Chiropractors? Real medicine or quacks?

[rie'smom]

I'm not mill4023, but I said effectively the same thing and offered two quick plant-based treatments that have been embraced by "Western" medicine. In addition, if you scan leading medical journals you'll find lots of articles about studies that look into into the effectiveness of the incorporation of "non-traditional" treatments such as acupuncture, chiropractics, meditation, and such. The new term in vogue for such things is "complimentary medicine". In fact, there's even a program in the NIH concerning it. So tell me again how "Western" medicine rejects anything outside the orthodoxy and is closed-minded?

It has been my experience that doctors reject any form of medicine that takes money from either their pockets or pocketbooks.

We see an internist who has been maligned by other doctors. Why? Because he emphasizes preventive medicine with vitamins instead of medication. He also uses common sense and actually practices medicine rather than allowing the pharmaceutical companies to "play doctor" in his office. This doctor has a huge following because what he preaches works. He's down to earth and doesn't think he's a god-probably shakes a few trees.

A few months ago some doctors talked an intern into filing a suit against him for practicing pseudo medicine. The judge laughed them out of court and told the internist to tell his fellow doctors that they would be better off paying attention to their patients instead of trying to smear this particular doctor.

 

[rie'smom]

It is not my job to prove that something doesn't work. It is the responsibility of the seller to prove that what they are trying to sell me actually works before I will consider buying it.

Chiropractors have a financial interest in convincing people that their methods are effective. If they haven't provided any scientific evidence that this is true, it's because they cannot. What other possible reason could there be?

Drug companies also have a financial interest in convincing people that their drugs are effective. The difference is that they actually have provided scientific evidence in the form of properly conducted double-blind studies.

When I go to a doctor and they prescribe an antibiotic to treat an infection, the reason I take it is because there is clear scientific evidence that it works. My decision is not based on the fact that there isn't any proof that it doesn't work.

Nothing more needs to be said about drug companies.

There is also clear scientific evidence that many antibiotics, pain relievers, etc cause more harm than they help.

 

[Geoff_M]

Nothing more needs to be said about drug companies.

There is also clear scientific evidence that many antibiotics, pain relievers, etc cause more harm than they help.

And the same can be said about many "dietary supplements" and other things sold in vitamin stores.

Nothing more needs to be said about Big Placebo...

 

[mhsjax]

Nothing more needs to be said about drug companies.

There is also clear scientific evidence that many antibiotics, pain relievers, etc cause more harm than they help.

I agree with the antibiotics, unfortunately it is due to PEOPLE demanding a pill to cure anything and everything. I can count on one hand the number of times I have taken antibiotics, I am 47. When I do need one I am not the least bit resistant to them.

A chiropractor harmed my DMIlL beyond repair, if he had done his job he would have known that all those adjustments he was giving her were not doing anything to the fix her problem, just glossing over the symptoms but maybe he just wanted her money and didn't care.

 

[Disney Doll]

I have a problem with the whole "gotta see me 3x a week for 6 months" nonsense. I saw my PT once a week for 8 weeks after spine surgery and made a full recovery AND it was covered by my insurance.

Had a hip problem.

Week #1 - chiro 3x/week - felt better
Week #2 - chiro 2x/week - continued to feel better
Week#3 - chiro 1x and done - all better - no hip pain

Meanwhile, my friend went to PT for almost a year or a back problem and ended up having surgery...after spending all that time, money and co-pays on PT.

Hmmmm.....

 

[Disney Doll]

No, it's not like any other profession. Yes, there are good and bad doctors, but the difference is that doctors diagnose illness and prescribe treatments based on facts and science, while chiropractors diagnose illness and prescribe treatments based on beliefs and theories that have absolutely NO basis in fact or science.

There is no such thing as an adjustment, because there is no such thing as a subluxation or misalignment in terms of the chiropractic definition of these things.

So the fundamental basis for chiropractic "medicine" is based on completely made up concepts with no evidence to support them.

Can chiropractic treatment help with some back and neck pain? Yes.
In fact, that's the only area where there has ever been any clinical evidence of chiropractic helping.
And it only helps because some of what chiropractors do is similar to what would be done during massage therapy or physical therapy.

Everything about chiropractic "medicine" is a scam and ALL chiropractors are quacks. Some may be less bad than others, but the entire industry is a scam.

As a nurse who practices based on evidence, I'd love to see the factual scientific references for all the claims you made in this post.

 

[rie'smom]

And the same can be said about many "dietary supplements" and other things sold in vitamin stores.

Nothing more needs to be said about Big Placebo...

