decision.

 

[C.Ann]

. I'll let God make his judgements..

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And that's the only one who really counts, isn't it? Not the millions of others who try to make His judgements for Him..

 

[VSL]

Beth - that was brilliant!!

 

[cardaway]

It was much easier for me to follow my fundamentalist beliefs before I knew someone personally who was gay. Someone I loved. Someone I know loved the Lord.

 

[chell]

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And that's the only one who really counts, isn't it? Not the millions of others who try to make His judgements for Him..

AMEN!

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

If I remember correctly, the only time Jesus dealt with any sexual matters (in the scriptures) was when the prostitute was brought before Him. This is where He made the comment about "casting the first stone."

They've pretty much proven that this never happened. They found this story scrawled in the margine of the older text, and think that people who copied the Bible added it in the middle ages.

I try very hard to figure out Jesus would really do or want from us, and I believe very strongly that Jesus would not want or approve of this campaign against gay people.

 

[jimmiej]

They've pretty much proven that this never happened. They found this story scrawled in the margine of the older text, and think that people who copied the Bible added it in the middle ages.

No disrespect intented to you personally, but I don't believe that.

I try very hard to figure out Jesus would really do or want from us, and I believe very strongly that Jesus would not want or approve of this campaign against gay people.

IA with you on this point. Jesus used love and forgiveness to draw people. However, Scripture taken as a whole seems to indicate sex outside of man/woman marriage is offensive to God.

Although it doesn't directly deal with sex, there is the story of Jesus talking with the Samaratin woman at the well. He confronted her about the fact that she had been married five times and was currently living with a man she was NOT married to. Again, this appears to be in line with other scripture regarding sexual relationships.

 

[toto2]

The Scripture doesn't specify married/out-of-wedlock. I'm not Catholic, I'm Baptist. As I said before, Jesus did not speak about homosexuality, at least in Scripture. However, as another poster said, I take ALL Scripture as inspired by God.



Your opinion appears (to me) to be in conflict with Scripture overall.

My opinion does not have to be in line with scriptures since I am not a follower of any religion. So obviously, my interpretation can be different than yours !

And I will had that my opinion is not in line with other opinions or interpertations. The word in the scripture are there , and the same for everyone , depending on thetrans lation you read. The story of the stoning of the women is the same for everyone , but how you interpret it depend on your congregation , if you are a catholic , a protestant , a babtist or a mormon. So , she can be in fact be stoned for prostitution , and not because she is having sex out of wedlock , since , like you said , this would be the only mention of Jesus dealing with sexual issues in the four gospel.


( I know , I am cutting hair in four here ) ( Here I translate a french expression that might be lost in translation...Oh translation can be decptives sometimes !)

 

[toto2]

And jimmiej , it is really nice talking about these things with you , even though we are on very different planes about this whole issue

 

[jimmiej]

And jimmiej , it is really nice talking about these things with you , even though we are on very different planes about this whole issue

Thank you! I assure you, there are a few here on the CB who do not share your sentement.

 

[Saxsoon]

"Just once, I'd like to read a headline that said a Christian group was boycotting to feed the hungry. Or marching to house the homeless. Or pushing Congress to provide the poor with health care worthy of the name."

The above quote was from the article.

Unfortunately you probably won't read in the headlines about the work that Christians do for people in need. There are two reasons for that the first is because it's not very newsworthy to report about a group of Christians helping people and second because the works of charity are often done is secret and anonymously as unto God not for our personal "pats on the back."

That is true. You didn't see my local newspaper talk about my youth group when we wen't around asking for food for victims of hurricane katrina. You don't see it put in the paper when we go and clean up graffiti in town, or when we went to Mexico, tarred a children's home, along with giving beans and rice to those living in the dump. You don't see it in my paper when my church as a whole goes to Bosnia or Guatamala to help people in need there.

I am sorry to bring up this long dead thread, put I couldn't let that stand.