Except that drugs are, for the most part, WAYYYYYY more expensive than vitamins and minerals.

I agree with the antibiotics, unfortunately it is due to PEOPLE demanding a pill to cure anything and everything. I can count on one hand the number of times I have taken antibiotics, I am 47. When I do need one I am not the least bit resistant to them.

A chiropractor harmed my DMIlL beyond repair, if he had done his job he would have known that all those adjustments he was giving her were not doing anything to the fix her problem, just glossing over the symptoms but maybe he just wanted her money and didn't care.

Where is the personal responsibility? If I had a very bad illness, I'd go to my internist as well as my chiropractor.

My husband worked with a guy named Joe who went to a local doctor for 2 years because he wasn't feeling well. At the end of the second year, he went to a large hospital an hour away and w/in a few hours found out he had terminal cancer. So who is to blame? The local yokel for not doing enough testing or Joe because he was too stubborn to seek another medical opinion? The local guy was a well loved respected doctor who obviously made money off of Joe. Was he just glossing over the symptoms too? Doubtful

Patients could not take antibiotics if doctors weren't prescribing them.

 

[Disney Doll]

It may not be recognized as acupuncture practiced in the West today but it is the acupuncture that has been practiced in the East for thousands of years. Don't forget we think in the West that we invented everything.
Oh and as for bloodletting, many doctors are now using leeches because they've been found to help. They also use honey and maggots all of which were pooh poohed by "modern" medicine for years as quackery. Is the best way to treat an illness giving patients poison because that is what medicine is. It kills the bacteria but it also affects other parts of the body. Watch a tv commercial for pain relievers, arthritis meds or any other medication.
Also, are you a doctor? I'm just wondering why there seems to be a problem with alternative medicine.

Actually, in terms of cleaning up a very nasty wound, maggots do a wonderful job. The problem with them is that they freak people out. But I have had patients come into the hospital with them (nothing like taking off someone's slippers and having a bunch of maggots fall to the floor) but once we get them all cleaned off the skin, I have to tell you, the area where they were is usually beautiful, clean, no goo or anything.

 

[Disney Doll]

We can go on and on about the details, but it's kind of pointless, and like a lot of other topics on the DIS, people are going to keep posting anecdotal evidence, which for people who think logically, is really not evidence at all.

The problem with chiropractic is that the entire thing is founded on a theory that is complete nonsense. The theory is that virtually all disease is caused by misalignment of the spine, or what they call a subluxation, and that fixing this misalignment by performing adjustments will cure the disease.

The fact is that there is no such thing as a subluxation and short of an actual injury, it is impossible for the spine to get "mis-aligned". And if it can't get "mis-aligned", it certainly can't be fixed by an "adjustment".

So regardless of whether some people get relief from back pain by seeing a chiropractor, that relief is not due to any "adjustments" and the basic theory of chiropractic is still complete and utter nonsense.

So can chiropractic help with a sore back? Sure.
Would I suggest anyone see a chiropractor for a sore back? Absolutely not.
You can get the same kind of relief by seeing someone who actually understands how massage and physical therapy can help and has been trained based on scientific evidence, not nonsense theories.

I'll have to tell my friend who had back surgery because her spine was grossly misaligned with bulging discs ("subluxated" according to both her orthopedic and neurosurgeon anyway) that there is no such thing as misalignment of the spine so her very successful back surgery requiring rods and screws to keep her spine aligned properly was really a waste of her time.

 

[Disney Doll]

The difference is in what they mean by subluxation, not just what it causes or doesn't cause. A real subluxation is visible on an x-ray because it's an actual injury, where there has been an actual dislocation. A chiropractic subluxation is not visible on an x-ray because it doesn't exist. When they say subluxation, they are trying to imply that the spine can somehow become slightly mis-aligned and that they can correct it with an adjustment. All of that is nonsense.

If you're interested, there's a pretty good explanation on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subluxation

Sorry but if you are getting your information from Wikipedia, I understand why you think what you think.

You might want to try looking at some reputable medical journals, websites etc.

 

[rie'smom]

Actually, in terms of cleaning up a very nasty wound, maggots do a wonderful job. The problem with them is that they freak people out. But I have had patients come into the hospital with them (nothing like taking off someone's slippers and having a bunch of maggots fall to the floor) but once we get them all cleaned off the skin, I have to tell you, the area where they were is usually beautiful, clean, no goo or anything.

I'd gag if I needed maggots to clean a wound but they work. In fact, I gagged when I read about them falling out of slippers.

 

[4nana]

IMO, like any professional in medical field, there are good and bad. It also goes without saying, chiropractors are not the answer to every ailment.

I love my chiropractor, there are no doubts in my mind that he and his chiro twin brother are 'real' !! Matter of fact, I must not be the only one who thinks they are 'real', as they recently expanded and opened up their 3rd office!

Having gone off and on to several chiros over the past 35 yrs, praise God they have bailed my poor excruciating painful back w/herniated discs, crippling sciatica, and pinched nerves in neck, out of many crisis' in a timely fashion. Whereas the doctors would prefer to cover up my pain w/meds, rather than get to the real root of the problem ailment.

For me the proof is in the pudding, a few sessions occasionally of manipulation, DTS (Decompression Traction System), electrical stim. and ultrasound, does my old body
a world of good . More importantly keeps me out of surgery, pain and med free . That’s good enough for me!!!

Jim24 ~ that's a wonderful story about your DS. Glad you seeked proper care and his issues healed.

 

[palavra]

I think this is pretty clear evidence that most doctors are willing to use whatever treatments work, even if they aren't what you think of as traditional medicine.

Contrary to popular belief, most people aren't opposed to "alternative" medicine simply because it's different. They are opposed to it because it's ineffective.

Or they are opposed to it because they don't understand it or how effective it can be. I lived in Asia for a while and found out a lot abut traditional eastern medicinal practices. There is quite a body of scientifc evidence out there concerning how effective practices such as accupuncture, accupressure, massage, and homeopathic medicine can be.

 

[palavra]

It is not my job to prove that something doesn't work. It is the responsibility of the seller to prove that what they are trying to sell me actually works before I will consider buying it.

Chiropractors have a financial interest in convincing people that their methods are effective. If they haven't provided any scientific evidence that this is true, it's because they cannot. What other possible reason could there be?

Drug companies also have a financial interest in convincing people that their drugs are effective. The difference is that they actually have provided scientific evidence in the form of properly conducted double-blind studies.

When I go to a doctor and they prescribe an antibiotic to treat an infection, the reason I take it is because there is clear scientific evidence that it works. My decision is not based on the fact that there isn't any proof that it doesn't work.

For decades, doctors have been prescribing antibiotics for colds and other viruses and they clearly weren't effective. Today, even for some bacterial infections, such as ear infections, doctors no longer prescribe antibiotics and let nature run it's course. So, even wit scientific studies doctors have in the past misprescribed medications that we now know weren't needed ot effective.

 

[Jennasis]

Had a hip problem.

Week #1 - chiro 3x/week - felt better
Week #2 - chiro 2x/week - continued to feel better
Week#3 - chiro 1x and done - all better - no hip pain

Meanwhile, my friend went to PT for almost a year or a back problem and ended up having surgery...after spending all that time, money and co-pays on PT.

Hmmmm.....

No idea what your friend was or wasn't doing, but for PT to be effective, you have to do the homework and continue your exercises as prescribed at home. I can't tell you how many people I know who complained that PT "didn't work" and when I pressed for info found that they were not doing any of the stuff at home.

Glad your chiro worked for you, but I'll still never let one touch me again. I don't care how wonderful yours, or anyone else's is. My personal experience has shown time and again that it does not work for me and has proven to do far FAR more devastating harm than any possible good.

On a related note, I have found the same with many types of medication. Some people swear by certain meds for their migraines, and I found that NONE of the traditional meds prescribed for migrained prevention worked for me and that all of them made me feel worse. What eventually worked was a rarely used anti-seizure med. I'll never take a Maxalt/Axert/Topamax etc ever again.

 

[declansdad]

It is interesting who many of the people in this thread have had (or no someone who has had) a bad experience with a chiropractor. So in turn, they paint the entire profession as bad. (Sounds a lot like a Dis teacher thread). Yet when a poster states they had a bad experience with a doctor or other health care professional, it must have been because they didn't follow directions. Yet none of these posters has called all doctors shams.

 

[Jennasis]

It is interesting who many of the people in this thread have had (or no someone who has had) a bad experience with a chiropractor. So in turn, they paint the entire profession as bad. (Sounds a lot like a Dis teacher thread). Yet when a poster states they had a bad experience with a doctor or other health care professional, it must have been because they didn't follow directions. Yet none of these posters has called all doctors shams.

I'm sorry...where did this happen (where a bad experience with a doctor was blamed on not following directions)?

I said, I've had people tell me that PT did not work (NOT that PT made things worse or that they had a bad experience with the therapist or doctor) only to find out that they weren't DOING what the doc/therpist prescribed outside of their appointments. You can't take your medicine some of the time and expect to get better.

And tsk all you want. I don't care for chiropractic for any part of my personal healthcare.

 

[Buckalew11]

I get horrible headaches and tried going in for that. I went for the inital consult and the next visit and never went back. After researching it, I learned that there is no empirical evidence to show that chiropractic care has any effect on headaches. I also read that neck adjustments are linked to a higher risk of stroke. I just know that he made everything hurt worse, and I'm pretty sure no human neck should move the way he made mine move. There was not even any warning as to what he was about to do. No thank you!

maybe true...laying back in the shampoo chair at your hairdresser's will also increase your risk of stroke.



I have been blessed with having 2 wonderful chiropractors in my lifetime. I started going when I was 14 and am 45 now. I go as needed (or when I get there). I'm treated for free, I'm not sure why, but I am. Chiropractor #1 has since passed and #2 took over his practice. Both excellent doctors.

I am on my feet all day and I had a case of Morton's Neuroma (sp) in my right foot. I had two clients who had the same problem and had the nerve clipped by a doctor and they both regretted it. So, I went to my chiropractor. Problem fixed. 1 treatment. Crazy.

When I was a teen I'd have cramping every month and I'd see my chirpractor for it. There's a spot on your ankles that takes care of them. why suffer, ya know?

Since my doctor treats me and my whole family for free, I cut his hair for free. I know some people will think this is whacked but I can promise you it is true. When he comes in for a haircut, he can take one look at me and tell me if and where I am hurting--I can have a sweater on and he'll comment, "Better come in and get that elbow looked at."

The OP talked about the doctor putting his finger right on the spot that hurt--mine does that too plus can just look at me a go right for the spot that hurts. I think it is a gift, I really do.

I had my chiropractor work on my before and after I ran my 1/2 marathon. I had no pain--no foot pain, knee pain or anything under his care.
I wouldn't trust any and every chiropractor but I fully trust mine. He's an awesome person.

 

[declansdad]

I'm sorry...where did this happen (where a bad experience with a doctor was blamed on not following directions)?

I said, I've had people tell me that PT did not work (NOT that PT made things worse or that they had a bad experience with the therapist or doctor) only to find out that they weren't DOING what the doc/therpist prescribed outside of their appointments. You can't take your medicine some of the time and expect to get better.

And tsk all you want. I don't care for chiropractic for any part of my personal healthcare.

There is nothing wrong with that but it doesn't mean that all chiropractors are bad.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm sorry...where did this happen (where a bad experience with a doctor was blamed on not following directions)?

I said, I've had people tell me that PT did not work (NOT that PT made things worse or that they had a bad experience with the therapist or doctor) only to find out that they weren't DOING what the doc/therpist prescribed outside of their appointments. You can't take your medicine some of the time and expect to get better.

And tsk all you want. I don't care for chiropractic for any part of my personal healthcare.

I only personally know of one person off hand who had PT that did not work. (I don't personally know too many people who have had PT, mind you ).

By "did not work"--I mean that PT was unable to rehabilitate her. She required surgery. The PT was to see if she could be fixed without it. She had the surgery, and was able to finish the PT and have it finally work.

For your circumstance--you had a condition that chiropractic care not only couldn't fix, but made it worse. That was my mom. I don't let it jade my viewpoint, but I find that for folks in that position, they do let it jade their viewpoint for other people.

I'm not quite certain if you are doing that or not...

But my mom tsks my use of chiropractice care, and I ignore her. I have had MRI's (2x) to confirm that I have nothing going on with my discs. So nothing that could be made worse.

For you and certainly for her--an MRI would have revealed that a chiropractor shouldn't touch. I don't know your full circumstance of why you did not have one, but for her--the military denied her for several years. So according to X-ray, she had nothing going on.


I've had a PT that set the Elec Stim into overdrive and hurt me, but I don't paint all PT's with the broad brush that they are eviland that elec stim should never be used. But it took a long while before I'd let anyone touch me with elec stim.

I was trying chiropractor first for my shoulder...no idea really other than my dh was trying to be nice and find me a PT and found me a combination clinic on our insurance. It really isn't working--so now I am with the therapist (who is really an occupational therapist--but I'm giving it a go!). I really figured it was something deeper than a spinal adjustment can repair.

We did find out that my blessed body is misaligned again--thank you baby #4. And it really isn't holding its position (and I do know why), but now I have to get the shoulder fixed first before I can do the necessary exercises to stabilize my frame.

Anyway, TMI that I had not planned on sharing...

But there ya go!